Is Amma angry? and the devotees' behaviour revisited one more time

[Guest guest]

Ammachi , KandarW wrote:

>

>

> Adriane:

>

> Amma's anger is not to be misunderstood as the same as our anger. She

> uses anger to help mold the devotee on the path.

>

>

>

> -------------------

>

> So very beautifully put.

>

> My question is: Is She really angry or just pretending to be angry

to make a

> point better understood?

>

> Kandar

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

 

Namaskarams!!

 

How can we ever know the truth about that?

 

i personally believe that She can be " angry " as was stated earlier in

a transitory fashion at the foolishness or pig headedness, or just

plain selfishness in Her devotees...after all these " snares " are said

to lead us AWAY from the Divine towards the state of Asura " hood " , or

Demon....

 

in the Devi Mahatmyam, it is said more than once that Devi became

angry at the demons for their behaviour, and at one time out of that

anger which was fierce indeed, Kali sprang out of Durga's third eye,

fully formed and ready to swallow the whole universe...it was, i

believe in the battle with that nasty Asura Raktabija, whose drops of

blood would birth new demons, such that Durga was having difficulties

in keeping up with the ever new legions of demons arising out of

Raktabija's blood...

 

Kali sprang out of Her forehead in Durga's " anger " , and proceeded to

swallow all the demons whole, including all the blood and soon there

were no more Raktabijas to make trouble....unfortunately She continued

to rage around the battlefield making a big mess, threatening to

destroy the universe with Her battlelust, until Her Husband, Lord Siva

saw what the trouble was, and decided to head out to the battlefield,

and lie down, just where She was going to head next...as She touched

His body with Her foot, Sakti and Siva " merged " and She realised where

She was and Who She was touching with Her foot....and the battle rage

left Her immediately...as Her Love for Siva took over. Only a story

you might say, but it indicates that Divine Mother can indeed get

angry at the demonic behaviour of Her children...that doesn't mean

that She is angry at the child, but rather is angry at the BEHAVIOUR

of the child.

 

as well, all of those demons that Durga and Kali rid the world of

became immediately liberated....so the Anger of Divine Mother in this

case was a Liberating anger.

 

thus i do not understand why Amma cannot become transitorily angry at

Her children's thoughtless, selfish, mean behaviour...but it doesn't

mean that She STAYS angry...as Mother has said, as the spiritual

aspirant grows to be more " adorable " , he or she will still get angry,

but it won't last as long as it used to...and won't have the same

seriously bad consequences on the person as it used to...just passing

through momentarily...

 

as far as i understand it, in Indian culture folks will do almost

anything to avoid angering a Mahatma, or even a swami, because the

anger of such a One is considered to be a serious curse upon the

person causing the anger...so it is well known that even though a

person may be a Mahatma, it is still possible to anger them by

irresponsible, disrespectfull behaviour...just think of the rishi,

Durvasas (i think that's his name)...He was FAMOUS for being easily

angered...and folks were scared stiff of Him because in His anger He

might seriously curse you...and a rishi's curse is something to be feared.

 

really as far as i can understand, the Law of Karmas operates through

curses and blessings, as Vimalananda used to say...the law of

Rnabandana's...bondages of owing this and that to people.

 

he used to say that our bad karmas are the results of the people that

we hurt (and animals and so on) in their pain cursing us, or if not

actively cursing us, their pain alone is cursing us...and when we do

good things and help people, our good karmas are the results of the

good feelings that the people have towards us, their

" blessings " ...thus it behooves us, if only for our own sakes to treat

everyone with kindness and love as much as possible...and that

includes the sevites at the programs.

 

to me it is abundantly clear that the ones who misbehave and treat

folks with disdain, or anger or shortness, do NOT understand the laws

of Karma...the laws of curses and blessings, because if they DID

understand this, there would be no complaints here and there about the

treatment that new devotees receive from the line seva folks.

 

when i work in the line sevas, i make it a very strong point to treat

people with kindness and love as much as possible, and even over many

hours of seva it is STILL possible to behave in a loving and caring

way with people if we really WANT to...there is absolutely NO excuse

for abusing the devotees with our own short tempers and frustrations.

We are there to represent AMMA...not our own selfish attitudes. when

folks complain on this and the other lists about how they were treated

at the programs i am ashamed of the sevites who behaved so badly, no

matter WHAT their excuses might be.

 

i believe that even the Swamis could behave a little more kindly and

lovingly towards the devotees (not just the " close devotees " but also

the ordinary and even NEW ones), not to speak of the folks " close " to

Mother, who often appear to be abrupt, cold and unfriendly. as far as

i can tell this only indicates that no matter how " close " they may be

to Amma, they haven't really gotten Her message...otherwise why do

they behave so coldly, abruptly and so unfriendly...the fact that they

are tired is no excuse...the fact that they see millions of devotees

is also no excuse...in fact in my mind there is NO excuse for that

kind of behaviour...when folks approach them they should be received

with Love and friendship...one can be detached and yet loving and

friendly...what do they have to LOSE? the more Love you give, the more

Love you have to give....this applies to ALL of us...ordinary

devotees, " close " devotees, long time devotees, frustrated devotees,

and even senior swamis....there is simply NO excuse in my mind for

that kind of cold, abrupt and unfriendly behaviour, whose purpose

seems to be simply telling us to " go away...your little problems are

annoying me...i'm not interested in you or any of your ideas or

worries " ...

