Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, clinging to them with might. Some were crying, some looking strangely at them, others fixing the outfits and accessories on them. I must say, I found this quite bizarre. Is this a common practice? Also, in listening to the speech given by Amma, I noticed reference to her knowing all thoughts and feelings of everyone. She also made statements about devotees praying to her and reciting her name over and over. As a new visitor, it appeared that she was claiming omnipresence and how she is always with her devotees. In viewing literature and organizational information, Amma appears to be described as a humanitarian. Nothing is mentioned about her being all knowing that was described in the talk. Which is it? As a new visitor, it seemed as if they verbally stated things that they didn't want you to know about. Is she God or just a wonderful humanitarian? Very confusing. Well, finally I went into the Darshan line for my much anticipated hug. In this line I was handled quite roughly and pushed along by people who where either very irritated or just plain unhappy. By the time they pushed me into Amma, I was so frazzled that I sort of fell onto her. She didn't look at me, however, did carry on a conversation with some folks around her while hugging me. She whispered something in my ear and let me go. I looked at her, however, she was still talking. Next thing, I woman pulled me up from the ground and scooted me out of the way to keep moving. After this, I was a bit disappointed. I made my way to the back area only to find so many items for sale. I saw the dolls that i had seen people carrying around all evening for a few hundred dollars. There were all types of trinkets for sale, stickers, incense, anything and everything with Amma's face on it. Once again, speaking as a new visitor, this seemed like a flea market rather than a spiritual event. Someone please tell me about these customs. I realize that the money is used for charity, however, when preaching that the absence of material possesions is important for growth, why such marketing for the purchase of material goods? Am I alone in these thoughts? Perhaps someone would like to explain why so many people are so visibly miserable and rude during the program and why there is so much marketing of items? I thought people would seem more peaceful and treat others nicely here. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Amma has never claimed to be omnipresent or omni anything. All these are stories circulated by her followers. They may be true. Or not. You can believe it if you wish. Or not. I personally discount most of what I hear about Amma. As for the assembly line process, you can work out the math. If Amma gives 2000 hugs a day, and each hug takes an additional 10 seconds, then that adds a total of 20,000 seconds to the program (which is over 5 hours). So yes, this process is like a production line churning out sausages. Every second gained makes a difference. As for selling trinkets and stuff, why should a flea market be considered unspiritual? It is merely a mechanism to allow for a peaceful transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who don't. People give up their money willingly to buy things that they value (unlike taxes, where we give money to the govt. unwillingly). So it is a win-win situation. There is no force involved here. Did somebody ask you for money? Why are people " so visibly miserable and rude " , you ask? If they weren't, then they wouldn't need to go to Amma. Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65 wrote: > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, > clinging to them with might. Some were crying, some looking strangely > at them, others fixing the outfits and accessories on them. I must > say, I found this quite bizarre. Is this a common practice? Also, in > listening to the speech given by Amma, I noticed reference to her > knowing all thoughts and feelings of everyone. She also made > statements about devotees praying to her and reciting her name over > and over. As a new visitor, it appeared that she was claiming > omnipresence and how she is always with her devotees. In viewing > literature and organizational information, Amma appears to be > described as a humanitarian. Nothing is mentioned about her being all > knowing that was described in the talk. Which is it? As a new visitor, > it seemed as if they verbally stated things that they didn't want you > to know about. Is she God or just a wonderful humanitarian? Very > confusing. Well, finally I went into the Darshan line for my much > anticipated hug. In this line I was handled quite roughly and pushed > along by people who where either very irritated or just plain unhappy. > By the time they pushed me into Amma, I was so frazzled that I sort of > fell onto her. She didn't look at me, however, did carry on a > conversation with some folks around her while hugging me. She > whispered something in my ear and let me go. I looked at her, however, > she was still talking. Next thing, I woman pulled me up from the > ground and scooted me out of the way to keep moving. After this, I was > a bit disappointed. I made my way to the back area only to find so > many items for sale. I saw the dolls that i had seen people carrying > around all evening for a few hundred dollars. There were all types of > trinkets for sale, stickers, incense, anything and everything with > Amma's face on it. Once again, speaking as a new visitor, this seemed > like a flea market rather than a spiritual event. Someone please tell > me about these customs. I realize that the money is used for charity, > however, when preaching that the absence of material possesions is > important for growth, why such marketing for the purchase of material > goods? Am I alone in these thoughts? Perhaps someone would like to > explain why so many people are so visibly miserable and rude during > the program and why there is so much marketing of items? I thought > people would seem more peaceful and treat others nicely here. Woody > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Dear Woody, Sorry for your rough experience. I cannot address that for you and of course, treating anyone rudely is never ok to do. As far as not knowing where to go, a " greeter " should have met with you to assist on where to sit and the program structure. Unfortunately, it sounds like you fell between the cracks. Amma is different things to different people and if you read anything, SHE makes NO claims about herself. Only that people enjoy the presence of a Satguru-that a Satguru is irresistable. Everything sold helps Tsunami victims, Katrina, AIMS hospitals, orphanages, villages and much much more. Nothing is for profit. Many devotees like having the dolls and prasad, books and tapes during the year while away from Amma. It is not unusual at all for anything to be sold as many churches also sell books, statues, items etc for followers to have to remind them of their beloved. I grew up Catholic ((attending parochial schools thru highschool) and there was even a Catholic store in town. (still are) I know the line has to keep moving so often the people around Amma do pull people, in attempts to help them up usually rather than trying to be " rude " . However, your experience is what it is. Amma is not everyone's " guru " however no matter what She is to anyone, Her mission and humanitarian efforts have received worldwide acclaim. She is probably the greatest living humanitarian