CONVERSATION DR HISLOP WITH BABA ...1911.2004...VOL.2

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Print this Page Continued from last Issue] SAI:

…….When you have deep love for God, then concentration on Him will come automatically. H: But that is the point, there is the whole point. SAI: In all these experiences we must hold to the Truth, to life. You love life. We have all these experiences because of life. So we are clinging on to that sort of pillar which is life; for we know that without life we don’t have experiences. Life gives so many things externally but life does not change; life is the same. That life is Truth and that is God. The unchangeable is Truth. H: Since we are that Truth, we would like to have love in our hearts and flow naturally with life and not according to our arbitrary wishes. Yet we don’t. Swami says we do not, because we lack the intensity. So we say to ourselves, “Well I must get that intensity .” So we strive towards that goal, and striving towards that goal makes the thing stronger – that prevents the desired

intensity. Translator: I don’t follow that. H: We are selfish and greedy naturally. If we substitute a spiritual goal for a physical goal, then we are still engaged in the same greed. One has just changed the physical greed to a spiritual greed. A further point. If one does not love, as indeed one does not, then one says, “I must get love”. Then love is over there and oneself is here. SAI: Who are you? Who are you? H: I am the accumulation of all my past, all my ideas. SAI: Who is that ‘my’? Who is that ‘my’? Who is claiming? Between the love and yourself there is this claim. What is love and who are you? H: I am that which I am, the accumulation of all these… H’s Wife: The accumulation is the idea that you have, but according to Swami you [Atma] and the love are the same thing. You [ego] are the one who puts the separation. H: Yes, I am the one who puts the separation between us. I am the ego. SAI: Ego is untruth. H: Ego is untruth, then I… SAI: But you are not ego. You are Truth. Ego is not Truth. Any amount of arguments and discussions like this are just words. You will not get this without spiritual practice, without Sadhana. An example: someone asks us what sugar is. We say it is brownish and sort of sandy, because we know sugar. But the sweetness has no form. You can describe sugar like this, but you cannot picture

the taste, because the taste has no form. Even pertaining to the world there are so many things we do not know, and we don’t imagine or worry about. If we only feel intensely for God instead of much discussion and reading books. We must get into the field and try it out. Even if someone writes a book it is his spiritual experience. You love your wife and she loves you. But if she is hungry you cannot eat for her. And if you are hungry she cannot eat for you despite the fact that you love each other dearly. Spiritual hunger is like that. Each man must seek and appease that hunger according to his faith. Even thoughSwami tries to explain, you do not grasp it. It is only through experience that you can come to it. When you start to learn to drive, you must have an open space for practice; but once you learn, then you can go confidently even on a narrow road. It is just like in a school. Gradually you go and you understand. If big words are used when the child is still learning ABC then the child does not understand. In the beginning, we do not understand the things of the world, and do

not even understand ourselves; so how can you understand that which is beyond you? So, first you try to understand yourself by doing spiritual practice, by doing Sadhana. First ‘I’ next ‘you’. ‘I’ plus ‘you’ equals ‘we’. Then ‘we’. Then ‘we’ plus ‘He’. Then only ‘He’. H: No, I don’t understand that. SAI: First ‘I’ then ‘you’. First ‘I’ that is life. Next ‘you’ that is the world. ‘I’ plus ‘you’ is ‘we’. ‘We’ plus ‘He’ is God. Only ‘He’. There is love, the person who loves and the person you love. And when all get together it is bliss. You see there are three blades in the fan. The three Gunas are represented by the three blades. Only when the blades circulate together in harmony do you get the air. When they move in the same direction then they bring the cool air. The three Gunas within us are going in different directions. When you turn them in the same direction all going round together then you will have one-pointedness and you will be enabled to know. A Visitor: Could it be like this? It is the experience of a number of people including myself that gradually one does Sadhana, but then comes such an experience that would have taken an immense time to gain, but through

your Grace one has the sudden experience. SAI: Another example: in a house, each one does a particular job and divides the work. In the evening when the family has finished the work nobody says, “Father, I did such and such a work and you must pay me.” It is one house. So you don’t ask for payment you just do the work. But when someone from outside comes you fix up the rate and pay accordingly.

When you pay them that shows that they are outsiders. But when they become your own you don’t have to pay them. They work with interest and no pay is expected. Similarly with God. When you think God is the nearest and dearest to you, like one family, you don’t ask for pay. The one who surrenders like that, he is My own, he does not have to look for payment. But the one who says, “I have done so much Sadhana” and barters with God and says, “I have done so much Sadhana and you give me such and such a reward”, then that is the difference; he is the outsider. The child who is so small does not ask the mother “I want milk. I want to be changed” and so on, but the mother looks after every need

of the child without its asking. When you have surrendered yourself completely to God and become God’s child, you don’t have to tell God what you want. He will give even more than you have asked for. But it is only by love that He is your dearest. Do Sadhana and there is a closeness to God; then you don’t have to tell Him that you want this or that. Because you are like a little child, He will come and give you more than even what you ask for. Ego is what prevents us from becoming close to God. It is that ego, ‘I’ have to do this, ‘I’ have to get all this. You must see that

’I’ is only the instrument of the Lord. Like the fan is an instrument, you are an instrument of the Lord. Now is the fan making the fan rotate or is the current making the fan rotate? H: The current is making the fan rotate. SAI: The current is God; so you are only the instrument. Even the fact that we think that our eyes see things and that our ears hear things is not correct. My eyes are here but the mind is in Bangalore thinking of this or that. My eyes are seeing, but my mind is somewhere else. Mind is important. Body is like a torch; eye is l ike the bulb; mind is the

battery cell; intelligence is the switch. Only when the four work together do you get the light. The body is only like a torch. H: Surrender to God is everything of course but… SAI: The word ‘surrender’ in English is not quite correct; it is not the right word. Because, when you say ‘surrender’, you are separate and God is separate. That is the meaning you get. But God is not separate. (to be continued…) Ram ChuganiKobe, Japanrgcjp

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