Guest guest Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > If it ALL-WAYS works out, then how about doing some praying for me, > " brother " ? Seriously. > > > Really, work some miracles in MY life, and I'll be a believer. > Otherwise you're another hokie-do-gooder building a house of cards > that will surely crush you when your Amma-karma runs out. > > tom > Om Amrtesvaryai namah! Namaskarams!~ dear tom, you MUST recall that " miracles " do not usually happen to, or for people who have no faith....and even then it is well known that even miracles will not really promote faith....but only the desire for more miracles.....as an " unbeliever " and " infidel " , you must realise that your very lack of belief, your major scepticism and anti Amma attitude will NOT be in your favour when asking for miracles, but rather will be standing foursquare in the way, PREVENTING the manifestation of same...as miracles depend upon Divine Grace, and a negative attitude makes one unable to receive that Grace. as well, i suspect that what some folks might call " miracles " might also very well be labelled " coincidences " without a real, easy to see, explanation. a materialist will insists that ALL miracles would fall under this category. incidentally, i do not believe that you are right in your estimations of the senior swamis, Nealu, Krsnamrita prana, and Gayatri...after all, Nealu is STILL with Amma...and i don't think that his sense of discrimination has suffered any during his long time with Mother....i don't think that he needs your excuses for remaining with Mother...it appears to trouble you that the only swami you really respect, ie. Nealu, is still faithful to Her and Her Mission...i think that he is still faithful to our Amma because he sees very clearly Who She is and what he is dealing with in Her being his Guru.....if you trust Nealu's sadhana and accomplishments thereof, i would humbly suggest that you might respect his remaining happily in AMMA's loving arms. i think also that your view of Amma is corrupted by your own personal victim's approach to your experiences of the world up til now...and that despite your own cynical beliefs, Mother is not pulling any scams whatever....nor are the Swamis.....what do they gain from all this? what kind of payoff would inspire them to pursue the " scam " path....when would they have TIME to dispose of their " ill-gotten " gains....what kinds of enjoyments could they possibly be obtaining from scamming the public? the enjoyments of being loved and respected by so many people??? you must remember that they work almost full time....24-7, with only small breaks for meals and rest...what are they GAINING from a supposed scam??? it's ok to be bitter about your experience with Amma and Her Swamis, but i don't think it's all that great to make allegations about Her honesty, and the truth of Her mission unless you can PROVE these allegations...actually you are slandering and libelling Her by these unsubstantiated claims. as for " new-age " it is true that many Amma devotees may also be sympathetic to " new-age " philosophies and such things, but that's their right, and just because you don't like the " new-age " stuff, doesn't really mean that they are wrong and you are right. (i'm not a big " new-age " fan myself, as it seems too watered down, and Disney like to take seriously, rather like " spiritualism " , but still you won't find me cutting down swathes of people who advance those views....just let them think what they like).... no matter whether you think they are wrong, or not, and no matter how vehemently you might attack such beliefs, you are not going to convert any of them to your views, so what is the use in attacking them so seriously all the time...it gets you no where and only lowers your stature among the members of the list, as a carping, strident, martinet of a guy...and i know that is NOT really you... really, i believe, you do have a loving heart even though you have definitely hidden it behind the rocks of words that you are building your castle of solitary philosophy upon, a philosophy which doesn't really allow anyone else into the warmth of your " hearthfire " ....it's up to you of course, but if you go around closing all the windows and doors of your heart with all that negative self- and other-speak, you can't be surprised that it gets a little dark, noisome and lonely in that cave, all closed up against the light of day...do you really have so little respect for the rest of humanity that you cannot let them into your heart a little, and display some loving compassion, rather than the harshness and apparent cruelty of a Rudra... the choice is of course, yours, but please don't blame Amma or Her children for your self-chosen path and its results. In Amma's Divine Love, and in Her Service, as ever, your own Self, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Poor Nealu is old and dying of cancer, and gave his houses (outside Ramana Ashram?) to Amma's org back then. Where would he go? Who would take care of him? Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote: > (snip) incidentally, i do not believe that you are right in your estimations > of the senior swamis, Nealu, Krsnamrita prana, and Gayatri...after > all, Nealu is STILL with Amma...and i don't think that his sense of > discrimination has suffered any during his long time with Mother.... (snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 dear Tom. . .have you ever considered that one might not be able to judge another spiritual aspirants path by what and how one's own limited perception. . . Surely, the Guru-devotee relationship is the most personal and private of any possible relationship known to human. .i remember reading in Ammachi A Biography of Mata Amritanandamayi; often a spiritual aspirant will need to leave the physical form of Guru in order to move deeper into their own true Self. . . for us to make judgment about other aspirants in relationship to their Guru might be be stepping into God's business. . .sorry Tom you are having a hard time. . .and sure that many of us will be holding you in prayer and good thoughts for Amma to draw you near to Her love and healing. . . Aum Amriteswaryai Namaha marci Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > Poor Nealu is old and dying of cancer, > and gave his houses (outside Ramana > Ashram?) to Amma's org back then. > Where would he go? > Who would take care of him? > > Ammachi , " visvanathan " kasi_visvanath@ > wrote: > > (snip) incidentally, i do not believe that you are right in your > estimations > > of the senior swamis, Nealu, Krsnamrita prana, and Gayatri...after > > all, Nealu is STILL with Amma...and i don't think that his sense of > > discrimination has suffered any during his long time with > Mother.... (snip) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all. Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and a test, which he FAILED. There are 3 levels of SERVICE: 1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, improperness). 2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and loyalty (ie, politics, cults). 3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a true of expression of the perfection that's within. tom Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote: > > Om Amrtesvaryai namah! > > Namaskarams!~ > > dear tom, you MUST recall that " miracles " do not usually happen to, or > for people who have no faith....and even then it is well known that > even miracles will not really promote faith....but only the desire for > more miracles.....as an " unbeliever " and " infidel " , you must realise > that your very lack of belief, your major scepticism and anti Amma > attitude will NOT be in your favour when asking for miracles, but > rather will be standing foursquare in the way, PREVENTING the > manifestation of same...as miracles depend upon Divine Grace, and a > negative attitude makes one unable to receive that Grace. (snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 beloved brother,you are only giving AMMAs service efforts more power!i dont care what level i am on.i dont care about failing test.i fail all the time beloved.it is HER love that never will.it is HER love that does what it does through this body.i am nothing.SHE is everything.if you want to be right then you can have that.on the other hand if you were in the neighborhood i grew up in ,you would have had your a** kicked along time ago,but you stick around in spiritual circles that wont kick you out and you take atvantage of the kindness,but make no mistake dear brother,the love of AMMAs devotees for you will out last whatever you are attempting to do. AMMAs true devotees will not waver from their love for you,however your behaviors will not be put up with much longer.we are spiritual ,but we are not cowards.i beg you tom to stop what you are doing.i am concerned with you dear brother.please stop.you are effecting others and GOD will not let that keep happening.please stop. Ammachi: tomgull: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 03:21:22 +0000 Re: approaches and approaches Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all.Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and atest, which he FAILED.There are 3 levels of SERVICE:1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, inwhich YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form isriddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, improperness).2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's nowsubtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newerpotential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage andloyalty (ie, politics, cults).3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and theenvironment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter isDiscrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is atrue of expression of the perfection that's within.tomAmmachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote:>> Om Amrtesvaryai namah!> > Namaskarams!~> > dear tom, you MUST recall that " miracles " do not usually happen to, or> for people who have no faith....and even then it is well known that> even miracles will not really promote faith....but only the desire for> more miracles.....as an " unbeliever " and " infidel " , you must realise> that your very lack of belief, your major scepticism and anti Amma> attitude will NOT be in your favour when asking for miracles, but> rather will be standing foursquare in the way, PREVENTING the> manifestation of same...as miracles depend upon Divine Grace, and a> negative attitude makes one unable to receive that Grace. (snip) _______________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F68\ 1DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Why obsess about ranking, who is on the highest level and who is not? Useless! There can be no perfection without love. Rumi speaks to this: " If a torrent of love for spirit has gone by, where is the streambed? Why are you sour? When true praise and generosity come, there is no loneliness. A hundred beings arrive and live in the chest. When seeds are sown in that ground, sprouts will come up. Impossible not to! " Then what need could