now-and possibly ever. peace, and in Amma, adriane Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65 wrote: > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 dear beloved sibling,tmba understand's your point in what you are saying about AMMA making no claims and this is beautiful,however if you read HER bio and also HER AWAKEN CHILDREN book series your awareness may increase as to what AMMA has claimed or hasn't claimed over the years. thankyou so much beloved sibling.. > " labd2929 " <labd2929 >Ammachi >Ammachi > Re: First visit with Amma >Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:53:14 -0000 > >Amma has never claimed to be omnipresent or omni anything. All these >are stories circulated by her followers. They may be true. Or not. >You can believe it if you wish. Or not. I personally discount most >of what I hear about Amma. > >As for the assembly line process, you can work out the math. If Amma >gives 2000 hugs a day, and each hug takes an additional 10 seconds, >then that adds a total of 20,000 seconds to the program (which is over >5 hours). So yes, this process is like a production line churning out >sausages. Every second gained makes a difference. > >As for selling trinkets and stuff, why should a flea market be >considered unspiritual? It is merely a mechanism to allow for a >peaceful transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who don't. > People give up their money willingly to buy things that they value >(unlike taxes, where we give money to the govt. unwillingly). So it >is a win-win situation. There is no force involved here. Did >somebody ask you for money? > >Why are people " so visibly miserable and rude " , you ask? If they >weren't, then they wouldn't need to go to Amma. > > > > > >Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65 wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a > > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the > > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen > > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me > > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar > > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion > > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, > > clinging to them with might. Some were crying, some looking strangely > > at them, others fixing the outfits and accessories on them. I must > > say, I found this quite bizarre. Is this a common practice? Also, in > > listening to the speech given by Amma, I noticed reference to her > > knowing all thoughts and feelings of everyone. She also made > > statements about devotees praying to her and reciting her name over > > and over. As a new visitor, it appeared that she was claiming > > omnipresence and how she is always with her devotees. In viewing > > literature and organizational information, Amma appears to be > > described as a humanitarian. Nothing is mentioned about her being all > > knowing that was described in the talk. Which is it? As a new visitor, > > it seemed as if they verbally stated things that they didn't want you > > to know about. Is she God or just a wonderful humanitarian? Very > > confusing. Well, finally I went into the Darshan line for my much > > anticipated hug. In this line I was handled quite roughly and pushed > > along by people who where either very irritated or just plain unhappy. > > By the time they pushed me into Amma, I was so frazzled that I sort of > > fell onto her. She didn't look at me, however, did carry on a > > conversation with some folks around her while hugging me. She > > whispered something in my ear and let me go. I looked at her, however, > > she was still talking. Next thing, I woman pulled me up from the > > ground and scooted me out of the way to keep moving. After this, I was > > a bit disappointed. I made my way to the back area only to find so > > many items for sale. I saw the dolls that i had seen people carrying > > around all evening for a few hundred dollars. There were all types of > > trinkets for sale, stickers, incense, anything and everything with > > Amma's face on it. Once again, speaking as a new visitor, this seemed > > like a flea market rather than a spiritual event. Someone please tell > > me about these customs. I realize that the money is used for charity, > > however, when preaching that the absence of material possesions is > > important for growth, why such marketing for the purchase of material > > goods? Am I alone in these thoughts? Perhaps someone would like to > > explain why so many people are so visibly miserable and rude during > > the program and why there is so much marketing of items? I thought > > people would seem more peaceful and treat others nicely here. Woody > > > > _______________ http://newlivehotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Well said. I remember the first time I went to see Amma it was like walking into a whole new world. For me it was a totally different experience. I have had people complain to me about grumpy attitudes and rough handling of the assistants in line and I tell them that these people are only human, and are here to help. While we are walking around, enjoying ourselves, they are working, and working hard. They have been asked tons of questions and may just be weary and tired. They are trying to minimize the wear and tear on Amma. So if we are pushed or prodded, it is because we need to make sure we are not taking up more time and space than we need to see Amma. The helpers are very protective of Amma's body. A friend complained that they would not let her " hug " Amma back. But let's think about this...Can you imagine hundreds of people yanking on you for hours on end? Whenever I hear a complaint like that I say THINK OF AMMA... And cut some slack for these good people who are trying to control the huge numbers pushing forward to see Mother. Just turn your thinking around and you will have your answer. As for the bookstore, I always make sure to save and bring as much money as I can with me to spend and donate at Amma's programs. I think it is a fabulous way to give and get something valuable in return. They are not selling handy dandy can opener/fish scalers! And there is absolutely NO pressure to spend or buy. There are spiritual books, music, photos, meditation tools for sale. There is merchandise for sale made by people in Amma's programs in India. It is a pleasure to be able to buy a bag sewn by a woman who is learning a trade on a sewing machine gifted to her by Amma, so that she can support her family! Again, turn your thinking around. Go deeper with your questions. Take some time to think it out, and if you do decide to go back next year, I think you will find your reaction to what is going on around Amma will be different. Love, mare On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:53:14 -0000 " labd2929 " <labd2929 writes: > Amma has never claimed to be omnipresent or omni anything. All > these are stories circulated by her followers. They may be true. Or not. > You can believe it if you wish. Or not. I personally discount > most of what I hear about Amma. > As for the assembly line process, you can work out the math. If > Amma gives 2000 hugs a day, and each hug takes an additional 10 seconds, > then that adds a total of 20,000 seconds to the program (which is > over 5 hours). So yes, this process is like a production line churning > out sausages. Every second gained makes a difference. > As for selling trinkets and stuff, why should a flea market be > considered unspiritual? It is merely a mechanism to allow for a > peaceful transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who > don't. People give up their money willingly to buy things that they value > (unlike taxes, where we give money to the govt. unwillingly). So > it is a win-win situation. There is no force involved here. Did > somebody ask you for money? > > Why are people " so visibly miserable and rude " , you ask? If they > weren't, then they wouldn't need to go to Amma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Thank you for your lovely advice. I don't feel the need to read anything about what Amma claims or doesn't claim. My love for her will remain the same regardless. So I don't bother with that anymore. Ammachi , " temba spirits " <tembaspirits wrote: > > dear beloved sibling,tmba understand's your point in what you are saying > about AMMA making no claims and this is beautiful,however if you read HER > bio and also HER AWAKEN CHILDREN book series your awareness may increase as > to what AMMA has claimed or hasn't claimed over the years. > > thankyou so much beloved sibling.. