Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? by Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D. (Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya) From the very earliest dawn of religious consciousness in human beings, people have attempted to approach and know the Divine by the use of various intermediary devices. Such vehicles of worship and meditation have included divine images, sacred relics of saints, and hallowed objects of many descriptions. The use of images as a path through which finite humanity can approach the Infinite has been found in every traditional culture, religion, and nation on earth. The use of images as a way to know the Divine has been the overwhelming norm – and not the exception – in the history of the world's many religions. The almost sole exception to this means of approaching God has occurred in the relatively recent religions of the Western world. For the majority of adherents of the Abrahamic sects (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), the use of images as tools for meditation and prayer has been looked upon as a taboo religious activity. Many Western religions consequently oppose the practice of what they term " idol " worship. The leaders of these Abrahamic sects have repeatedly condemned worshipers who employ images of divine figures as " Devil worshipers " , " idolaters " , " heathens " and " infidels " , among other uncharitable descriptions. Those who use icons as a means of worship have faced persecution, denunciation, and even death at the hands of such " idol " smashers. But is the conscious use of sacred imagery in worship and meditation really to be considered " idol worship " and consequently condemned? Followers of Sanatana Dharma are known to use sacred images as focal points for meditation and worship, and have suffered significant persecution as a result. Are Hindus actually idol worshipers? The concept of an " idol " does not refer merely to any iconographic image that is used in worship. Rather the term " idol " refers specifically to an image that is made up, concocted in the mind of its maker, and then claimed to be a divinity. An idol in the proper sense of the term refers to something that one worships as a result of his or her own whim, and not as a result of the teachings of sacred scriptures. This, however, is not what Hindus are doing when we venerate sacred images. Hindus are not idol worshipers because the images that we employ in worship are not contrived by humans. Rather than " idols " , Hindus worship what are properly called " Murtis " . Murti worship is a divine science revealed to humanity in order to facilitate our closeness to God. Sacred Hindu images are not the fanciful creations of the human imagination. Rather, such sacred images were revealed to Hindu worshipers by sages (Rishis) who have directly experienced the nature of the Divine. To use objects as a focus for devotional prayer and contemplation is perfectly fine, as long as these images are God-revealed. The science of employing divine imagery is found in sacred revealed texts known as the Agamas and Pancaratras. In these texts, the entire science of image veneration is laid out in a logical and reasonable manner. For example there are very exacting specifications for precisely how such images must be created, including the exact dimensions of the images, the rituals necessary to create them, and what sacred mantras must be recited during the process. Indeed, even the exact size of every toe has to be according to certain strict specifications. Only when these images are in accord with these exact specifications do they then become vehicles of the Divine, and proper objects of veneration and meditation. In following these exact requirements of the sacred texts of Sanatana Dharma the worshiper is performing a very special sacred process known as Murti worship, which is categorically distinct from " idol " worship. The term " idol " is a clearly derogatory term used by unthinking followers of anti-Hindu religions to persecute and revile the profound spiritual tradition of Sanatana Dharma. In the same way that other derogatory terms have been removed from civilized human discourse, the term " idol " must never be used again by either Hindus or non-Hindus to refer to the sublime science of Murti worship. Indeed, even Hindus themselves have often been guilty of using the term " idol " in ignorance of the nature of their own religion. Whether the term is used by either Hindus or non-Hindus, the use of the term " idol " to refer to our sacred imagery must be immediately stopped. Rather we must begin to use such proper Sanskrit terms as Murti, Archa, etc. when referring to our sacred imagery. Our own ignorance of our own religion is just as inexcusable as is a non-Hindu's ignorance of our religion. Let us take pride in the divine gift that the Rishis have bestowed upon us in the form of Murti worship. His primary websites are: http://www.dharmacentral.com Regards Dr. Frank Morales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 Hari Om! Hari Om Tat Sat!Dear