Fwd: [tied] Fwd: Phonetic change lo-no in some languages

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---------- Forwarded message ----------Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotrSat, Mar 22, 2008 at 2:09 AM

Re: [tied] Fwd: Phonetic change lo-no in some languagescybalist

 

 

 

 

On 2008-03-21 17:58, Kishore patnaik wrote:

 

> I am struggling to find an answer to this problem related to Santali

> and many languages of India.

>

> lo = nine (Santali)

> noe = nine (Bengali); no_~ = nine (Lahnd.a, Punjabi)

>

> I am told that l-n interchanges are recorded in Pushto and Assamese.

 

But Assamese has <na> 'nine' (the Pashto word sounds almost the same)

and I'm not aware of any Modern Indo-Aryan or Iranian language with an

initial /l/ in this numeral. You evidently took this word from

Kalyaranaman who'd found it God knows where (I can't check his

reference), but the normal Santali word for 'nine' is <are>, an expected

reflex of the Proto-Munda numeral.

 

> My problem is deeper. There is an early word for nine in Sanskrit

> (Vedic), also attested in Kikkuli's horse training manual (ca. 1700

> BCE); the word is 'nava'. What could have been the early phonetic

> form of the word for nine? Was it lo or no?

 

PIE *newn. > PIIr. *nawa. The Mitanni-Aryan, Vedic, Assamese, Pashto,

Bengali, etc. words all derive from it.

 

Piotr

 

 

 

-- Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within the reach of every hand.~:~ Mother Theresa ~:~

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---------- Forwarded message ----------Richard Wordingham <richard

Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 4:16 AMRe: [tied] Fwd: Phonetic change lo-no in some languagescybalist

 

 

 

 

cybalist , Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr wrote:

>

> On 2008-03-21 17:58, Kishore patnaik wrote:

>

> > I am struggling to find an answer to this problem related to Santali

> > and many languages of India.

> >

> > lo = nine (Santali)

> > noe = nine (Bengali); no_~ = nine (Lahnd.a, Punjabi)

> >

> > I am told that l-n interchanges are recorded in Pushto and Assamese.

>

> But Assamese has <na> 'nine' (the Pashto word sounds almost the same)

> and I'm not aware of any Modern Indo-Aryan or Iranian language with an

> initial /l/ in this numeral. You evidently took this word from

> Kalyaranaman who'd found it God knows where (I can't check his

> reference), but the normal Santali word for 'nine' is <are>, an

expected

> reflex of the Proto-Munda numeral.

 

Looking at Mark Rosenfelder's list (

http://www.zompist.com/numbers.htm ), I see that Birhor has /la:/ for

nine. Several Munda languages use the Indic numerals from '5' to

'10', including Birhor. I suggest you consider the possibility of a

Birhor-specific change n > l (possibly conditional, judging by its

retention in _punia_ '4'). I can't find any other sources to verify

this form, so it is even conceivable that /la:/ is a typographical

error for /na:/!

 

Richard.

 

 

 

-- Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within the reach of every hand.~:~ Mother Theresa ~:~

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---------- Forwarded message ----------fournet.arnaud <fournet.arnaudMar 22, 2008 3:55 PM

Re: [tied] Fwd: Phonetic change lo-no in some languagescybalist

 

 

 

 

- Rick McCallister cybalist

Friday, March 21, 2008 10:56 PMRe: [tied] Fwd: Phonetic change lo-no in some languagesSo perhaps they were counting by placing the thumbagainst each finger in turn?===========

I have also read thatthe odd bases 12 and 60 can derivefrom the fact that :one hand has 4 fingers of 3 knuckleshence 12and the other hand has 5 fingersso 5 * 12 = 60Arnaud===============

-- Love is a fruit in season at all times,

and within the reach of every hand.~:~ Mother Theresa ~:~