Guest guest Posted March 2, 1999 Report Share Posted March 2, 1999 Namaste I came across an interview by Vimala Thakar in the WWW about Women & Spirituality. The link is put below. There she relates an ecnounter with Swami Prabhavananda which puts him in a bad light. Here is the excerpt: >> I was visiting Los Angeles in 1968 and I was staying at Ramakrishna Mission. I was asked to give a talk to the inmates of the ashram but they said, " You cannot speak in the chapel because you are a woman. Only sannyasins [monks] can speak there, and a woman cannot be a sannyasin. " The Swamiji there was Swami Prabhavananda, who was a very powerful swami. He wrote books along with Christopher Isherwood on the Bhagavad Gita, and commentaries on the Gita. He knew J. Krishnamurti, and so on. He was a very fine person. I said to him, " Swamiji, excuse me. Will you please remove the photographs of Sarada Devi, Ramakrishna's wife, from the chapel? " There were two photographs there. So I said, " Since you tell me that I cannot give an address in this chapel, I will not give an address. But, will you please remove those photographs? " Even in Ramakrishna Mission there is a differentiation. So who will stand up against all this and assert the humanness concealed in woman's body, the divinity concealed in woman's body, and demand equality on that level - not just on the physical and psychological levels? << What do you think of the above? Maybe we can start a discussion on this. Om Shanti Kathi http://www.moksha.org/wie/j10/vim3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 Namaste, Kathi What you have reported is a most gross distortion. V. Thakar could not have had the conversation she reports-at least not in those words. I lived for many years with and around Swami Prabhavananda. He not only treated women and men the same (sometimes the women better!) he also made sannyasinis. There are many of them there now, in the convents he started. They were in operation in 1968 when she was there. There may have been a rule about NON-MONASTICS speaking from the temple platform; she may have mistaken the nature of the rule or (hopefully not) deliberately distorted it. Most of all, he could never have said that women could not be sannyasins! Yours truly, ------ Swami Yogeshananda The Eternal Quest 302 Sycamore Drive Decatur, GA 30030 (404)373-0107 yogeshananda http://www.mindspring.com/~yogeshananda/index.html ----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 If woman can be Rishis and can write texts of authority then this argument that 'women cannot be a sannyasin' can be easily crushed. The Ramakrishna Order was born from mother worship. That power which Sri Ramakrishna had in his body is nothing less than 'Shakti'. Jay Sri Ramakrishna! DAKSHA. >From errors-65993-65-anjubigeyes=hotmail.com Tue Mar 2 12:27:00 1999 >Received: (qmail 16097 invoked by uid 99); 2 Mar 1999 20:23:34 -0000 >Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 2 Mar 1999 07:26:48 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO elm.ncs.com.sg) (203.116.16.17) by pop. with SMTP; 2 Mar 1999 07:26:48 -0000 >Received: from purple.ncs (purple.ncs [192.168.249.13]) by elm.ncs.com.sg (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00436 for <ramakrishna >; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:20:29 +0800 (SGT) >Received: by PURPLE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <FLBW26KR>; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:21:35 +0800 >Message-ID: <DDEDD701DBD5D111AEA700A0C999A871EBEED5@CASPER> >K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan >ramakrishna >Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:24:54 +0800 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) >Mailing-List: list ramakrishna ; contact ramakrishna-owner >Delivered-mailing list ramakrishna >Precedence: bulk >List-Un: <ramakrishna- (AT) ONElist (DOT) com> >Reply-to: ramakrishna >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >[ramakrishna] Women & Advaita > >K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan > >Namaste > >I came across an interview by Vimala Thakar in the WWW about Women & >Spirituality. The link is put below. There she relates an ecnounter with >Swami Prabhavananda which puts him in a bad light. Here is the excerpt: > >>> >I was visiting Los Angeles in 1968 and I was staying at Ramakrishna Mission. >I was asked to give >a talk to the inmates of the ashram but they said, " You cannot speak in the >chapel because you are a woman. Only >sannyasins [monks] can speak there, and a woman cannot be a sannyasin. " The >Swamiji there was Swami Prabhavananda, >who was a very powerful swami. He wrote books along with Christopher >Isherwood on the Bhagavad Gita, and >commentaries on the Gita. He knew J. Krishnamurti, and so on. He was a very >fine person. I said to him, " Swamiji, excuse >me. Will you please remove the photographs of Sarada Devi, Ramakrishna's >wife, from the chapel? " There were two >photographs there. So I said, " Since you tell me that I cannot give an >address in this chapel, I will not give an address. But, >will you please remove those photographs? " >Even in Ramakrishna Mission there is a differentiation. So who will stand up >against all this and assert the humanness >concealed in woman's body, the divinity concealed in woman's body, and >demand equality on that