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Sai Vichaar for Thursday , September 20, 2007

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Sai Vichaar

 

 

www.saibaba.org

 

 

 

 

Thursday , September 20,

2007 :: Volume 10, Issue 19

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(In its nineth year of

publication.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sai Vichaar is a Weekly newsletter distributed every

Thursday and is devoted to the life, philosophy and teachings of Shri Sai

Baba of Shirdi. Feel free to forward this newsletter to your interested

associates in its original form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IN THIS ISSUE:

 

 

FEATURE OF

THE WEEK

CONTRIBUTED

ARTICLE

DEVOTEES SAY

PRAYER CLUB

EXPERIENCE OF

DEVOTEES

QUOTATION OF

THE WEEK

QUESTION OF

THE WEEK

SAI

ACTIVITIES

FROM THE

EDITORS KEYBOARD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FEATURE

OF THE WEEK: Jolt

It is said

that life is a journey through the waters, sometimes difficult, sometimes not

so difficult. The guidance of the Master is essential for the successful

completion of the journey. The sail of Guru's constant remembrance is very

essential for crossing the mundane sea.

When

things go astray in the material aspects of our lives, we are reminded of the

consequences in several ways. The causes may range from habitual rash

judgments to one time ego-driven decisions. The results of such actions range

from subtle reminders to change our course of actions to a major shake-up

forcing the very direction of our lives. A person with a habit injurious to

the physical self will wake up to the reality of ill health at a later stage.

Craving for riches and attempts to possess them through short cut will be

jolted by the ensuing financial calamity. Yet, the power of myth is such,

most fall a victim to its peril. One may ask himself an important and curious

question. What would be an indication of a spiritually fallen? Are there any

signs that would caution a spiritual aspirant of such pathos? Well, it turns

out that there may not be any such indication.

Man is

spiritual by nature. Firmly believing in this should naturally convince the

self to give utmost importance to the means through which such a self is

realized. Great souls of our times like Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Sri

Ramana Maharshi were fortunate to realize this at the right time and more

importantly, pertinent enough to pursue it. As long as one ascribes spiritual

pursuit to a separate path parallel to the material life, this cannot be

achieved. It should be convinced that it is one and the same life and

spiritual self is the ultimate truth that is magnificent while the material,

just trivial. Fortunate are those who cling to Sai tatva (philosophy) for

this is an easy way, constant and consistent remembrance of Sai, the easiest

path.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CONTRIBUTED

ARTICLE: Panchadasi- 10th Chapter Nataka Deepa (The Lamp of the Theatre)

Saibaba

encouraged reading of holy books such as Bhavartharamayana, Eknath

Bhagavatham, Jnaneshwari, Panchadasi etc.. Baba's great devotee G.K.Khaparde

used to read and explain to others, Panchadasi, a great Vedantik textbook.

Now let us ponder on the background and the message of the holy text.

Panchadasi

was written by Swamy Vidyaranya in the 14th century. His name was Madhava

Tirtha before taking sanyasa and he was instrumental in establishing the

famous Vijayanagara Empire. At the age of 75, he took sanyasa and became the

Sankaracharya of Shringeri Pith. Swami Vidyaranya was verily a forest of

knowledge and wrote many famous texts.

Panchadasi

is a Vedantic book of Prakaranas (definitions), precisely explaining the

message of the Upanishads; taking the seekers to the peeks of knowledge. It

has fifteen chapters and hence is called Panchadasi. Roughly speaking the

first five chapters (Viveka Prakaranas) talk of the discrimination of the

real and the unreal (Sat-Vidya). The next five (Dipa Prakaranas) deal with

the awareness aspect of the Reality (Chit-Vidya). The last five (Ananda

Prakaranas) deal with the bliss aspect (Ananda-Vidya). How ever, each chapter

is complete in explaining the Truth.

As

Panchadasi gives a better understanding of the theme of the Upanishads, let

us determine the theme first. An insect caught in the whirlpool of a river

can only be saved by a compassionate soul watching its plight. Thus, the

compassionate Guru comes along lift us out of this rigmarole of life through

the knowledge of Vedanta, indicating a blissful state. Now let us go into the

meaning of the 10th Chapter, Nataka Deepa (The Lamp of the Theatre). One

should read these verses very slowly for a better understanding of the

intended message.

