Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 JodyHolly1 In a message dated 5/13/99 10:24:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, anurag writes: << God is Everywhere but in that yogi it is shining. >> >This is an assumption. One must question one's " yogi " and use >discrimination, not blind faith in assuming that because a person is a monk >that God is shining more from within Him than others. This is sometimes true >and sometimes not true! Kathi: Then why the respect for Swami Vivekananda & Sri Ramakrishna (with all respects to them) if we are all the same? The divinity is the same but thru the veil of Maya it manifests differently. We are having this discussion under the influence of Maya right? >Vivekananda's name means " bliss of discrimination " . Discrimination is always >the watchword in Vedanta. Besides the sun shines in all...and when we see >that sun in others, it is because we have seen it in ourselves. We cannot >see outside of ourselves what we do not perceive within. Kathi: In Vedanta, viveka is not the only watchword. There are others too, like mumukshutva and shraddha. >To assume that the sun is shining moreso in a monk or " man/woman of the >cloth " than in others comes from a belief system, not necessarily from a >clear perception of God within one's own self. I do believe that our path >teaches us to treat EVERYONE as God, not just swamis. It is a wonderful >practice to honour the Divine in all. Kathi: That belief system is what we call Maya. Do not consider it a 'rope' 'cause we are still seeing the 'snake'. The reflection of the sun is not the same in a mirror and glass. >We cannot judge another's spiritual state. Swamiji said " do not judge >another person by his behaviour " , (paraphrasing). To see God in all can >bring us beyond our personal prejudices and beliefs, taking us beyond the >personalities to the Principle. Kathi: Without judgment we cannot discriminate. We have already made a judgement by considering the Holy Trio as divine by their spiritual state. This is the limitation in the realm of Maya. We should not judge but yet we have to. Om SHanti Kathi ------ Having difficulty getting " in synch " with list members? Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! ------ Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 In a message dated 5/14/99 5:27:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << Then why the respect for Swami Vivekananda & Sri Ramakrishna >> " By their FRUITS ye shall know them " - (not by their clothes or their station in life; i.e., all monks) Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 " Here in Jeypore an incident occurred that the Swami [Vivekananda] remembered all his life. He was invited by the Maharaja to a musical entertainment in which a nautch-girl was to sing, and he refused to come, since he was a monk and not permitted to enjoy secular pleasures. The singer was hurt and sang in a strain of lamentation. Her words reached the Swami's ears: 'Look not, O Lord, upon my sins! Is not Same-sightedness Thy name? One piece of iron is used. Inside the holy shrine, Another for the knife Held in the butcher's hand; Yet both of these are turned to gold When touched by the philosopher's stone Sacred the Jumna's water, Foul the water in the ditch; Yet both alike are sanctified Once they have joined the Ganges' stream, So, Lord, look not upon my sins! Is not Same-sightedness Thy name?' The Swami [Vivekananda] was deeply moved. This girl, whom society condemned as impure, had taught him a great lesson; Brahman, the Ever Pure, Ever Free, and Ever Illumined, is the essence of all beings. Before God there is no distinction of good and evil, pure and impure. Such pairs of opposites become manifest only when the light of Brahman is obscured by maya. We ought to look at all things from the standpoing of Brahman and not condemn anything... " " Vivekananda, A Biography " Swami Nikhilananda http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 In a message dated 5/13/99 10:24:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hparekh writes: << Ramakrishna considered that amoungst his inner group - only Swami Vivekananda was most suitable to follow the path of Jnana Yoga. >> Swami Vivekananda said of Himself that he was a bhakta on the inside and a Jnani on the outside. He has also said that Bhakti Yoga is the quickest path to Enlightenment. Jody http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 Namaste Jody Thanks for this beautiful excerpt. Regards. Om Shanti Kathi > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > Saturday, May 15, 1999 11:13 PM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] hmmm... > > JodyHolly1 > > " Here in Jeypore an incident occurred that the Swami [Vivekananda] > remembered > all his life. He was invited by the Maharaja to a musical entertainment > in > which a nautch-girl was to sing, and he refused to come, since he was a > monk > and not permitted to enjoy secular pleasures. The singer was hurt and > sang > in a strain of lamentation. Her words reached the Swami's ears: > > 'Look not, O Lord, upon my sins! > Is not Same-sightedness Thy name? > One piece of iron is used. > Inside the holy shrine, > Another for the knife > Held in the butcher's hand; > Yet both of these are turned to gold > When touched by the philosopher's stone > > Sacred the Jumna's water, > Foul the water in the ditch; > Yet both alike are sanctified > Once they have joined the Ganges' stream, > So, Lord, look not upon my sins! > Is not Same-sightedness Thy name?' > > The Swami [Vivekananda] was deeply moved. This girl, whom society > condemned > as impure, had taught him a great lesson; Brahman, the Ever Pure, Ever > Free, > and Ever Illumined, is the essence of all beings. Before God there is no > distinction of good and evil, pure and impure. Such pairs of opposites > become manifest only when the light of Brahman is obscured by maya. We > ought > to look at all things from the standpoing of Brahman and not condemn > anything... " > > " Vivekananda, A Biography " > Swami Nikhilananda > > http://members.aol.com/JodyHolly1/index.html > > ------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 Why does shape exist ? On Sat, 8 May 1999, Tim Gerchmez wrote: > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > At 02:03 AM 5/9/99 +0530, you wrote: > >Anurag Goel <anurag > > > >Ur answer do make sense but still > > > >Why does this cosmos exist ? > > This cosmos does not exist in a real sense. Does a glass jar exist in a > real sense? No, it is a shape made of glass. In the same way, this cosmos > does not exist, it is a shape made of Nirguna Brahman (God without > attributes, the Supreme). > > Hari OM, > > Tim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 At 12:51 AM 5/12/99 EDT, you wrote: >JodyHolly1 ><< This is not true. Everyone is Divine, but not aware of it, due to > >ignorance. > > That is exactly what I am trying to say. We are ignorant if it. > >> >If we SAY we are ignorant of it, then we are ignorant of it. Whether we say it or don't say it, if we are ignorant we are ignorant. One who is not ignorant may say " I am ignorant, " and that would be a false statement. Ignorance does not depend on speech. It is a condition of the mind and the ego. The main ignorance is the belief that maya is all there is, that there is nothing else but maya. When this belief is gone, the way is open for wisdom to come. Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 At 03:06 PM 5/12/99 +0530, you wrote: >Anurag Goel <anurag >Why does this cosmos exist ? why does God exist ? Please forgive me (no insult intended at all), but these are silly questions such as a child might ask. What do the answers to these questions matter? What is, IS. If that is not enough, perhaps you're asking the wrong questions. Hari OM, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 In a message dated 5/18/99 2:50:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: << Whether we say it or don't say it, if we are ignorant we are ignorant. >> Dear Tim, The WORD has great power. In the beginning was the word, so says the Old Testament in the Bible. The WORD is what created this existence; OM, is the WORD that keeps all of existence alive and in motion. Without the WORD, we would not be. We must pay careful attention to our languaging and IF WE SAY WE ARE IGNORANT THEN SO SHALL IT BE. I did not say that by saying we are enlightened means we are, but I did say that if we say we are ignorant then we are. Kashmir Shaivism teaches about " matrika shakti " which is the power behind the letters of the alphabet. All words have an energy behind them and that is why words can effect a mood in us. Rather than say " I am ignorant " , might it not be better to say, " I am Divine " . We are Divine; God dwells within us as us which Swamiji said over and over and over again. As a very important part of this path, Swamiji stressed that we must repeatedly affirm our divine nature. And I do believe that God is playing through us, through the human experience and that ths spiritual path is God seeking God. Who is it that is asking, " Who Am I " ? Who is it that is seeking? Is it the mind? Is it the ego? Is it the Divine within us? Who is it that is constantly urging us to go past our present reality to the reality of That One, to go to the depths of Truth. Can we seek Truth from a place of ignorance? Can ignorance seek Truth or is it Truth that is seeking to reveal itself? Om Shanti! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 In a message dated 5/18/99 2:50:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: << Please forgive me (no insult intended at all), but these are silly questions such as a child might ask. >> Dear Tim, I would suggest there are no silly questions. I would suggest that we need to respect and honour all questions and all people on this listserv. This needs to be a safe space for us to dialogue without fear of condemnation. Let us try to emulate our teachers. Om Shanti! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 it's ok there is no insult. The answer to these questions tell me who am i n why do i exist ? They will tell me wat is life ? On Mon, 17 May 1999, Tim Gerchmez wrote: > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > At 03:06 PM 5/12/99 +0530, you wrote: > >Anurag Goel <anurag > > >Why does this cosmos exist ? why does God exist ? > > Please forgive me (no insult intended at all), but these are silly > questions such as a child might ask. What do the answers to these > questions matter? What is, IS. If that is not enough, perhaps you're > asking the wrong questions. > > Hari OM, > > Tim > > ----- > Visit The Core of the WWW at: > http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html > Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. > > Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: > http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html > > ------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > > Join a new list today! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 1999 Report Share Posted May 21, 1999 >Anurag Goel <anurag >Why does this cosmos exist ? why does God exist ? Please forgive me (no insult intended at all), but these are silly questions such as a child might ask. What do the answers to these questions matter? What is, IS. If that is not enough, perhaps you're asking the wrong questions. Hari OM, Tim Seek and ye shall find! Ask and then you will learn My kids asked me a long time ago these same questions - I gave some vague replies. Does it matter if the same question is asked in a more complex manner - what are the unifying laws governing the universe. My possible reply would be " I think Professor Hawkings at Oxford attempted.........- if you want more details - ask the professor! " . I think Anurag's question is far more direct. Difficult to answer - because if this world is just a 'play' does not God get tired of games (after so many cycles I am sure this universe has gone through). Harshad Parekh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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