there be to dwell on other people's faults, real or perceived? The Taoists say, Why concern yourself with the treasures of others? Seek the real jewel hidden within. Jai Maa, Max >1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in >which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is >riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, improperness). > >2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now >subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer >potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and >loyalty (ie, politics, cults). > >3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the >environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is >Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a >true of expression of the perfection that's within. > >tom -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives http://www.suppressedhistories.net New: Women's Power DVD http://www.suppressedhistories.net/womenspowerdvd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 There is no obsession. There is harm in holding people in high regard who aren't worthy of it, because it increases Maya. Perfection is love and vice versa. Unfortunately, for too many of Amma's devotees, love is measured as an emotion or feeling that one has, not real love tom Ammachi , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: > > Why obsess about ranking, who is on the highest level and who is not? Useless! > > There can be no perfection without love. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Whatever. I'll place myself back into the column of " Too bad, it's your karma " instead of the " sanctioned charity " category, and let you all continue the party. Ammachi , temba spirits <tembaspirits wrote: > beloved brother,you are only giving AMMAs service efforts more power!i dont care what level i am on.i dont care about failing test.i fail all the time beloved.it is HER love that never will.it is HER love that does what it does through this body.i am nothing.SHE is everything.if you want to be right then you can have that.on the other hand if you were in the neighborhood i grew up in ,you would have had your a** kicked along time ago,but you stick around in spiritual circles that wont kick you out and you take atvantage of the kindness,but make no mistake dear brother,the love of AMMAs devotees for you will out last whatever you are attempting to do. > AMMAs true devotees will not waver from their love for you,however your behaviors will not be put up with much longer.we are spiritual ,but we are not cowards.i beg you tom to stop what you are doing.i am concerned with you dear brother.please stop.you are effecting others and GOD will not let that keep happening.please stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 In all these rankings / ratings, where do gurus and Sadgurus like Amma stand? just curious. Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all. > > Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and a > test, which he FAILED. > > There are 3 levels of SERVICE: > > 1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in > which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is > riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, improperness). > > 2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now > subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer > potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and > loyalty (ie, politics, cults). > > 3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the > environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is > Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a > true of expression of the perfection that's within. > > tom > > Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath@> wrote: > > > > Om Amrtesvaryai namah! > > > > Namaskarams!~ > > > > dear tom, you MUST recall that " miracles " do not usually happen to, or > > for people who have no faith....and even then it is well known that > > even miracles will not really promote faith....but only the desire for > > more miracles.....as an " unbeliever " and " infidel " , you must realise > > that your very lack of belief, your major scepticism and anti Amma > > attitude will NOT be in your favour when asking for miracles, but > > rather will be standing foursquare in the way, PREVENTING the > > manifestation of same...as miracles depend upon Divine Grace, and a > > negative attitude makes one unable to receive that Grace. (snip) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 The overriding reality for most swami(ni)s / brahmachari(ni)s to be with Amma is both CHOICE and COMPULSION (having surrendered all to Amma, where will they go anyway?) But your note seems to imply that Nealu is hanging around with Amma more because of compulsion than by any real choice. Is this what you really wanted to imply? If so, do you have anything to prove his attitude beyond it being merely your statement here? Jai Ma! Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > Poor Nealu is old and dying of cancer, > and gave his houses (outside Ramana > Ashram?) to Amma's org back then. > Where would he go? > Who would take care of him? > > Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath@> > wrote: > > (snip) incidentally, i do not believe that you are right in your > estimations > > of the senior swamis, Nealu, Krsnamrita prana, and Gayatri...after > > all, Nealu is STILL with Amma...and i don't think that his sense of > > discrimination has suffered any during his long time with > Mother.... (snip) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I've no more proof than you. But I wouldn't use the word compulsion. It's more like surrendering to reality, no pun intended. When you get older, people mellow out and are more accepting of everything merely because of lower energy levels, compared to youth. That's what I meant. A true sadhak like him never would've gotten involved if she was then as she is now (ie, humanitarian focus). tom Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon wrote: > > The overriding reality for most swami(ni)s / brahmachari(ni)s to be > with Amma is both CHOICE and COMPULSION (having surrendered all to > Amma, where will they go anyway?) > > But your note seems to imply that Nealu is hanging around with Amma > more because of compulsion than by any real choice. > > Is this what you really wanted to imply? > If so, do you have anything to prove his attitude beyond it being > merely your statement here? > > Jai Ma! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 All the 3 levels for Amma, can't say for others unless I actually looked into them in particular. It doesn't surprise me that you're all missing the point, not a surprise at all. You're all so worried, offended, etc. at even the suggestion of classification, that you've missed the point. Point: Be ACTUALLY humble, and keep your mouth shut about your service and/or your guru unless you're willing to put your money (or other service) where your mouth is. I never would've challenged *T* if he hadn't made such lofty claims (typical Rajas). Love, huh, just words and feelings among Amma's devotees. tom Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon wrote: > > In all these rankings / ratings, where do gurus and Sadgurus like Amma > stand? > > just curious. > > > Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull@> wrote: > > > > Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all. > > > > Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and a > > test, which he FAILED. > > > > There are 3 levels of SERVICE: > > > > 1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in > > which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is > > riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, > improperness). > > > > 2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now > > subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer > > potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and > > loyalty (ie, politics, cults). > > > > 3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the > > environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is > > Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a > > true of expression of the perfection that's within. > > > > tom > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 All the 3 levels for Amma? I am not sure what you mean by that. Again you are reading more into my question when you you say I am missing the point. It is just a question, nothing else.... my point was this: the whole reason we are talking of Themba, Dayamrita, and you is because of our connection with Amma. I would probably not have known any one of you (personally or online) if not for our separate connections with Amma. So now that I see how you have established these levels (and I stress, there is nothing wrong with you having your ideas if they help you grow/understand the world better and don't hurt anyone else), I just could not see the relation of all that to Amma. hence the q. Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > All the 3 levels for Amma, can't say > for others unless I actually looked > into them in particular. > > It doesn't surprise me that you're all > missing the point, not a surprise at all. > > You're all so worried, offended, etc. at > even the suggestion of classification, that > you've missed the point. > > Point: Be ACTUALLY humble, and keep your > mouth shut about your service and/or your > guru unless you're willing to put your > money (or other service) where your mouth is. > I never would've challenged *T* if he hadn't > made such lofty claims (typical Rajas). > > Love, huh, just words and feelings among Amma's > devotees. > tom > > Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon@> wrote: > > > > In all these rankings / ratings, where do gurus and Sadgurus like Amma > > stand? > > > > just curious. > > > > > > Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull@> wrote: > > > > > > Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all. > > > > > > Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and a > > > test, which he FAILED. > > > > > > There are 3 levels of SERVICE: > > > > > > 1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in > > > which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is > > > riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance, > > improperness). > > > > > > 2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now > > > subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer > > > potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and > > > loyalty (ie, politics, cults). > > > > > > 3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the > > > environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is > > > Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a > > > true of expression of the perfection that's within. > > > > > > tom > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 dear beloved family.who cares if tom challenges me ,or sw.dayamrita,or any of you,but this disrespect to AMMA has gone to far!our beloved brother has made multiple disrespectful comments about AMMA and this will not be tolerated anymore.post