1. Before

the projection of the world the Supreme Self, the secondless, all-bliss and

ever complete, alone existed. Through His Maya He became the world and

entered into it as the Jiva, the individual Self.

2. Entering the superior bodies like that of Vishnu, He became the deities;

and remaining in the inferior bodies like that of men He worships the

deities.

3. Due to the practice of devotions in many lives the Jiva desires to reflect

upon his nature. When by enquiry and reflection Maya is negated, the Self

alone remains.

4. The duality and misery of the secondless Self, whose nature is bliss, is

called bondage. Abiding in Its own nature is said to be liberation.

5. Bondage is caused by want of discrimination and is negated by

discrimination. Hence, one should discriminate about the individual and

supreme Self.

6. He who thinks 'I am' is the agent. Mind is his instrument of action and

the actions of the mind are two types of modifications in succession,

internal and external.

7. The internal modification of the mind takes the form of 'I'. It makes him

an agent. The external modification assumes the form of 'this'. It reveals to

him the external things.

8. The external things (that are cognized by the mind in a general way, their

special qualities having been jumbled up) are cognized by the five

sense-organs quite distinctly as sound, touch, color, taste and smell.

9. That consciousness which reveals at one and the same time the agent, the

action and the external objects is called 'witness in the Vedanta. (To be

continued)

Inspired

by Sainath maharaj. May Saibaba's Divine Light of compassion ever be upon us!

 

(Ref:

Swami Tejomayananda, Chief of Chinmaya Mission, Swami Swahananda, Ramakrishna

Mission)

(Contributed

by Syamasundar Davuluri, Houston,

TX)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DEVOTEES

SAY:

Aruna

Thank you very much Baba for helping me, when I lost my job and when my life

was in full ups and downs, my family are ever grateful for all the good

things You have given to us. Please fulfill all our good wishes and give us

the strength, the opportunity to come to Shirdi.

Sita

Thank you Baba for everything. We had an employee, who was troubling us a

lot; he filed a case against us. We all knew he was at fault. You helped him

realize this and he withdrew the case. Leaving us unharmed. Thank you for

your blessings, please be with us always.

Mini

I have been a devotee of Sai Baba for the past few years. I have had the

opportunity of experiencing His miracles. An example of His leela is when I

went to India in 2003 I wanted to visit Shirdi with my daughter and the day

before my trip I went to this store which sold antiques and coins and since I

like coin collecting I started rummaging through the coins the first coin I

found was avery old coin with Sai Baba's divine face and a Shivan lingam on

one side and Astha vinayakas on the other. I immediately bought this coin. We

had a very nice trip to Shirdi and on the bus I met someone who gave me a Sai

Baba watch and told me that Baba asked him to give it to someone. I request

you Sai Baba to shower Your blessings on all Your devotees and solve my

health and my daughter's health problems and I will post my experience again

on Sai Vichaar soon.

Pradip

Last Feburuary, I was in Shirdi. Before going to Shirdi , I did sankalpa that

I will sing all aratis during our one week stay in Shirdi. I also made the

commitment I will dedicate one arati a day to the people who have serious

financial and social problems. I with my family reached Shirdi, Wednesday

night. I forgot my sankalpa of one arati a day to the weaker people. As

Thursday was Baba's day, selfishness overruled my sankalpa. I was in line for

Kakad arati on Thursday. Baba did not give me a better place to sit and I was

almost in the last line of the Samadi Mandir hall. I did not enjoy arati

singing from the distance whereby I cannot see Baba. The average crowd in

Shirdi was 20,000 to 30'000. I went to my lodge. Thursday night, Baba made me

remember my Sankalpa that I must sing at least one arati a day to the weaker

people with serious financial and social problems. I made up my mind to sing and

dedicate Madyana arati to the weaker people as per my sankalpa from Friday

onwards. I was in line for Kakad arati on Friday, the crowd was not less than

20,000. To my great surprise, I got the seat in the first line of sitting

line at the center. I sang Kakad arati with great enjoyment having full view

of Baba. I got second line of sitiing line at the center in Madyana arati.