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 I heard Swami Amritaswarupananda declare in Dearborn, Michigan that " Amma is India's greatest prophet Krishna. " Amma was sitting there just behind and next to him on the stage. Another man who made an introduction one night referred to Amma thusly: " She is Bharat Mata, Mother India. " I had never heard these appelations made in public before that time, just a few years ago. That's fine if Amma doesn't want to make claims about herself, but should others be pointing at the moon saying it is the moon? Or can we all see that for ourselves if we need to? P. Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > Dear Woody, > Sorry for your rough experience. I cannot address that for you and of > course, treating anyone rudely is never ok to do. As far as not > knowing where to go, a " greeter " should have met with you to assist > on where to sit and the program structure. Unfortunately, it sounds > like you fell between the cracks. > > Amma is different things to different people and if you read > anything, SHE makes NO claims about herself. Only that people enjoy > the presence of a Satguru-that a Satguru is irresistable. > > Everything sold helps Tsunami victims, Katrina, AIMS hospitals, > orphanages, villages and much much more. Nothing is for profit. Many > devotees like having the dolls and prasad, books and tapes during the > year while away from Amma. It is not unusual at all for anything to > be sold as many churches also sell books, statues, items etc for > followers to have to remind them of their beloved. I grew up Catholic > ((attending parochial schools thru highschool) and there was even a > Catholic store in town. (still are) > > I know the line has to keep moving so often the people around Amma do > pull people, in attempts to help them up usually rather than trying > to be " rude " . However, your experience is what it is. Amma is not > everyone's " guru " however no matter what She is to anyone, Her > mission and humanitarian efforts have received worldwide acclaim. She > is probably the greatest living humanitarian now-and possibly ever. > > peace, > and in Amma, > adriane > > > Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65@> wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program > as a > > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through > the > > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had > seen > > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at > me > > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not > familiar > > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much > compassion > > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling > Amma, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi Woody, Sounds as if your first experience was disappointing. My first experience around Amma resembled some of your first encounter's aspects. I recall wondering why one person in particular, who seemed to have such a bad attitiude, would be doing service so close to a saint! After later experiences with this person, I would reitterate the earlier post, that this person needs to be with Amma. I heard second hand that Amma said just because someone is close to her, doesn't mean they are more spiritually advanced than others. But, that she may need to keep them under control! (There seemed to be some humor in this statement.) Also, many of us can attest that our negativities arise around Amma. Amma once said she shows us our faults, so we can work on them. This is how I feel when mine come up around Amma. It's also writen that these things come up in the presence of a master, so that they can remove our negative qualities. Kind of like squeezing the puss from an infected wound. I believe I've experienced something like this with Amma. My feeling is that people can be extremely challenging & trigger us in Amma's presence. But, that this offers a chance to work on ourselves, & maybe these are tests. It's easy to feel peaceful while alone in a room meditating, right? But, not as easy when we're being pushed & tugged & feel we're being treated down right rudely. Amma teaches that it's best for us to find our peace & bliss within, regardless of outside circumstances. The rule of thumb I'ev heard is that people can leacve their seats for 20 minutes, & then we can move their things. I sure identify with the disappointment & frustration of seeing so many empty " taken " seats. The first time I had Amma's darshan, she also seemed to ignore me. I was feeling aggitated by the large crowd before Amma's darshan. While in Amma's lap, I prayed for Amma to help me to find God. Spontaneously, I thought it's (life is) so hard. After Amma's darshan, I realized I was smiling & loving everybody ... the same crowd of people that had previously disturbed me. Regarding omnipresence, it's quite comon for people to have experinces with Amma that suggest this, such as smelling Amma when physically away from Amma. Others report seeing Amma when she's somewhere else, (visions & otherwise), etc .... There are many instances of amma comenting on what is happening elsewhere. As for Amma dolls, I can speak for mine. It cost about $5, & I wanted it so I could hold it close to my heart. A person who follows another Hindu path said that my Amma doll seemed to be my deity. it helps me to feel closer to Amma. BTW, Amma gave me a mantra the 2nd time I saw her, & she looked directly into my eyes. It was an amazing experience Each time with Amma is diffferent. Hope this helps & that your next experience feels better. Sweta Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Woody, Thanks for sharing. Your honesty is sweet and it sounds like your experience was not that favorable. I would urge you to try Amma again and see if things have changed. When I first walked into the large hotel room where Amma was giving darshan, I thought the whole thing was a cult. My first urge was to run, but I had heard so much about Amma so I stuck around. I went up to Bhagavan Das (BD), who is a devotee of Amma and who told me some amazing stories about her, and I asked him- " Who is Amma? " Now he could have said " She's a great soul " or " She's a Hindu Saint " or " She's a great being. " But he didn't say that at all. He said " She's the Divine Mother - She's the Love in your heart. " So I asked him - what about all this stuff, pointing the the back of the room at the bookstore and at