conversation between tata and bhakta

[Guest guest]

The bhakta met tata and told him what the siddha has said.

 

Bhakta (B): From what the siddha says, I gather that he quotes

Iraivan to be personalized by Shivan. The mind is Vishnu and anava as

Brahma. He gave some explanation but I cannot understand fully, can

tata please elaborate. He goes on to say shiva as satya gunam, brahma

as tamasa gunam and vishnu as rajasika gunam.

 

Tata: Do you remember the story of which Shivan asks Vishnu and

Brahma to find his beginning or end?

 

Bhakta: Yes, Shiva becomes a pillar of fire or something like that.

Neither Vishnu nor Brahma could find Shiva's head nor leg. But Brahma

conspires with a flower which drops from his head to lie. Vishnu

chooses the other end and digs. In some stories he is said to become

a boar. But he also couldn't find where shiva ends. Finally shiva

curses Brahma for lying by saying he will not be worshipped. But

Vishnu he lifts up. As such Vishnu gets to see Shiva's topmost head.

There is also a continuation of the story, that Brahma curses Shiva

in effect.

 

Tata: The continued story has no morals (Brahma cursing Shiva) in it.

Shivan being infinitely stronger than Brahma how could he beget the

curse? You must understand that one must understand what Shivan,

Vishnu and Brahma are symbolized here. Iraivan as Shiva, Brahma and

Vishnu is beyond gunas. One destroys. It can be said as destroying

ignorance too. One sustains. It can be said as sustaining one's life

in truth also. One creates, it can be said as creating the right

action and thought also. But in this world of Mayai everything comes

into being. This is creation. Then it grows and sustains itself.

Finally it is destroyed. Even thoughts are created, sustained and

finally dissolved. As such the world is like the moon. It grows

(waxing of moon), attains fulfillment or manifests fully (full moon),

thereafter decays (waning moon) and finally gets extinguished

(newmoon/no moon). Its like the moon shiva wears in his crown.

 

In the story you have told, Shivan is the pure state of atma. The

Brahma is the ego. The Vishnu is the mind in sadhanai (effort). As

such it is the Varahan or vairagyakaran (the one who preserves in

effort). The varahan also is known as the boar. The atma is

beginningless and endless, as such none can know where it starts and

ends. The other meaning is of Iraivan, one can know it, but cannot

become like it. Its power is unfathomable. In order to get the atma

jnana the mind has to merge from the base of spine. This is known as

south or 'terk'. The mind finally reaches Sindhu or Sahaswaram. This

is in the top of the head. It is the sindh (sindhu). As such only the

term (takshin - terkil nulainthu sindhuvai pidipathu) have come into

being. Due to this Vishnu gets to see Shiva's head when the latter

bends to lift him. These are all symbolizations. Brahma as anava lies

under this influence and thereafter does not qualify to see the

Sindhu. This is Shiva's curse as it will not be worshipped. One lies

under the influence of anava alone, this is to beget the thing one

does not deserve. Hence it is truly tamasa. As such one must

understand that one cannot beget Iraivan if one is sunk in anavam. Do

you understand?

 

B: Yes, I think I understand a bit more now. I want to ask another

thing, why do people drink liquor in trance and why does one serve

this liquor to the deity?

 

Tata: Ha,ha,ha.

 

B: Why are you laughing, have I said anything wrong?

 

Tata: You only have asked, how can it be wrong? Listen. The liquor

gives joy to one. That which is usually given in days of yore is

the 'kalu'. This is made from the palmyra or coconut tree. To get it

one has to scale the top of the tree. The drink gives happiness.

Likewise one has to scale the body and reach the top, this is the

tree. Reaching there one gets the undescribable bliss of

satcitanandam.

 

Secondly is to show that the real thing to be abhorred is ugliness in

mind (anavam-selfish ego), it is not the food and drink. Even

vegetarian food like rice, milk and fruit if eaten in abundance will

beget one diabetes only. As such moderation is the key to all worldly

indulgence. If not one will sink.

 

Thirdly, there is another reason of giving liquor. What is liquor

made of, I mean the substance which gives one the 'high'?

 

B: Alcohol?

 

Tata: The alcohol is made of material molecules, is it not correct?

Is this molecule alive?

 

B: No, I mean its made up of atoms of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen

arranged in a certain way.

 

Tata: This molecule actually goes to the brain. It interferes with

it. As such one gets happiness. In truth it disentangles the atma

from the brain, it is due to this also one gets happiness and behaves

without prejudice. In normal condition, people will hide their

secret, but given a bit of alcohol what happens?