level - not just on the >physical and psychological levels? ><< > >What do you think of the above? Maybe we can start a discussion on this. > >Om Shanti >Kathi > >http://www.moksha.org/wie/j10/vim3.html > > > >------ >We have a new web site! > >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services >------ >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >Vivekananda Centre London >http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 1999 Report Share Posted March 3, 1999 Dear all, I have been thinking about the subject of women and advaita for some time now. For the life of me I cannot understand the apparently well accepted discrimination against women. I believe that they have as much of mental, emotional and intellectual prowess as does the man, and so do not believe that there is a need for discrimination of any sort. I believe we all follow scientific dictats as this immensely appeals to our sense of judgement. This being the case, how can we, a race of people, set forth into the next millenium, by discriminating against women, when we have no concrete evidence or proof of their " unworthyness " or inability? I believe, it is this very discrimination that has shadowed women of greatness and spirituality, through the ages. I am glad someone has spoken up for a change, and I thank the person who posted this message up. Regards Shravan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Namaste Thanks to all for expressing your views on the above subject. Please let me confess that it is not my intention to tarnish the image of Swami Prabhavananda-ji. I've read some of his works and have high regards for him. I mailed the original post with the sole intention to clear such an accusation by presenting it to the list. I know that the Ramakrishna Order has no gender biasness as stated by Vimala Thakar. Thanks to all. Om Shanti Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Dear Friends, It may be difficult for us to understand the purpose of Holy Mother's Mission of simplicity and purity in this fast materialistic culture. However, in the words of Swami Gambhirananda, in this era of information explosion and scientific discoveries, the enemy is not outside demon, but is inside our mind in the form of desires and wants, lust and greed, jealousy and hatred. “… So in the present incarnation (as the Holy Mother) there is no clanging of weapons or the din of war; but there is abundance of modesty, humility, purity, goodness, practical love, and spiritual experience. Moreover, the Deity has not only to remove the obstacles, She has also to establish new goals and create fresh aspirations; and this is a tremendous task. …As the whole of humanity has to be raised to a higher pitch of realization, Divine Power Herself takes the field.” During her last illness, Holy Mother's advice to one of her devotees is the supreme statement of universality of spirit, human understanding, and oneness of soul. Said she: “If you want peace, don't find faults with others, but find fault rather with yourself. Learn to make the world your own. Nobody is a stranger, my dear; the world is yours.” And Sri Ramakrishna speaks of the Mother: She is knowledge, the world will learn a lot from her. The Absolute and the Shakti are inseparable like 'milk and its whiteness', 'fire and its hotness', 'diamond and its lustre'. It is difficult to accept any distorted version of blemish on the " Ramakrishna- Vivekananda " movement as far as its treatment of respected female gender is concerned. Gender bias is alien to this most progressive ideology of this era. Thanks, dr c s shah K Kathirasan ADM NCS wrote: > K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan > > Namaste > > I came across an interview by Vimala Thakar in the WWW about Women & > Spirituality. The link is put below. There she relates an ecnounter with > Swami Prabhavananda which puts him in a bad light. Here is the excerpt: > > >> > I was visiting Los Angeles in 1968 and I was staying at Ramakrishna Mission. > I was asked to give > a talk to the inmates of the ashram but they said, " You cannot speak in the > chapel because you are a woman. Only > sannyasins [monks] can speak there, and a woman cannot be a sannyasin. " The > Swamiji there was Swami Prabhavananda, > who was a very powerful swami. He wrote books along with Christopher > Isherwood on the Bhagavad Gita, and > commentaries on the Gita. He knew J. Krishnamurti, and so on. He was a very > fine person. I said to him, " Swamiji, excuse > me. Will you please remove the photographs of Sarada Devi, Ramakrishna's > wife, from the chapel? " There were two > photographs there. So I said, " Since you tell me that I cannot give an > address in this chapel, I will not give an address. But, > will you please remove those photographs? " > Even in Ramakrishna Mission there is a differentiation. So who will stand up > against all this and assert the humanness > concealed in woman's body, the divinity concealed in woman's body, and > demand equality on that level - not just on the > physical and psychological levels? > << > > What do you think of the above? Maybe we can start a discussion on this. > > Om Shanti > Kathi > > http://www.moksha.org/wie/j10/vim3.html > > ------ > We have a new web site! > > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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