that are disrespectful to AMMA will not be allowed on this forum anymore. this is a AMMA devotee free speech zone.which means all involved should have the UTMOST respect for AMMA.to continually disrespect AMMAs devotees.people that are at least trying to serve this cold world and AMMAs appointed swamis can no longer be tolerated.tom will want to respond by pointing me out and saying, " who is temba to think he can do this " . i repeat,this type of disrespect will not be tolerate anymore.toms time is up! furthermore , this is not fair to NEW people that are trying to find a spiritual family that is rooted in the utmost respect for one another. lastly ,if the moderators dont begin making sure this disrespect to AMMA stops,then the name of the group should be changed to " free speech zone,or whatever without AMMAs name in it! i REPEAT,if this is just going to be a " jerry springer spiritual forum " then that is what we should call it. Ammachi: manoj_menon: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:21:43 +0000 Re: approaches and approaches All the 3 levels for Amma? I am not sure what you mean by that.Again you are reading more into my question when you you say I am missing the point.It is just a question, nothing else.... my point was this: the whole reason we are talking of Themba, Dayamrita, and you is because of our connection with Amma.I would probably not have known any one of you (personally or online) if not for our separate connections with Amma.So now that I see how you have established these levels (and I stress, there is nothing wrong with you having your ideas if they help you grow/understand the world better and don't hurt anyone else), I just could not see the relation of all that to Amma. hence the q.--- In Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote:>> All the 3 levels for Amma, can't say > for others unless I actually looked > into them in particular.> > It doesn't surprise me that you're all> missing the point, not a surprise at all.> > You're all so worried, offended, etc. at > even the suggestion of classification, that > you've missed the point.> > Point: Be ACTUALLY humble, and keep your > mouth shut about your service and/or your> guru unless you're willing to put your> money (or other service) where your mouth is.> I never would've challenged *T* if he hadn't> made such lofty claims (typical Rajas).> > Love, huh, just words and feelings among Amma's> devotees.> tom> > --- In Ammachi , " manoj_menon " <manoj_menon@> wrote:> >> > In all these rankings / ratings, where do gurus and Sadgurus like Amma> > stand?> > > > just curious.> > > > > > Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull@> wrote:> > >> > > Oh forgive me, for I have sinned against y'all.> > > > > > Really, the request for Temba's divine influence was genuine and a> > > test, which he FAILED.> > > > > > There are 3 levels of SERVICE:> > > > > > 1. Average aspirant/devotee: Ego-level, gross form, like Temba's, in> > > which YOU pick and choose WHOM you serve. This gross form is> > > riddled with Rajas (ambition, pride) and Tamas (ignorance,> > improperness).> > > > > > 2. Dayamrita's level: a little more humble, but the ego's now> > > subtle. You serve only devotee's, give extra attention to newer> > > potential devotee's, and primarily to those who give you homage and> > > loyalty (ie, politics, cults).> > > > > > 3. My level: serve any and all, both people, things and the> > > environment, good or bad, devotee or not. Only filter is> > > Discrimination, serving where it's actually needed. Serving all is a> > > true of expression of the perfection that's within.> > > > > > tom> > >> _______________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F68\ 1DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > Poor Nealu is old and dying of cancer, > and gave his houses (outside Ramana > Ashram?) to Amma's org back then. > Where would he go? > Who would take care of him? > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!!! Namaskarams! come on tom!!!.....Nealu may or may not be dying from cancer (i know nothing about it)....but as far as i can tell he is not all that old....in his early sixties at latest i would think...of course to you youthful types that might be considered " old " , but to us more advanced types (advanced in years that is) that is not so old at all....of course probably when i'm 93 if i ever make it, i'll still think that is not so old....it's just a matter of where one IS on the age spectrum...all a matter of perspective... why would he go anywhere, when he has full faith in AMMACHI? when he is perhaps the most surrendered of all the disciples, why would he want to be anywhere so far away from his Divine Mother, and Satguru? after all She has been taking " care " of him for his entire life....just like She has been taking care of us all, in Her own way....at least i can see this through the lens of my life experiences.... in Her Divine Love, and in Her Service, as ever, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Ammachi , " tom " <tomgull wrote: > > I've no more proof than you. > But I wouldn't use the word compulsion. > It's more like surrendering to reality, no pun intended. > > When you get older, people mellow out and > are more accepting of everything merely > because of lower energy levels, compared > to youth. > > That's what I meant. A true sadhak like him > never would've gotten involved if she was then > as she is now (ie, humanitarian focus). > > tom > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Namaskarams! tom tom tom.....you really think that Amma is only working on the