the people dressed in white bowing down to Amma? And BD said, just forget about that stuff, just go get the hug and see what happens. Darshan is the proof of the pudding. So with some trepidation, I went up to get the hug, and afterwards I looked around and thought - " What a beautiful scene " and I felt like I loved everyone in the room. So everyone's experience is different, and It seems like Amma often mirrors what is going on inside of me - sometimes she " seems " indifferent, sometimes she seems joyous and warm, but it's hard to judge the quality of the hug by her demeanor, and even calling it a hug is a misnomer, because so much beyond what we know is involved in that embrace. It's only by getting hugs over a period of time does one (at least in my case) start to get an inkling of what Amma is doing and the changes she invokes by giving people the squeeze. My two centavos. Peace! -Achyut Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65 wrote: > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, > clinging to them with might. Some were crying, some looking strangely > at them, others fixing the outfits and accessories on them. I must > say, I found this quite bizarre. Is this a common practice? Also, in > listening to the speech given by Amma, I noticed reference to her > knowing all thoughts and feelings of everyone. She also made > statements about devotees praying to her and reciting her name over > and over. As a new visitor, it appeared that she was claiming > omnipresence and how she is always with her devotees. In viewing > literature and organizational information, Amma appears to be > described as a humanitarian. Nothing is mentioned about her being all > knowing that was described in the talk. Which is it? As a new visitor, > it seemed as if they verbally stated things that they didn't want you > to know about. Is she God or just a wonderful humanitarian? Very > confusing. Well, finally I went into the Darshan line for my much > anticipated hug. In this line I was handled quite roughly and pushed > along by people who where either very irritated or just plain unhappy. > By the time they pushed me into Amma, I was so frazzled that I sort of > fell onto her. She didn't look at me, however, did carry on a > conversation with some folks around her while hugging me. She > whispered something in my ear and let me go. I looked at her, however, > she was still talking. Next thing, I woman pulled me up from the > ground and scooted me out of the way to keep moving. After this, I was > a bit disappointed. I made my way to the back area only to find so > many items for sale. I saw the dolls that i had seen people carrying > around all evening for a few hundred dollars. There were all types of > trinkets for sale, stickers, incense, anything and everything with > Amma's face on it. Once again, speaking as a new visitor, this seemed > like a flea market rather than a spiritual event. Someone please tell > me about these customs. I realize that the money is used for charity, > however, when preaching that the absence of material possesions is > important for growth, why such marketing for the purchase of material > goods? Am I alone in these thoughts? Perhaps someone would like to > explain why so many people are so visibly miserable and rude during > the program and why there is so much marketing of items? I thought > people would seem more peaceful and treat others nicely here. Woody > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 dear beloved sibling,everyone is entitled to express what they see and what they feel.you are doing just that in your making your point as tmba is doing in making his point now..while we make these points ,AMMA is still serving and so are those who are close to HER.that is close to HER physically,spiritually ,or both. when personalitys do great things,others have great things to say about them.if you had hugged over 23 million people in the last 20 years,people would say the same about you... right or wrong is not the point really.it's more about just accepting a respecting the way people see...don't you agree beloved siblings? > " parzival35 " <parzival2 >Ammachi >Ammachi > Re: First visit with Amma >Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:56:11 -0000 > >I heard Swami Amritaswarupananda declare in Dearborn, Michigan that > " Amma is India's greatest prophet Krishna. " Amma was sitting there >just behind and next to him on the stage. > >Another man who made an introduction one night referred to Amma >thusly: " She is Bharat Mata, Mother India. " > >I had never heard these appelations made in public before that time, >just a few years ago. > >That's fine if Amma doesn't want to make claims about herself, but >should others be pointing at the moon saying it is the moon? Or can >we all see that for ourselves if we need to? > >P. > >Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > > > Dear Woody, > > Sorry for your rough experience. I cannot address that for you and of > > course, treating anyone rudely is never ok to do. As far as not > > knowing where to go, a " greeter " should have met with you to assist > > on where to sit and the program structure. Unfortunately, it sounds > > like you fell between the cracks. > > > > Amma is different things to different people and if you read > > anything, SHE makes NO claims about herself. Only that people enjoy > > the presence of a Satguru-that a Satguru is irresistable. > > > > Everything sold helps Tsunami victims, Katrina, AIMS hospitals, > > orphanages, villages and much much more. Nothing is for profit. Many > > devotees like having the dolls and prasad, books and tapes during the > > year while away from Amma. It is not unusual at all for anything to > > be sold as many churches also sell books, statues, items etc for > > followers to have to remind them of their beloved. I grew up Catholic > > ((attending parochial schools thru highschool) and there was even a > > Catholic store in town. (still are) > > > > I know the line has to keep moving so often the people around Amma do > > pull people, in attempts to help them up usually rather than trying > > to be " rude " . However, your experience is what it is. Amma is not > > everyone's " guru " however no matter what She is to anyone, Her > > mission and humanitarian efforts have received worldwide acclaim. She > > is probably the greatest living humanitarian now-and possibly ever. > > > > peace, > > and in Amma, > > adriane > > > > > > Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > > > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program > > as a > > > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > > > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > > > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through > > the > > > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had > > seen > > > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > > > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > > > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at > > me > > > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > > > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > > > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > > > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > > > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > > > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > > > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > > > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > > > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > > > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not > > familiar > > > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much > > compassion > > > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > > > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > > > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling > > Amma, > > > _______________ http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 well dear love,one thing that tmba learned in reading AMMAs words with an open heart is this ,AMMA says that to truly love HER is to love everyone with that same love....so that means that you love tmba with that same AMMA love.that fillls this heart with joy... the reason that tmba suggest that you be OPEN to learning more about this topic is because what you said abot AMMA " never " making that claim was just not true. AMMA SAYS THAT SHE BEHOLDS THE SELF IN EVERYTHING.SHE HAS SAID THAT SHE SEES EVERYTHING AS HERSELF.ANOTHER WAY TO SAY THAT IS OMNIPRESENT... ...and don't forget you say that your love for AMMA won't change ,so in THAT, you will always love tmba and others with that same AMMA love,correct dear beloved sibling? > " labd2929 " <labd2929 >Ammachi >Ammachi > Re: First visit with Amma >Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:43:52 -0000 > >Thank you for your lovely advice. I don't feel the need to read >anything about what Amma claims or doesn't claim. My love for her >will remain the same regardless. So I don't bother with that anymore. > >Ammachi , " temba spirits " <tembaspirits wrote: > > > > dear beloved sibling,tmba understand's your point in what you are >saying > > about AMMA making no claims and this is beautiful,however if you >read HER > > bio and also HER AWAKEN CHILDREN book series your awareness may >increase as > > to what AMMA has claimed or hasn't claimed over the years. > > > > thankyou so much beloved sibling.. > > > > > > > _______________ http://liveearth.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Thanks for your thoughts. But really Amma does not go around making claims to the world about who She " IS. " She is incredibly humble and yes a Satguru. That is true. But she does not make what would be called " claims " about her state for us to bow down to her-and this is what it was about. She bows down to all of her children instead seeing God in all of us. She has said She resides in all of our hearts. I still cannot figure out who Amma really is in spite of all of this. The mind will never cooperate on this one! grin... adriane Ammachi , " temba spirits " <tembaspirits wrote: > > well dear love,one thing that tmba learned in reading AMMAs words with an > open heart is this ,AMMA says that to truly love HER is to love everyone > with that same love....so that means that you love tmba with that same AMMA > love.that fillls this heart with joy... > > the reason that tmba suggest that you be OPEN to learning more about this > topic is because what you said abot AMMA " never " making that claim was just > not true. > > AMMA SAYS THAT SHE BEHOLDS THE SELF IN EVERYTHING.SHE HAS SAID THAT SHE SEES > EVERYTHING AS HERSELF.ANOTHER WAY TO SAY THAT IS OMNIPRESENT... > > ..and don't forget you say that your love for AMMA won't change ,so in > THAT, you will always love tmba and others with that same AMMA love,correct > dear beloved sibling? > > > > " labd2929 " <labd2929 > >Ammachi > >Ammachi > > Re: First visit with Amma > >Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:43:52 -0000 > > > >Thank you for your lovely advice. I don't feel the need to read > >anything about what Amma claims or doesn't claim. My love for her > >will remain the same regardless. So I don't bother with that anymore. > > > >Ammachi , " temba spirits " <tembaspirits@> wrote: > > > > > > dear beloved sibling,tmba understand's your point in what you are > >saying > > > about AMMA making no claims and this is beautiful,however if you > >read HER > > > bio and also HER AWAKEN CHILDREN book series your awareness may > >increase as > > > to what AMMA has claimed or hasn't claimed over the years. > > > > > > thankyou so much beloved sibling.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________ > http://liveearth.msn.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 A very natural reaction for many fist timers who have gone to see Amma especially if that day had a huge crowds. If you look back into your thoughts and experience, you will realize that if one has certain expectations and/or pre-conceived notions, then this visit/Darshan comes as euphoria to some and underwhelming for others. As they say YMMV. Fully agree that some of the 'sevaks' want to wisk you away after Darshan or push your head for the hug..- some may seem rude, but they are human like you and me, and may seem to care at that moment not about you but about ensuring more people get Darshan and Amma's comfort/time. If you look beyond this action and look into what their heart truly means (however poorly they expressed themselves to you) you will see love. If your expectation was on comfort of your journey, convenience, and personal attention and sweet whispers from Amma then that desire or expectation will be crushed (happened to me hehe )...if there are no expectations, and one has a different focus/mindset then I am confident resulting reaction will be different. If you see people with dolls, or pictures etc- they are all expressions of love in their own way ..does it matter-ultimately it is about you and your experience . Listen for what is relevant to you and observe. Donot let the fact deter that Amma was 'multi-tasking' when you had your Darshan...she does that . Regarding stalls- well I have a different opinion on where they are positioned- but like any charitable effort -you have limited space and resources. Also money does not grow with just voluntary donations, and if there are options to receive more $$ for greater causes/charity I think it is essential to get creative out of the box. Learning material (book/CD/video) is well worth for a first time visitor to spend time and invest. I highly recommend 'Awaken the Children' series- some of the prose/answers given are so refreshing. Are you still curious? intrigued? still want to know more- the pursue what your heart says. When the seeker is ready, the answers will appear (either from a Guru or from within). Cheers, Kishore Ammachi , " Woody " <oldmoses65 wrote: > > Hello everyone. I just wanted to raise a few questions that I have > regarding the Amma programs. I had gone to the New Mexico program as a > first time visitor and am still trying to make sense of the event. I > have looked online at many discussions and am moved to ask some > things. Anyhow, my concerns are as follows: When I made it through the > ticket line, the ticket helper was so rude. She asked me if i had seen > " Mother " before while dangling a small ticket in the air. When I > stated that I had not, she just held the ticket and carried on her > conversation. She finally gave me the ticket but would not look at me > or respond to my question as to where I should go next. I began to > wander towards the stage area where most people were gathered. I am > not a young man so I do move a bit slower than most. While heading > towards the stage, several people had pushed by me, one even so much > so that I lost my balance. I was shocked! As I got closer to Amma, I > noticed many seats without people in them, however, shirts and other > objects were placed on them