 

B: They blurt it out. But they fight also under its influence.

 

Tata: Its because they can't hide their enmity or dislike. In normal

conditions they will suppress it. But here they couldn't hide their

feelings. Do you know why it is so?

 

B: Why?

 

Tata: Iraivan has decreed that one should get shakti to manifest the

power of mind through jadam only. As such the atma has to mingle with

the shakti from jadam (brain) in order to express awareness, thought,

remembering, feelings etc. If the jadam changes structure or gets

destroyed, one loses this power accordingly. In babies where the

brain is smaller, this power also lack and so also in animals. In

deep sleep one's mind comes out of it and one enters layam (darkness

of unawareness). In dreams, only a small part enters. As such the

dream is more like a fantasy, the power of buddhi lacks severely in

dreams. As such the alcohol which acts on the brain gives this

artificial joy. It also disentangles the mind from the brain. Due to

this the shakti of the deity can enter and thereafter animate the

person who is the medium. It is for this reason that alcohol is taken

by the person in trance, so that his mind will get out and the deity

can shine through it.

 

B: Huh? Is this true?

 

Tata: It becomes so only if there is a real deity around. But deities

see ennam (intention) alone. If its impure then most probably the

fool will just get drunk and blabber nonsense. Worst is that some

malignant spirits might enter and thereafter demand this and that for

some trivial help or take credit for a thing which became alright by

mere coincidence or own effort. When we become overdrunk what will

happen?

 

B: We will black out.

 

Tata: Before that there will be numbness and he will react slowly.

This is because of dulling of senses. It is also because his mind is

now losing control of his body. The body is controlled by the atma

via nerves from the central nervous system only. It includes the

brain and spine. With change of structure here, the atma loses

control over the body bit by bit. When the concentration of alcohol

spikes, it loses control over a major part of brain and thereafter

the person goes into a coma state. He will then fall down in a swoon.

 

B: So must we drink till blacking out for the deity to enter?

 

Tata: No, it is not needed. They drink as to make their own mind to

disentangle. But the medium himself will experience sharpness of mind

as time goes on, this is not experienced in ordinary drinking, people

will get more drunk. It shows the deity to have taken control over

him (when sharpness occurs). Moreover the medium tastes the bliss of

having union with the deity. This is due to mayai being less in it.

This cancels the artificial happiness one gets from alcohol, as such

he doesn't feel the 'high' of alcohol.

 

B: Is all these true?

 

Tata: What am I going to get from lying to you? Am I asking you to

give me a million dollars or build a temple for me? I am sharing this

out of love for you alone.

 

B: But don't you think there might be abuses?

 

Tata: You are right, there definitely will be. More so in this age of

materialism. People who are used to drinking have higher tolerance,

these can act like what I have said also. It is better to do dyanam

of the deity to get its arul sakti rather than rely on alcohol.

Relying on the power of dhyanam is definitely much more better and

superior. It gives one the power of concentration and ability to

quell the mind so the arul shakti of the deity shines through. It is

only when the person is not well developed or they want the deity to

stay longer, our forfathers have devised such a method. It is the

same rationale behind using hemp also. But we say that dyanam is the

best tool.

 

B: Why does the jadam behave like this?

 

Tata: In this world Iraivan has tied certain shakti to certain forms.

The shakti is the quality (tatwa or tanmai) of a certain form. This

form is the rupa. Using buddhi we name the quality (namam) that is

exhibited. Thereafter we understand the interaction of these

qualities inherent in these forms. This is science. As such all

things are as decreed by Iraivan. For example man discovers that

force is equal to mass times acceleration. It cannot become mass add

acceleration even if he wants it so. All things follow the decree of

Iraivan. Man discovers this knowledge and uses it for his benefit.

That is all. So jadam is deterministic behavior. But as atmas we have

will, we can choose, therein lies the difference. Even though the

atma needs shakti from jadam to operate, the body is rendered useless

once it leaves it. If there is no atma it becomes dead. Thereafter

even if one is to maintain artificial respiration and pumping of

blood together with all other activity, it remains dead alone. It is

animated by the atma. Once it leaves, they will throw the body to the

pyre, it becomes useless. As such using its help one must gain the

atma jnana, but here we find people are using it to further their

life in Mayai only. One asks Iraivan to forgive him and help him, yet

he himself do not help or forgive others. Such is one's hypocrisy.

 

- the end -