humanitarian level???? then it must be that you have been only attending the the so called " public " programs, where they emphasise that approach so heavily...and that is to ATTRACT the more worldly people to come closer....to test the waters so to speak...to maybe stay a while and get a hug.....meanwhile (if it's an Atma puja night....they are about to take part in a PUJA....which no matter how you might put it...is a SPIRITUAL, or RELIGIOUS kind of experience....far beyond the " humanitarian " level.... if you come to the retreat programs you will quickly discover that the " humanitarian " approach is only ONE approach of Amma's many pronged assault on the world of troubles, and tsnunamis and unhappy people...only ONE of MANY...each approach subtly tailored to the views of the devotee in front of her.... group talks of course are more general, but what would you expect... if you were to get individual teachings from Her you would discover that it is tailored to you.....and i would suspect that even you might find that it wouldn't be " humanitarian " ....in that way you so despise. also what you are calling humanitarian efforts is nothing more than what many other religious insitutions do for the poorest and most vulnerable folks all over the world...it is called SERVICE to mankind, and SERVICE to GOD through service to mankind...remember what Jesus said... " as ye do unto the least of these, so you do unto me... " ....my paraphrase...but he was definitely encouraging service to the lowly and ill and so on...so what's wrong with that in your mind? Service is but one part of the spiritual path as we've discussed before...(i'm feeling like a tape loop here), so i still don't understand why you don't get that....or don't accept that it's ok. Mother has many times said that service to the poorest IS service to God, and indeed is our DUTY to God. In Her Divine Love, and Service, as ever, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Not *only* humanitarian focus, just an imbalance, compared to what's still being *published* as her teachings (from the earlier years). And an imbalance to what's actually needed and what people crave. If she gave them a little advice here and there, it would strengthen them for the more painful advice. But instead, she'll do show-stoppers to scare people away from getting direct advice, claiming " They can't handle it " , or " The ashram would be empty if Mother was always in the mood of the guru " . If I despised humanitarianism, would I be doing what I do as service (what you've seen and much you haven't)? The atma-puja in DC this year was a frickin' rock concert to the delight of the participants. Yes, they were quite worldly-spiritual people there. Their egos were fed. tom Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote: > > tom tom tom.....you really think that Amma is only working on the > humanitarian level???? then it must be that you have been only > attending the the so called " public " programs, where they emphasise > that approach so heavily...and that is to ATTRACT the more worldly > people to come closer....to test the waters so to speak...to maybe > stay a while and get a hug.....meanwhile (if it's an Atma puja > night....they are about to take part in a PUJA....which no matter how > you might put it...is a SPIRITUAL, or RELIGIOUS kind of > experience....far beyond the " humanitarian " level.... > > if you come to the retreat programs you will quickly discover that the > " humanitarian " approach is only ONE approach of Amma's many pronged > assault on the world of troubles, and tsnunamis and unhappy > people...only ONE of MANY...each approach subtly tailored to the views > of the devotee in front of her.... > > group talks of course are more general, but what would you expect... > > if you were to get individual teachings from Her you would discover > that it is tailored to you.....and i would suspect that even you might > find that it wouldn't be " humanitarian " ....in that way you so despise.(snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 I've worked with people in their 60's (real, physical work) and I've known some that barely make it through their 60's, having surrendered to a life of disability (gov't disability, that is). Just like people will quickly tell me, " Oh come on Tom, you're only 36 " . And I always tell them, " It's not in the years, but in how you've lived them. " A real sadhak makes the most of his time and energy, to their limits. Therefore, they are likely to age quicker, if they want to make a great distance, or have great difficulties to overcome. That means sadhaks like Nealu and myself will have bodies that are practically much older than our *years*. Similar if someone has overcome great odds, like Temba. The vitality simply won't be the same as someone who's had it relatively easy, but the same age. Bodily vitality and *mind-set* are two totally different things, tom Ammachi , " visvanathan " <kasi_visvanath wrote: > > come on tom!!!.....Nealu may or may not be dying from cancer (i know > nothing about it)....but as far as i can tell he is not all that > old....in his early sixties at latest i would think...of course to you > youthful types that might be considered " old " , but to us more advanced > types (advanced in years that is) that is not so old at all....of > course probably when i'm 93 if i ever make it, i'll still think that > is not so old....it's just a matter of where one IS on the age > spectrum...all a matter of perspective...(snip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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