Frank please accept my respectful pranams!, My-self feels hindus do not exist at all! All religion and caste came from men and not Shri ParamAtman. If a -self- follows the path of vedic dharma, then his/her way of jiva is Hinduism or Dharmic life.I am not sure if all the 18 puranas mention Hindu's nor Hinduism. All jiva's still have to cope with the panja bhuttams whatever "religion" or caste they *think* they belong to?Please correct my-self if what i comment is non-sense.I beg to remain humble to the devotees of the Lord and Lord!SubhamDinamAstu!SarvamSriKrishnaArpanamAstu!drfmrls <no_reply > Sent: Thursday, 21 June, 2007 12:51:33 PM Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? by Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D. (Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya) From the very earliest dawn of religious consciousness in human beings, people have attempted to approach and know the Divine by the use of various intermediary devices. Such vehicles of worship and meditation have included divine images, sacred relics of saints, and hallowed objects of many descriptions. The use of images as a path through which finite humanity can approach the Infinite has been found in every traditional culture, religion, and nation on earth. The use of images as a way to know the Divine has been the overwhelming norm – and not the exception – in the history of the world's many religions. The almost sole exception to this means of approaching God has occurred in the relatively recent religions of the Western world. For the majority of adherents of the Abrahamic sects (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), the use of images as tools for meditation and prayer has been looked upon as a taboo religious activity. Many Western religions consequently oppose the practice of what they term "idol" worship. The leaders of these Abrahamic sects have repeatedly condemned worshipers who employ images of divine figures as "Devil worshipers", "idolaters", "heathens" and "infidels", among other uncharitable descriptions. Those who use icons as a means of worship have faced persecution, denunciation, and even death at the hands of such "idol" smashers. But is the conscious use of sacred imagery in worship and meditation really to be considered "idol worship" and consequently condemned? Followers of Sanatana Dharma are known to use sacred images as focal points for meditation and worship, and have suffered significant persecution as a result. Are Hindus actually idol worshipers? The concept of an "idol" does not refer merely to any iconographic image that is used in worship. Rather the term "idol" refers specifically to an image that is made up, concocted in the mind of its maker, and then claimed to be a divinity. An idol in the proper sense of the term refers to something that one worships as a result of his or her own whim, and not as a result of the teachings of sacred scriptures. This, however, is not what Hindus are doing when we venerate sacred images. Hindus are not idol worshipers because the images that we employ in worship are not contrived by humans. Rather than "idols", Hindus worship what are properly called "Murtis". Murti worship is a divine science revealed to humanity in order to facilitate our closeness to God. Sacred Hindu images are not the fanciful creations of the human imagination. Rather, such sacred images were revealed to Hindu worshipers by sages (Rishis) who have directly experienced the nature of the Divine. To use objects as a focus for devotional prayer and contemplation is perfectly fine, as long as these images are God-revealed. The science of employing divine imagery is found in sacred revealed texts known as the Agamas and Pancaratras. In these texts, the entire science of image veneration is laid out in a logical and reasonable manner. For example there are very exacting specifications for precisely how such images must be created, including the exact dimensions of the images, the rituals necessary to create them, and what sacred mantras must be recited during the process. Indeed, even the exact size of every toe has to be according to certain strict specifications. Only when these images are in accord with these exact specifications do they then become vehicles of the Divine, and proper objects of veneration and meditation. In following these exact requirements of the sacred texts of Sanatana Dharma the worshiper is performing a very special sacred process known as Murti worship, which is categorically distinct from "idol" worship. The term "idol" is a clearly derogatory term used by unthinking followers of anti-Hindu religions to persecute and revile the profound spiritual tradition of Sanatana Dharma. In the same way that other derogatory terms have been removed from civilized human discourse, the term "idol" must never be used again by either Hindus or non-Hindus to refer to the sublime science of Murti worship. Indeed, even Hindus themselves have often been guilty of using the term "idol" in ignorance of the nature of their own religion. Whether the term is used by