For the coming six days of stay in all the aratis, I got either first, second

or third line of siting line of the center by Baba's grace. I really enjoyed

arati singing because I had full view of Baba from these centrally located

seats. I do all the arati in Marathi script in my house since seven years. We

have now started dedicating Madhyana and Shej arati in our house in Kathmandu to the weaker people as per the spiritual

guidance given by Baba in Shirdi.

Achuttan

My younger sister's marraige proposals were not materializing, I was working

in private company at Calcutta.

When I was worried so much, my colleague (we call her Mami) asked, why you

are gloomy now-a-days. I told her the story. She advised me to visit Shirdi Sai

Temple at Calcutta for 7 Thursdays and pray well,

then wait. I visited the temple every Thursday. Believe it or not, the

proposal that was not materialized about 4 months back came again for

consideration. Now she is married with the same person and having two

children staying at Abu Dhabi,

UAE. Her husband is working as Regional Finance Manager of a private company.

This kindness of Baba, how can I forget Him.

Sai devotee

Baba, with Your blessings my younger son got a seat in a good Engineering

college and also my elder son got a job in Dubai with a reasonable package. Whatever I

have been today is only because of Your blessing on my family and as said I

am posting this article. Koti Pranam.

Rama

Baba, I thank You from the bottom of my heart for helping my husband to get

the job. In the future also please take care of us and lead us in the right

path. Once again thank you Baba.

Kalaivani

Baba, I prayed to You for a quick settlement of our new home, which You have

done to us and without any major difficulty, we have got settled. All this is

due to Your blessings. I took a vow to write it in Sai Vichaar after the

settlement. Here I am, writing the miracle You have done in our life. Baba,

please guide us always and show the right path to go on in life. Only with

Your blessings it is possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PRAYER

CLUB:

Padmini

Baba, my humble namaskarams to You. Without asking, You gave me a nice

education and excellent job. But when it comes to another milestone which is

marriage, why do you want me to go through these confusions and pain. Even if

it is because of my previous bad karma, please forgive me. Let all my karmas

burn in Your dhuni and give me advice and help to successfully pass this bad

phase Baba. You know how much my mother is dependent on me. Since I am in

confusions, she is also worried. Please do magic in my thoughts so that I can

nicely take care of her. You are my only refugee. Sometimes I am scolding and

fighting with You, please don't take it seriously. I am extremely sorry as we

all know that You came down to earth to save us. Please Baba, help me to pass

this bad phase then You will always see your daughters happy face only as I

understood Your truth, " Desire is the cause of all sorrows " .

Sai devotee

Sai, my parents and I are going through a lot and I am not sure why. We are

so devoted to You and seek Your blessings in all matters and still nothing is

working out. The property is all my parents have and it must come to them

without any court case and any problem. Please take care of their health and

give them a happy long life with a lot of peace of mind. I have done the

saptah 4 times like You have said and pray so much to You. I have no peace of

mind and happiness Sai and my health is affected so much. I am begging you

Sai, please make things happen as You said it will. Please help me finish my

studies before I leave next month without any problem. Please ensure that I

will leave next month as planned. Please help me with the other issue as well

and please let things be wonderful and happy just as You have said. I believe

in You and I will do another saptah if everything sorts out by next month.

Please give me and my parents a miracle.

Sai Devotee

My dear Sainatha, You have always been with me. Please help me to get well

soon. I am doing very well in the gym and coming back to my normal shape and

size. My husband is getting a promotion for his hardwork and his company is

making huge profits. Protect my two children. Dear Baba please shower Your

grace on my family.

A devotee

My son is entering his eleventh grade and please shower Your blessings and

show Your mercy on him. He has to focus in his studies and please Deva make

him more serious in his education. I do not have any other person in this

world to tell my sorrows. Please change my husband's attitude towards me. I

am so distressed with so many calamities in my life. Stay with me in the

interview that I am going to attend tomorrow, which is Thursday. I want to

visit Shirdi in 2009 with my family. Stay with my son through-out his high

school. Thank you Deva.