as to make sure that someone else didn't > have the chance to sit for a while in their absence. Even spaces on > the floor were filled with pieces of clothing and empty folding > chairs. Are these areas reserved for special guests? I am not familiar > with the rules of the program, however, I did not find much compassion > or helpfulness from those at this program. I eventually found a seat > and took some time to observe Amma and the crowds that were there to > see her. I noticed many adults carrying around dolls resembling Amma, > clinging to them with might. Some were crying, some looking strangely > at them, others fixing the outfits and accessories on them. I must > say, I found this quite bizarre. Is this a common practice? Also, in > listening to the speech given by Amma, I noticed reference to her > knowing all thoughts and feelings of everyone. She also made > statements about devotees praying to her and reciting her name over > and over. As a new visitor, it appeared that she was claiming > omnipresence and how she is always with her devotees. In viewing > literature and organizational information, Amma appears to be > described as a humanitarian. Nothing is mentioned about her being all > knowing that was described in the talk. Which is it? As a new visitor, > it seemed as if they verbally stated things that they didn't want you > to know about. Is she God or just a wonderful humanitarian? Very > confusing. Well, finally I went into the Darshan line for my much > anticipated hug. In this line I was handled quite roughly and pushed > along by people who where either very irritated or just plain unhappy. > By the time they pushed me into Amma, I was so frazzled that I sort of > fell onto her. She didn't look at me, however, did carry on a > conversation with some folks around her while hugging me. She > whispered something in my ear and let me go. I looked at her, however, > she was still talking. Next thing, I woman pulled me up from the > ground and scooted me out of the way to keep moving. After this, I was > a bit disappointed. I made my way to the back area only to find so > many items for sale. I saw the dolls that i had seen people carrying > around all evening for a few hundred dollars. There were all types of > trinkets for sale, stickers, incense, anything and everything with > Amma's face on it. Once again, speaking as a new visitor, this seemed > like a flea market rather than a spiritual event. Someone please tell > me about these customs. I realize that the money is used for charity, > however, when preaching that the absence of material possesions is > important for growth, why such marketing for the purchase of material > goods? Am I alone in these thoughts? Perhaps someone would like to > explain why so many people are so visibly miserable and rude during > the program and why there is so much marketing of items? I thought > people would seem more peaceful and treat others nicely here. Woody > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I still don't understand what all of this nonsense is about Amma not making claims. Anyone who has read an Awaken, Children book or attended a satsang must know that she makes claims and allows others to make claims for her. I was just looking through that new critical website of Amma and they have a page about exactly this same issue. There are quotes on there from Amma's books that show all of the claims that Amma makes. Anyone who has read Amma's books knows that to say Amma makes no claims is completely absurd. Here are just a few, copied from the website: " Devotees call this 'Krishna,' 'Devi,' .....according to their faith. Amma is none of these, and at the same time she is everything. But she is also beyond. The entire universe exists as a small bubble within her. " - Amma (Awaken, Children Vol. VII p. 107) " The Master chooses you in order to save you. The fact that he has chosen you should be considered as a gift, which you don't actually deserve. " - Amma (Awaken Children, Vol VII p. 182) I'm sure if we all looked for quotes where Amma makes claims, we would be compiling quotes for the rest of our lives. So, it seems very strange to me that people insist Amma does not make claims. What's all of the denial around Amma making claims about? Most devotees think she is God. Why all of the secrecy and denial of the glaringly obvious? Violet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I think the point you are making is that Amma is a crook, and that her followers are covering it up. Point well taken. Thanks for the clarification. Regards and best wishes Labd Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves wrote: > > I still don't understand what all of this nonsense is about Amma not > making claims. Anyone who has read an Awaken, Children book or > attended a satsang must know that she makes claims and allows others > to make claims for her. I was just looking through that new critical > website of Amma and they have a page about exactly this same issue. > There are quotes on there from Amma's books that show all of the > claims that Amma makes. Anyone who has read Amma's books knows that to > say Amma makes no claims is completely absurd. > > Here are just a few, copied from the website: > > " Devotees call this 'Krishna,' 'Devi,' .....according to their faith. > Amma is none of these, and at the same time she is everything. But she > is also beyond. The entire universe exists as a small bubble within > her. " - Amma (Awaken, Children Vol. VII p. 107) > > " The Master chooses you in order to save you. The fact that he has > chosen you should be considered as a gift, which you don't actually > deserve. " - Amma (Awaken Children, Vol VII p. 182) > > I'm sure if we all looked for quotes where Amma makes claims, we would > be compiling quotes for the rest of our lives. > > So, it seems very strange to me that people insist Amma does not make > claims. What's all of the denial around Amma making claims about? Most > devotees think she is God. Why all of the secrecy and denial of the > glaringly obvious? > > Violet > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:44:44 -0000 " violetdoves " <violetdoves writes: > Temba, > > I would like to address your points/questions. > Yes, Amma has done many good works, but so have many others. You > are every inch as much God as Amma is. To teach others that Amma is > somehow " more God " than another is to perpetuate false truths about > realization. Hi Violet, This is true, Amma herself teaches that we are all little sparks of the Divine(my words). The difference between me and Amma (In my opinion- I can only speak for me) is that she embodies and reflects that divinity far better than anyone I have ever seen in my life. (52 years and counting) Now I am not speaking from books, or anything I have read or what others say. I am speaking from my own limited personal experience. That is what I go on. Amma to me is the best example we have of how to become more God-like, more perfect in a human form. I am not talking about physical perfection. I am talking about spiritual perfection in spite of the human form, and all it's challenges. I believe when you cut away all the other stuff that people put around her, this is her purpose for being here. To live as close to Love and Goodness as a human body can. She is here to show us what is possible for us to attain at this time of war and suffering here on Earth. These are my pure feelings about Amma. I think sometimes we look at the world and feel overwhelmed...That