either Hindus or non-Hindus, the use of the term "idol" to refer to our sacred imagery must be immediately stopped. Rather we must begin to use such proper Sanskrit terms as Murti, Archa, etc. when referring to our sacred imagery. Our own ignorance of our own religion is just as inexcusable as is a non-Hindu's ignorance of our religion. Let us take pride in the divine gift that the Rishis have bestowed upon us in the form of Murti worship. His primary websites are: http://www.dharmace ntral.com Regards Dr. Frank Morales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 From Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa: " Sir " , asked the disciple, " why do we have to go to the temple, when we have the idols of deities and their photographs in the puja rooms of our residences, to which we do our daily puja? " " I shall answer you query in a few minutes. Please go to Mother, and fetch me some water to drink. " The disciple did accordingly, and he brought some drinking water in a brass tumblar. " I asked you water to drink, but why did you bring it in a vessel? " was the next query from the Paramahamsa. " How can I bring it in my hands, would it not spill while I bring it to you? " was the deferred reply. " Now, I am replying to your first question. Listen to me carefully. Our mind is a temple. But however much we stay at home and try to control our minds and pray to God, it will go astray like the proverbial monkeys who jump from tree to tree like the water brought in your bare hands. It will spill, and by the time it reaches me there will be nothing left. On the other hand if one visits the temple the serene and peaceful atmosphere there induces the mind to concentrate on the one point which is God. Not only you get to concentrate on the one point God, it also cleanses your mind, something like the Water in the brass utensil. Do you now realise the importance of a visit to the temple? " (posted on the net) , drfmrls <no_reply wrote: > > Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? > > by Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 dear shivbhakts om namo bhagawate rudraya seeing god in an idol is the first step before realising the god within. when christians worship the idol of a jesus christ on the cross in a church, it is idol worship only. many christians wear the idol of a jesus on a cross in a locket and wear it in their necks. you will find idols of jesus adoring the walls and tables of all homes of christians. in many churches across india, people offer flower garlands to large idols of jesus and mary and offer incence sticks just like the hindus. there is a church in hyderabad where i have seen several rudraksha malas in the neck of the idol of jesus, the reason might be that they found shiva in christ. for a person who has not achieved self realisation, he sees the god in the manifestation or a form i.e. the idol. hence hindus are idol worshippers as much as the christians. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun www.rudraksharemedy.com , Pradeep Balakrishnan <balakrishnanpradeep wrote: > > Hari Om! Hari Om Tat Sat! > > Dear Frank please accept my respectful pranams!, > > My-self feels hindus do not exist at all! All religion and caste came from men and not Shri ParamAtman. If a -self- follows the path of vedic dharma, then his/her way of jiva is Hinduism or Dharmic life. > > I am not sure if all the 18 puranas mention Hindu's nor Hinduism. All jiva's still have to cope with the panja bhuttams whatever " religion " or caste they *think* they belong to? > > Please correct my-self if what i comment is non-sense. > > I beg to remain humble to the devotees of the Lord and Lord! > > SubhamDinamAstu! > SarvamSriKrishnaArpanamAstu! > > > drfmrls <no_reply > > > Thursday, 21 June, 2007 12:51:33 PM > Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? > > > > > > > Are Hindus Idol Worshipers? > > > > by Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D. > > (Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya) > > > > From the very earliest dawn of religious consciousness in human > > beings, people have attempted to approach and know the Divine by the > > use of various intermediary devices. Such vehicles of worship and > > meditation have included divine images, sacred relics of saints, and > > hallowed objects of many descriptions. The use of images as a path > > through which finite humanity can approach the Infinite has been > > found in every traditional culture, religion, and nation on earth. > > The use of images as a way to know the Divine has been the > > overwhelming norm – and not the exception – in the history of the > > world's many religions. > > > > The almost sole exception to this means of approaching God has > > occurred in the relatively recent religions of the Western world. > > For the majority of adherents of the Abrahamic sects (Judaism, > > Christianity, and Islam), the use of images as tools for meditation > > and prayer has been looked upon as a taboo religious activity. Many > > Western religions consequently oppose the practice of what they > > term " idol " worship. The leaders of these Abrahamic sects have > > repeatedly condemned worshipers who employ images of divine figures > > as " Devil worshipers " , " idolaters " , " heathens " and " infidels " , among > > other uncharitable descriptions. Those who use icons as a means of > > worship have faced persecution, denunciation, and even death at the > > hands of such " idol " smashers. But is the conscious use of sacred > > imagery in worship and meditation really to be considered " idol > > worship " and consequently condemned? Followers of Sanatana Dharma > > are known to use sacred images as focal points for meditation and > > worship, and have suffered significant persecution as a result. Are > > Hindus actually idol worshipers? > > > > The concept of an " idol " does not refer merely to any iconographic > > image that is used in worship. Rather the term " idol " refers > > specifically to an image that is made up, concocted in the mind of > > its maker, and then claimed to be a divinity. An idol in the proper > > sense of the term refers to something that one worships as a result > > of his or her own whim, and not as a result of the teachings of > > sacred scriptures. > > > > This, however, is not what Hindus are doing when we venerate sacred > > images. Hindus are not idol worshipers because the images that we > > employ in worship are not contrived by humans. > > > > Rather than " idols " , Hindus worship what are properly > > called " Murtis " . Murti worship is a divine science revealed to > > humanity in order to facilitate our closeness to God. Sacred Hindu > > images are not the fanciful creations of the human imagination. > > Rather, such sacred images were revealed to Hindu worshipers by sages > > (Rishis) who have directly experienced the nature of the Divine. To > > use objects as a focus for devotional prayer and contemplation is > > perfectly fine, as long as these images are God-revealed. > > > > The science of employing divine imagery is found in sacred revealed > > texts known as the Agamas and Pancaratras. In these texts, the > > entire science of image veneration is laid out in a logical and > > reasonable manner. For example there are very exacting > > specifications for precisely how such images must be created, > > including the exact dimensions of the images, the rituals necessary > > to create them, and what sacred mantras must be recited during the > > process. Indeed, even the exact size of every toe has to be > > according to certain strict specifications. Only when these images > > are in accord with these exact specifications do they then become > > vehicles of the Divine, and proper objects of veneration and > > meditation. > > > > In following these exact requirements of the sacred texts of Sanatana > > Dharma the worshiper is performing a very special sacred process > > known as Murti worship, which is categorically distinct from " idol " > > worship. > > > > The term " idol " is a clearly derogatory term used by unthinking > > followers of anti-Hindu religions to persecute and revile the > > profound spiritual tradition of Sanatana Dharma. In the same way > > that other derogatory terms have been removed from civilized human > > discourse, the term " idol " must never be used again by either Hindus > > or non-Hindus to refer to the sublime science of Murti worship. > > > > Indeed, even Hindus themselves have often been guilty of using the > > term " idol " in ignorance of the nature of their own religion. > > Whether the term is used by either Hindus or non-Hindus, the use of > > the term " idol " to refer to our sacred imagery must be immediately > > stopped. Rather we must begin to use such proper Sanskrit terms as > > Murti, Archa, etc. when referring to our sacred imagery. > > > > Our own ignorance of our own religion is just as inexcusable as is a > > non-Hindu's ignorance of our religion. Let us take pride in the > > divine gift that the Rishis have bestowed upon us in the form of > > Murti worship. > > > > His primary websites are: > > > > http://www.dharmace ntral.com > > > > Regards > > Dr. Frank Morales > > > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > #ygrp-text{ > font-family:Georgia; > } > #ygrp-text p{ > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > font-family:Arial; > clear:both;} > #ygrp-vitnav{ > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > padding:0 1px;} > #ygrp-actbar{ > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- align:right;} > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-grft{ > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > #ygrp-ft{ > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > padding:5px 0; > } > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > padding-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-vital{ > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text- transform:uppercase;} > #ygrp-vital ul{ > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > } > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > font-weight:bold;} > #ygrp-vital a { > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #nc { > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > padding:8px 0;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- size:100%;line-height:122%;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > text-decoration:none;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > text-decoration:underline;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > margin:0;} > o {font-size:0;} > .MsoNormal { > margin:0 0 0 0;} > #ygrp-text tt{ > font-size:120%;} > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > .replbq {margin:4;} > --> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 , " panditarjun2004 " <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear shivbhakts > om namo bhagawate rudraya > > seeing god in an idol is the first step before realising the god > within. > > when christians worship the idol of a jesus christ on the cross in a > church, it is idol worship only. many christians wear the idol of a > jesus on a cross in a locket and wear it in their necks. you will > find idols of jesus adoring the walls and tables of all homes of > christians. in many churches across india, people offer flower > garlands to large idols of jesus and mary and offer incence sticks > just like the hindus. there is a church in hyderabad where i have > seen several rudraksha malas in the neck of the idol of jesus, the > reason might be that they found shiva in christ. > > for a person who has not achieved self realisation, he sees the god > in the manifestation or a form i.e. the idol. > > hence hindus are idol worshippers as much as the christians. This is true as far as the Catholics and, perhaps, Orthodox Church is concerned. Protestants pretty much stay away from images of Jesus, or others. They may wear a cross, but I've never seen an image of Jesus on it. They may hang a cross in their Church, but they don't conscientiously pray to it. It is just their for their inspiration, and maybe, whether they realize it or not, adds a " Christian Vaastu " , or " Feng Shui " , to the Sanctuary. Blessings, Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hi Stephen, I think you are missing the point entirely. It's not just about idols - it's about symbolism. And it's just not about praying, it's about association of GOD with an image or symbol we can relate to. If you want to associate with GOD, you need an image, don't you? When you think of GOD as Jesus, the image of Jesus immediately comes to your mind. If one were to say that God was ParaBrahman and that ParaBrahman was everything, everything more and everything else - it would be an abstract concept that few can relate to. Therefore, for those lesser mortals like myself, until we can graduate to the higher level, for association with GOD, we need to have something that symbolizes the same. It could be an idol, which would given a human form. Or it could be a symbol like the Lingam for Shiva or the Cross for Jesus. For those evovled and realized mortals, symbols are no longer necessary as they have attained Brahman. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to correct me, members. This is just a great learning process for me. I am sure other learned members here can dileniate further. Thanks, Vijay --- liberator_9 <liberator_9 wrote: > , > " panditarjun2004 " > <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > > > dear shivbhakts > > om namo bhagawate rudraya > > > > seeing god in an idol is the first step before > realising the god > > within. > > > > when christians worship the idol of a jesus christ > on the cross in > a > > church, it is idol worship only. many christians > wear the idol of > a > > jesus on a cross in a locket and wear it in their > necks. you will > > find idols of jesus adoring the walls and tables > of all homes of > > christians. in many churches across india, people > offer flower > > garlands to large idols of jesus and mary and > offer incence sticks > > just like the hindus. there is a church in > hyderabad where i have > > seen several rudraksha malas in the neck of the > idol of jesus, the > > reason might be that they found shiva in christ. > > > > for a person who has not achieved self > realisation, he sees the god > > in the manifestation or a form i.e. the idol. > > > > hence hindus are idol worshippers as much as the > christians. > > This is true as far as the Catholics and, perhaps, > Orthodox Church is > concerned. Protestants pretty much stay away from > images of Jesus, or > others. They may wear a cross, but I've never seen > an image of Jesus > on it. They may hang a cross in their Church, but > they don't > conscientiously pray to it. It is just their for > their inspiration, > and maybe, whether they realize it or not, adds a > " Christian Vaastu " , > or " Feng Shui " , to the Sanctuary. > > Blessings, > Stephen > > ______________________________\ ____ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search./search?fr=oni_on_mail & p=summer+activities+for+kids & cs=bz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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