Ramoo

Baba, may I humbly ask for Your kind assistance, blessings, arrangements and

guidance to overcome my present situation/predicament, residence and

financial constraints. Thank you very much.

Usha

My dearest Sai Ma, Thank you for all the grace You have showered on us. We

continue to seek Your guidance at every step we take. You know that my

husband has been going through lot of ups and downs in his career. Please

help him to get a good break in a good profit making company where he will be

happy and get good peace of mind.

Veena

Dear Sai, I truly beleive You are always with me. O Lord I pray to You to get

me another good job with very good salary as I am unable to survive in my

current job. You very well know my situation. I beg of You o lord to grant my

wish.

Leena

Respected Baba! what I learnt from childhood, I did that. Yes somtimes as a

human being I became arrogant. But Baba do I deserve this sufferings. Why am

I crying today for a child and a happy family. Please bless me with a child

who will be Your reflection and a sweet family where You will be the head of

the family.

Pujawalia

Thank you God for everything. Baba please help my brother get a job as soon

as possible. You know that how much my mother and brother are worried about

this. Oh Baba please help him in this. I will post my thanks in this prayer

club. I love You Baba. Please bless me with all the faith and patience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EXPERIENCE

OF DEVOTEES:

Chaitanya

Om Sai Ram! Yesterday evening my daughter who

is four and a half years old was suffering from ear pain and headache. Late

in the night she was very much struggling with pain and I could not see her

suffering from 12 am and then at around 2 - 2:30 am I got up and took out udi

and mixed in water and prayed to Baba, " that this pain should go away and

she sleeps well and tomorrow I will write this miracle definitely " and

gave it to my daughter. Then wonder of wonders just within 10 to15 minutes

after she had Udi she had a nice sleep and in the morning when she got up she

was fine. Thank you very much Baba. Well yesterday morning I had read about

Udi's miracle in Sai Satcharitra and remembered about Jamner miracle where

the lady who had labor pains and at the last moment when she had Baba's Udi

she delivered a baby safely and the problem was solved, then even I thought

my daughter should also get well after having Udi with water. Thank you very

much Baba.

Parthasarathy

This happened on 9th September 2007. My mother-in-law traveled from Bangalore to Chennai in

Lalbagh express. Before boarding the train, she was having her purse with

some cash and train ticket. After boarding the train and settled down, the

Ticket master came asked for her ticket. She searched and found that the

purse is missing. She gave my residence phone number to TTE. He called my

residence. My wife picked up the call. As soon as I reached home, she told me

the incident. I prayed whole-heartedly to Sai Baba that You alone could help

my mother-in-law for a safe and hassle free journey. I attended the noon

aarthi in Sai Baba temple and prayed there. She reached Chennai in the

afternoon and called us. She told that the TTE after realizing what had

happened did not ask for the ticket. Further, after reaching Chennai central

station he came to the platform and ensured that nothing should happen to my

mother-in-law. He kept a vigil if the ticket checker asks for the ticket. My

father-in-law went to the station to pick her up. He sensed the happenings

and got a platform ticket and both walked out of the station. Until the time

they were inside the station, TTE made sure that nobody questioned her. Soon

after hearing this incident, it flashed my mind where Sai Baba himself drove

a tonga

to a devotee, which I read in Satcharitra. Bow to Sri Sai, Peace be to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTATION

OF THE WEEK:

 

" The

true remedy is that the result of our past actions has to be suffered and get

over " .-Shri Sai Baba

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUESTION

OF THE WEEK:

Q. How to remove Fear and unwanted Sentiments?

A. by

Padmini

Fear

depends on the type of Faith we have on Baba. When we wish for something and

if we have faith that Baba will satisfy our desire, then it will be

accompanied by fear also. This is because, our mind will also think whether

baba will give it or not. But when we have a faith, that whatever Baba gives,

that is the Best I can get in this life, then there will not be any Fear. To

remove Fear, we should do our duty sincerely but leave the result to Baba. To

remove unwanted Sentiments (like Cat crossing the way or someone coming

towards us when we start from home), we have to believe Baba lives in all

living and non-living beings and hence nothing would be a bad sign.