 

i guess it all comes back to that earlier posting wherein the poster

stated that Mother has said that just because one is physically close

to Her does not mean that one is more spiritually advanced or even

more spiritually close to Her...than other more " distant " devotees.

 

i have read somewhere where She told one " close " devotee this...and

then stated that She has many devotees all around the world MORE close

to Her in a spiritual way than this " close " devotee was. what is most

important is not how physically close to Her we can get, and how

selfishly we can hog Her attention and Her physical body to ourselves,

but rather how well we can tune in to Her with our Loving hearts, and

in our prayers...whether we can feel Her Loving presence in our daily

lives, blessing us and guiding us through all the everyday events...

 

After all we are supposed to see that everything that comes to us,

everything that happens to us is the grace of the Guru...provided for

our growth...and in this understanding we are supposed to surrender

our selfish wishes and egoistic ideas into living that famous prayer

by Jesus: " Not mine, but Thy Will be done O Mother! "

(paraphrased)...ahd instead of asking for things and experiences, we

should simply be praying to Her (as Sri Ramakrsna Parahamsa did) to

give us Pure Love of Her Lotus Feet, in all Her Forms, and that She

might shower Her Grace upon us that we might simply Live according to

Her will, rather than our own.

 

in my view this is the true aim of the Devotee...and that we should be

continuously trying to model ourselves upon Her Loving ways as much as

ever we can...no room for meanness or coldness or abruptness...only

room for motherly loving compassion.

 

this is a concern of mine and it does bother me somewhat when i see

that only Amma and SOME of Her devotees behave in a friendly, loving

manner...and most of those are NOT the close ones, OR the Swamis...why

should they all be so remote and cold? that is not how i behave, even

with people i don't know...i try to live as Amma tells us to live,

giving out Her Love to all whenever possible.

 

this feeling of mine came up once again after attending the Toronto

retreat this year...it is a mystery to me why a little simple loving

kindness appears to be beyond the reach of so many of these folks! and

yet the ordinary Amma devotees appear to be in many cases full of

loving kindness and sweetness....just as many of the members of this

list are.

 

as Jesus used to say(paraphrased)... " as you treat the least of these

people, so you are treating Me "

 

anyways...just my three cents...

 

In Amma's Divine Love,

and in Her Service,

as ever,

your own Self,

 

visvanathan

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

[Guest guest]

Amma Herself has explained this about Her anger...

 

I have always found those around Amma, including up by her and the

swamis to be incredibly kind and helpful. I have talked with the

Swamis before and they each have their own personalities just as we

all do. I think Amma's swamis are incredibly advanced spiritually

from conversations and experiences with them in addition to their

tireless giving and knowledge among other things.

 

Ammachi , " kasi_visvanath " <kasi_visvanath

wrote:

>

> Ammachi , KandarW@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Adriane:

> >

> > Amma's anger is not to be misunderstood as the same as our

anger. She

> > uses anger to help mold the devotee on the path.

> >

> >

> >

> > -------------------

> >

> > So very beautifully put.

> >

> > My question is: Is She really angry or just pretending to be angry

> to make a

> > point better understood?

> >

> > Kandar

>

> Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

>

> Namaskarams!!

>

> How can we ever know the truth about that?

>

> i personally believe that She can be " angry " as was stated earlier

in

> a transitory fashion at the foolishness or pig headedness, or just

> plain selfishness in Her devotees...after all these " snares " are

said

> to lead us AWAY from the Divine towards the state of Asura " hood " , or

> Demon....

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote:

>

> I have always found those around Amma, including up by her and the

> swamis to be incredibly kind and helpful. I have talked with the

> Swamis before and they each have their own personalities just as we

> all do. I think Amma's swamis are incredibly advanced spiritually

> from conversations and experiences with them in addition to their

> tireless giving and knowledge among other things.

>

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!

 

Namaskarams!

 

it is good for you if you have had this experience of them

consistently. however, not everyone has that experience, as we have

seen by the folks questioning and complaining on the list earlier.

 

generally my experience has been similar to yours, except that i often

find the swamis to be quite aloof, and not so friendly or

loving...that is why i made the comment...but then i only see them at

one retreat per year, instead of the entire tour, which some of the

devotees somehow seem to be able to manage to follow...so perhaps it's

because i'm seen more as a 'casual' attendee, since i can't afford

either the time or money for the complete tour, nor have i been able

to afford to go to Amritapuri so far...due to work constraints and

money constraints as well.

 

so...perhaps it's just that...i don't know...only i know how i feel

whenever i attempt to interact with them, and generally i come away

feeling that i am some kind of annoyance that they wish would go away

and cease bothering them...they are not directly unkind, but rather

kind of cold and remote, with nothing to say...to me at least.

 

i realise they may have a lot on their minds, may be tired, and so

on...and may not wish to waste a lot of effort on " casual " devotees

that they hardly ever see...but still i have been going to see Amma

ever since 1995, so i'm sure that they recognise me...i do kind of

stand out in the crowd due to my height and size, not to mention the

greying beard, and manic look in my eyes!

 

anyways, as i observed above, i am not the only one who has

experienced this feeling in relating to them. others too have said this.

 

so perhaps it's just something about me that puts them off...

Amma on the other hand always treats me with incredible Loving

kindness. so i generally don't seem to put Her off as i do the

swamis...it's a mystery to me.

 

in Amma's Divine Love,

and in Her Service,

as ever,

your own Self,

 

visvanathan

 

Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!