Witzel on Elst

[Guest guest]

--- Bruce Duffy <bruceduffy72 wrote:

 

> Dear Phillip, after reading your message I borrowed

> the Bryant-Patton (editors) book you refer to below

> from Monash University.

 

Where is that, incidentally?

 

> and download the pdf file Autochthonous Aryans. Much

> of what Michael argues in the article you requested

> appears to be covered (including criticisms of

> Elst's arguments) in that earlier pdf file. I will

> also try to send you a summary of Michael's

> criticisms of Elst's arguments from the article you

> requested.

 

I'm very grateful for the trouble you've gone to; yes,

don't copy the article if you don't think you should.

The web page to which you have referred me seems very

rich, certainly there must be everything necessary for

a decent understanding of the one side of the debate.

 

> I am fascinated by what is now sometimes referred to

> as the " Aryan Debate " . A debate that I believe,

> after reading Bryant's most comprehensive and

> largely unbiased book on the subject (The Quest for

> the Origins of Vedic Culture) is far from resolved.

 

This calls to mind a quote of Elst's: " From the

beginning, I have been puzzled by the immense

certainty on both sides of the debate. To me, it's an

open-ended search. "

 

Thanks very much for this internet lead (always useful

to me, who have only an hour a day for the internet),

and generally for your thoughtful reply.

 

Phillip

Pune

 

 

 

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Go to

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[Guest guest]

Hi Phillip, Monash University is in Melbourne Australia. About two years ago as

a mature age student I finished a Bachelor of Arts degree with Honours (in

Religion and History) at Monash.

 

If time permits me I would like to continue on and do a Masters or PhD. related

to the question of whether in relation to ancient IE speaking societies the

term IE can be used to designate the like cultures those societies appear to

have had, and not just refer to the group of related languages they spoke.

 

Yes it should be an open ended search as some big questions that have undermined

the arguments of both sides still remain unanswered. For example the Aryan

names for most rivers in north western India being IA derived names, and the

almost total absence of horse bones being found in relation to the Harappan

civilization. But as intense and as ugly as the Debate can become it also means

that any argument raised in relation to it is put under very close scrutiny. For

a while, with the general rejection of the AIT theory it looked as if those

arguing the Aryans came from outside of India had lost the day, but they have

rallied in recent times and have kept the Debate very much alive.

 

There is also the other aspect of the debate that adds to its intensity, which

is that a victory for the indigenous to India case could lead to Hindu

Nationalist claims for Indian sovereignty over areas of Pakistan.

 

I am happy to hear you have enough to go on as Michael Witzel's article is quite

long and would take some time to copy. I have not checked any online catalogues,

but I expect any big Universities in India would have the Bryant-Patton book in

their library.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

 

Phillip Ernest <yadbhavisyati wrote:

--- Bruce Duffy <bruceduffy72 wrote:

 

> Dear Phillip, after reading your message I borrowed

> the Bryant-Patton (editors) book you refer to below

> from Monash University.

 

Where is that, incidentally?

 

> and download the pdf file Autochthonous Aryans. Much

> of what Michael argues in the article you requested

> appears to be covered (including criticisms of

> Elst's arguments) in that earlier pdf file. I will

> also try to send you a summary of Michael's

> criticisms of Elst's arguments from the article you

> requested.

 

I'm very grateful for the trouble you've gone to; yes,

don't copy the article if you don't think you should.

The web page to which you have referred me seems very

rich, certainly there must be everything necessary for

a decent understanding of the one side of the debate.

 

> I am fascinated by what is now sometimes referred to

> as the " Aryan Debate " . A debate that I believe,

> after reading Bryant's most comprehensive and

> largely unbiased book on the subject (The Quest for

> the Origins of Vedic Culture) is far from resolved.

 

This calls to mind a quote of Elst's: " From the

beginning, I have been puzzled by the immense

certainty on both sides of the debate. To me, it's an

open-ended search. "

 

Thanks very much for this internet lead (always useful

to me, who have only an hour a day for the internet),

and generally for your thoughtful reply.

 

Phillip

Pune

 

Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Go to

http://in.messenger./webmessengerpromo.php

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> --- Bruce Duffy <bruceduffy72 wrote:

>

> > Dear Phillip, after reading your message I borrowed

> > the Bryant-Patton (editors) book you refer to below

> > from Monash University.

 

Dear Phillip and Bruce,

 

Both the books of Bryant mentioned by you are available online,

though of limited preview.

 

Incidentally, I was trying to paraphrase and review on Bryant's

earlier book on my group AncientIndia.

 

Bryant is a very good point to start with on AI, since he presents

both sides of the coins very dispassionately.

 

coming to the seals of the Indus, it is possible that the seals are

no more than merchant seals, but for the famous signboard.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

[Guest guest]

Dear Kishore, I am sorry I have not answered you earlier.

 

Yes the Bryant book The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture is a very

comprehensive and unbiased assessment of the Aryan debate as it stands, and a

must read for anyone wishing to become familiar with that debate. It would be

interesting to read your review of his work when it is finished.

 

I am presently writing an article which I hope to submit to EJVS about the

significance of the article The Collapse of the Indus-Script Thesis [EJVS 11 -

2 (2004) pp.19-57] in relation to the Aryan Debate.

 

If you are unfamiliar with EJVS you can download the The Collapse of the

Indus-Script Thesis from Michael Witzel's Web page

 

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm

 

All the best, Bruce

 

kishore <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > ---

Bruce Duffy <bruceduffy72 wrote:

>

> > Dear Phillip, after reading your message I borrowed

> > the Bryant-Patton (editors) book you refer to below

> > from Monash University.

 

Dear Phillip and Bruce,

 

Both the books of Bryant mentioned by you are available online,

though of limited preview.

 

Incidentally, I was trying to paraphrase and review on Bryant's

earlier book on my group AncientIndia.

 

Bryant is a very good point to start with on AI, since he presents

both sides of the coins very dispassionately.

 

coming to the seals of the Indus, it is possible that the seals are

no more than merchant seals, but for the famous signboard.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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