Q. How to remove Fear and unwanted Sentiments?

A. by

Ramaa Prasad MV

Despite

'fear' being a natural instinct of human beings, it must be said that it is a

negative sentiment emanating from one's own ego. Fear is the consequence of a

feeling of insecurity. I see that the feeling of insecurity arises for the

reason of considering one-self different from others ('anyathwa bhaavana'),

which itself is a manifestation of ego. The realization that it is the one

and only one 'Aatma' pervading all ('Aatma vat sarva bhootani') comes with

faith. Faith in Almighty Parmaguru Sai Baba who is all-pervasive ('sarva

vyaapi'), can eradicate fear as well as other unwanted sentiments. Faith in

Almighty Baba leads to Shraddha and Saburi the great twin attributes, which

give enormous courage to 'saadhaka'. Once we realize that Baba is everywhere

and in everything around us, where is the question of fear? We pray Baba

singing, " Shri Sadguru Baba Sai, thuja vaachuni aashraya naahi

bhoothali " (Baba, other than You, I have no shelter on this Earth) and

" Mee budatho bhava bhaya dohi uddhara " (Please save me from getting

drowned in the well of fear) in our 'Kakad aarati'. Baba is " bhaya nivaari "

(Remover of fear) as we eulogize Him in 'Dhoop aarati'. Once we surrender to

Him with the realization that we are in Him and He is in us, fear in us

vanishes like fog disappearing with the incidence of sun-rays.

Q. How to remove Fear and unwanted Sentiments?

A. by

Pallavi

Fear

arises because of insecurities that we create in our minds for ourselves. For

example: what if my home falls down, what if I earn no money, what if I fall

ill... etc. Unwanted sentiments are sentiments like anger, jealousy, hatred

and these arise when we are not satisfied with whatever we have been given

for ourselves by our Lord Sai. The only way to remove fear and unwanted

sentiments that arise within us from time to time is Faith in our mother Sai

and be Contented with whatever we get from our graceful Sai. We should

remember that no mother would like to see her child in dreaded situations and

would protect the child from any problem that arises. Faith assures us that

nothing can happen to us as Sai is protecting us at each step. Even if we

fall into harsh situations in life, still we should not fear, as again our

faith would say that the bad times would end soon as Sai is taking care of us

and he knows that his child is in trouble. Troublesome times only happen to

test our faith for our beloved Sai. Next if we are happy and contented with

what Sai gives us be it in terms of money, luxuries, material or anything. If

we are grateful to Sai for all that he bestows upon us we will never have any

unwanted sentiments arising within us. So to conclude I can only say that

faith in Sai and love and humbleness for everything that Sai gives us can

help us to remove fear and unwanted sentiments. Bow to Shri Sai - Peace be to

all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SAI

ACTIVITIES:

Shirdi Sai

Temple of Chicago

and Suburbs, Illinois, USA

Shirdi Sai temple is open daily from 7:00 a.m to 9:00 p.m (Summer hours).

Daily program includes Kakad Arathi at 7 a.m. followed by Abhisek. Madhayana

Arathi at 12 noon, Dhoop Arathi at 6 p.m. and Shej Arathi at 9 p.m. Archana,

Homams, Sahasranama and sponsored poojas continue in between the Arathis. To

request a pooja for yourselves, your friends and family, please call.

Devotees can request water (Abhishek Jal) from the Holy bathing of Baba by

sending us an email or by phone. Temple is located 25 minutes drive west of

Schaumburg on intersection of IL Route 47 and Plank Road in Hampshire, IL.

For more information please call 847-931-4058 or send email to

maildrop.

Sri Saibaba Mandir, Minneapolis, MN

Sri Saibaba Mandir is located in Minneapolis,

MN at 1835 Polk St NE, Minneapolis,

MN 55418.

The mandir is open 7 days a week in the evenings from 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm and

during morning hours from 9 am to 12:30 pm, except Mondays. Satsangs are conducted

every Sunday mornings, 9 am to 12:30 pm. Please visit the mandir website

www.hamaresai.org or call 612-789-7729 for more information on mandir

activities, events and other information.