things are all going downhill....That it is impossible for just one person to make a difference. Amma is here to show us that no matter what our situation, or level of education, no matter where we come from or what our sex is, we CAN make a difference. This is Amma's message to me. It is very simple, and I have no fancy words to put around it. But this is what she means to me. I want to say thank you for your posts, because they have made me dig deep to ask myself questions I had never looked at before. And in the end, my love and dedication to Amma is stronger for it. Thank You...In Amma's Service, mare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 " become more God-like " How does one become more God-like? What exactly does that mean? Do you believe that through self-effort you can become more God-like? Just my opinion and personal experience speaking, but you are That...and no amount of self-effort can make you any more That than you already are. Amma embodies the aspects of love and compassion, but do you think that God is only love and compassion? What gave you the experience or idea that God is love and compassion or that Amma is more God because she seems to exhibit those qualities outwardly? I'm really not being snarky here, but I really like to see where others are coming from and how their belief systems have developed. And to the other poster, I am not calling Amma a crook. I am simply pointing out inconsistencies to see how others react to them and what solutions/answers those questions bring about. Violet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi Violet, I will try to answer your questions. I can only speak for myself... On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:04:14 -0000 " violetdoves " <violetdoves writes: > " become more God-like " > How does one become more God-like? What exactly does that mean? Do > you believe that through self-effort you can become more God-like? Yes....For me that means making better choices, physically, mentally, emotionally and Spiritually. I can either see the imperfection in things and react to that, or I can strive to see the goodness, and then choose to react to that goodness. This is what Amma teaches me thru example. I tend to be a " glass half full " kind of person Thank Goodness. I live surrounded by " glass half empty " ' folks and I think I enjoy life a little more my way. (Just my opinion. I think there are people out there who enjoy being unhappy and miserable too) So I do not spend a lot of time trying to dig up corruption or wrong doings in this world. There are plenty of people doing that job. I try to put out energy that is positive, regardless of what comes at me, and that is darn hard work! I personally have a LONG way to go with that. Again, I am not saying that those who uncover darkness are wrong, it's just not my thing. > > Just my opinion and personal experience speaking, but you are > That...and no amount of self-effort can make you any more That than > you already are. Yes, and in my opinion there is PLENTY of room for improvement! hahaha > > Amma embodies the aspects of love and compassion, but do you think > that God is only love and compassion? What gave you the experience > or idea that God is love and compassion or that Amma is more God > because she seems to exhibit those qualities outwardly? My experience is that God is Love. I was brought up with a religion that attempted to teach me to be afraid of God, and that just never felt right to me. Amma is more " God like " in my opinion, because she lives that choice-to see the goodness and to extend Love to all. She doesn't just sit in a chair and talk about it. She LIVES it. Again, for any run of the mill human, a very hard thing to do. > > I'm really not being snarky here, but I really like to see where > others are coming from and how their belief systems have developed. I did not feel you were being snarky at all Violet. I really do think you are trying to understand us as a group. It is very hard for me to put into words my feelings about God. I wish I could type them out so that you could understand better how I feel. But a lot of how I feel is not a mental process. For me, Amma is a living physical example of what is possible to achieve in this lifetime, as a person, as a woman, as someone who comes from nothing. I hope that you take the essence of what I say to heart and not get stuck on the wording. I hope this helps.... Love, mare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 thankyou beloved.tmba is very greatful that ypu have shared this.sometimes dear sibling,though we are responding to each other,there is someone who we are not AWARE of that may be learning something from a point that we may think is " not the point " ..we can learn from a still rock if we stay open.... once agian thankyou as AMMA ,GOD,JESUS,ETC.has taught this child through the words that you have shared.YOU ARE LOVE............ > " violetdoves " <violetdoves >Ammachi >Ammachi > Re: First visit with Amma >Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:44:44 -0000 > >Temba, > >I would like to address your points/questions. > >Yes, people do say wonderful things about those who do good in this >world. Those who do charitable works, help the poor and serve others >are of course, all worthy of such praise. However, I don't think that >this is what was being discussed. What was being discussed was how >Amma is alluded to as God. And not in the sense of being God just like >every one of us is....but of being a higher God, different, special, >separate, to be worshiped. > >I'm sure we can all agree that there have been many saintly, >compassionate souls in this world. Those who fought for justice or >served the underdogs of society, the poor, the dying, the suffering, >the abandoned. But none of these people were worshiped as God, or >allowed themselves to be worshiped as an incarnation of God. Could you >imagine Martin Luther King Jr., Mother Jones, Peace Pilgrim or any >others allowing adulation and adoration the likes of which Amma >allows? Could you imagine people claiming that Martin Luther King was >seeing and hearing all of their thoughts and actions? All of this is >what some of us are getting at. I think this is what the poster who >recently went to see Amma for the first time was trying to say too. > >Yes, Amma has done many good works, but so have many others. You are >every inch as much God as Amma is. To teach others that Amma is >somehow " more God " than another is to perpetuate false truths about >realization. > >Please don't say that Amma does not make claims. We all know that is >not true at all. > >You said that right or wrong wasn't really the point. It can be wrong. >It can be very wrong if those ways of seeing cause people to become >delusional, unstable and to increase their spiritual ego. I'm sure you >understand. > >Violet > > > > > >Ammachi , " temba spirits " <tembaspirits wrote: > > > > dear beloved sibling,everyone is entitled to express what they see >and what > > they feel.you are doing just that in your making your point as tmba >is doing > > in making his point now..while we make these points ,AMMA is still >serving > > and so are those who are close to HER.that is close to HER > > physically,spiritually ,or both. > > > > when personalitys do great things,others have great things to say about > > them.if you had hugged over 23 million people in the last 20 >years,people > > would say the same about you... > > > > right or wrong is not the point really.it's