Sri Shirdi

Sai Baba

Temple of Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas

Sri Shirdi Sai Baba Temple of DFW Metroplex is located at 2109 West Parker (Parker Plaza),

Suite 212,

Plano, TX

75023. For temple

hours and activities please call the temple office at 469-467-3388 or visit

the website www.shirdisaidallas.org.

Shirdi Sai

Center in Bay Area, CA

Shirdi Sai Center

is located 897-B East Kifer Rd,

Sunnyvale, CA

94086. For more

information please call 408-705-7904 or 408-564-6704 or send email to

saibandhu. You can also visit our website is

www.Shirdisaiparivaar.org.

Shirdi Saibaba temple, Los Angeles, CA

Devotees in Los Angeles area are informed

about Sri Shirdi Saibaba temple in Los

Angeles area. The temple is located at - 144 South 4th Street, Montebello, CA 90640. For more information please

call Krishna Samantula at 949-679-9938 or visit www.shirdisaila.org.

Saibaba Temple,

Columbus, Ohio

Devotees in Columbus and surrounding Ohio locations area

are informed about Sri Shirdi Saibaba temple in Metro Columbus area. The

temple is located in a leasing space at 7674 Sawmill Rd, Dublin,

OH 43016.

Please attend daily Aaratis and Thursday bhajans. For more information please

call Panditjee at 614-799-8411 or visit www.saibaba.cc.

Shirdi Sai bhajans every Thursday at

Maitland, Florida

Devotees are invited to participate in Sai study and bhajans on Thursdays

between 7-8 pm at Meditation Gallery, 219 E Horatio Ave, Maitland,

FL 32715.

For more details please contact Bonnie at 407-830-1276.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FROM

THE EDITORS KEYBOARD:

Sai

Vichaar is an open forum for those interested to share their experiences,

views and ideas on Sai devotion and their experiences with Saibaba of Shirdi.

Readers are requested to note that Sai Vichaar is not responsible for the

opinions expressed by individual contributors.

The

" Question of the week for this week is suggested by a Sai devotee as

follows:

How to remove Fear and unwanted Sentiments?

Humbly

Yours,

The Editor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ABOUT

THIS EMAIL:

This

newsletter is not sent unsolicited. This newsletter is e-mailed to you because

of at least one of the following reasons:

1. You have d through our on-line page,

2. You have visited our web site and shown interest in the Sai topics and

asked for information, or

3. You have been gifted a subscription by a friend or a relative.

To

Subscribe Sai Vichaar for receipt by Email please visit the URL

http://www.saibaba.org/newsletter.html and select the option from

the menu. If you are subscribing the newsletter for your friend or a

relative, we request that the person concerned may be notified about

receiving the newsletter and the willingness to receive the newsletter be

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To

Un-Subscribe receipt of Sai Vichaar, please visit the URL

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the menu. If you have problems accessing the web page due to network

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" Un Sai Vichaar " in the subject line.

To make a

contribution to any of the sections of Sai Vichaar, please visit the URL

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Vichaar option from the menu.

Back

copies of HTML version of Sai Vichaar can be accessed by visting the URL

http://www.saibaba.org/whatsnew.html.

For any

questions or more information regarding this e-mail or our web site, please

send an e-mail to maildrop and your inquiries will be attended to

promptly.

Thank you,

The webmaster

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From and Editor:

 

 

Shirdi Sai Baba Web Site

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shirdi Sai Baba Sanstha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(A non-profit organization)

 

 

 

 

Mail:

 

 

12N950 State Route 47

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hampshire, IL 60140, USA

 

 

 

 

Email

 

 

maildrop

 

 

 

 

Phone

 

 

847-931-4058

 

 

 

 

Fax

 

 

847-931-4066

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

© Copyright 1998-2006 saibaba.org, Shirdi Sai Baba

Sanstha - Sai Vichaar Weekly may only be redistributed in its unedited form.

Written permission must be obtained to reprint or cite the information

contained within this newsletter. Sai Vichaar is devoted to the philosophy

and teachings of Shri Sadguru Sai Baba of Shirdi, and will take every measure

to avoid topics or themes contradicting the same. Sai Vichaar team or the

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