more about just >accepting a > > respecting the way people see...don't you agree beloved siblings? > > _______________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69 & FORM=MGAC01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 How many of us truly act " God Like " ? We may be the divine but how many of us are fully enlightened and aware of that state within? Very few I would guess. Amma says it takes spiritual practices-like IAM and living a life with discrimination (as in making good choices) to bring us fully into the state of awareness within. in Amma, adriane Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves wrote: > > " become more God-like " > > How does one become more God-like? What exactly does that mean? Do you > believe that through self-effort you can become more God-like? > > Just my opinion and personal experience speaking, but you are > That...and no amount of self-effort can make you any more That than > you already are. > > Amma embodies the aspects of love and compassion, but do you think > that God is only love and compassion? What gave you the experience or > idea that God is love and compassion or that Amma is more God because > she seems to exhibit those qualities outwardly? > > I'm really not being snarky here, but I really like to see where > others are coming from and how their belief systems have developed. > > And to the other poster, I am not calling Amma a crook. I am simply > pointing out inconsistencies to see how others react to them and what > solutions/answers those questions bring about. > > Violet > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Would that be to act like the " Old Testament " God? P. Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > How many of us truly act " God Like " ? We may be the divine but how > many of us are fully enlightened and aware of that state within? Very > few I would guess. Amma says it takes spiritual practices-like IAM > and living a life with discrimination (as in making good choices) to > bring us fully into the state of awareness within. > > in Amma, > adriane > > Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves@> wrote: > > > > " become more God-like " > > > > How does one become more God-like? What exactly does that mean? Do > you > > believe that through self-effort you can become more God-like? > > > > Just my opinion and personal experience speaking, but you are > > That...and no amount of self-effort can make you any more That than > > you already are. > > > > Amma embodies the aspects of love and compassion, but do you think > > that God is only love and compassion? What gave you the experience > or > > idea that God is love and compassion or that Amma is more God > because > > she seems to exhibit those qualities outwardly? > > > > I'm really not being snarky here, but I really like to see where > > others are coming from and how their belief systems have developed. > > > > And to the other poster, I am not calling Amma a crook. I am simply > > pointing out inconsistencies to see how others react to them and > what > > solutions/answers those questions bring about. > > > > Violet > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Violet, I did verify that your first quote is correct. So this means that either the quote is correct and Amma makes such claims or the quote is false. Which one is it? Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of violetdoves Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:00 PM Ammachi Re: First visit with Amma I still don't understand what all of this nonsense is about Amma not making claims. Anyone who has read an Awaken, Children book or attended a satsang must know that she makes claims and allows others to make claims for her. I was just looking through that new critical website of Amma and they have a page about exactly this same issue. There are quotes on there from Amma's books that show all of the claims that Amma makes. Anyone who has read Amma's books knows that to say Amma makes no claims is completely absurd. Here are just a few, copied from the website: " Devotees call this 'Krishna,' 'Devi,' .....according to their faith. Amma is none of these, and at the same time she is everything. But she is also beyond. The entire universe exists as a small bubble within her. " - Amma (Awaken, Children Vol. VII p. 107) " The Master chooses you in order to save you. The fact that he has chosen you should be considered as a gift, which you don't actually deserve. " - Amma (Awaken Children, Vol VII p. 182) I'm sure if we all looked for quotes where Amma makes claims, we would be compiling quotes for the rest of our lives. So, it seems very strange to me that people insist Amma does not make claims. What's all of the denial around Amma making claims about? Most devotees think she is God. Why all of the secrecy and denial of the glaringly obvious? Violet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Om Namah Shivaya, I am sorry but do not really understand this connection. No, I don't think that there is a comparison to the Old Testament that I can think of. Doing IAM is very settling and peaceful. It's a great gift from Amma to have this meditation. in Amma, adriane Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2 wrote: > > Would that be to act like the " Old Testament " God? > > P. > > Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > How many of us truly act " God Like " ? We may be the divine but how > > many of us are fully enlightened and aware of that state within? Very > > few I would guess. Amma says it takes spiritual practices-like IAM > > and living a life with discrimination (as in making good choices) to > > bring us fully into the state of awareness within. > > > > in Amma, > > adriane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I don't understand the question. My point was that of course Amma makes claims. Violet Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Violet, > > I did verify that your first quote is correct. So this means that either > the quote is correct and Amma makes such claims or the quote is false. Which > one is it? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 That was meant to be a joke... As in, the LORD being vengeful when his people disobey. And also... the I AM technique... [snicker] hee hee hee... Moses at the burning bush asking the LORD what to say to the Israelites about who has sent him? In Exodus 3: 2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Technique? It isn't complex. P. Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > Om Namah Shivaya, > I am sorry but do not really understand this connection. No, I don't > think that there is a comparison to the Old Testament that I can > think of. Doing IAM is very settling and peaceful. It's a great gift > from Amma to have this meditation. > > in Amma, > adriane > > Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > Would that be to act like the " Old Testament " God? > > > > P. > > > > Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > > > How many of us truly act " God Like " ? We may be the divine but how > > > many of us are fully enlightened and aware of that state within? > Very > > > few I would guess. Amma says it takes spiritual practices-like > IAM > > > and living a life with discrimination (as in making good choices) > to > > > bring us fully into the state of awareness within. > > > > > > in Amma, > > > adriane > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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