Guest guest Posted June 5, 1999 Report Share Posted June 5, 1999 This book that Swami Vivekananda was asked to read aloud by Sri Ramakrishna has some very focused ideas on spirituality. Let us examine:- In first sloka King Janaka asks Sage Astavakra (1) How can knowledge be acquired? ( 'How do we know what all THIS is all about?') (2) How can liberation be attained? ('How do we gain freedom from our limitations?) (3) How is renunciation possible? ('How can we stop chasing after things ?') All three are very relevant and pointed questions. In reply Sage Astavakra says:- If you aspire liberation my child, shun the objects of the senses -- then he adds 'You are neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor air, nor space. In order to attain liberation know the Self as the witness of all these and as Consciousness itself.' The word liberation or freedom from limitations is one of the key approaches to spirituality. This idea of gaining liberation from limitations may sound like some religious rhetoric but covers far more universal meaning. At the moment science is studying the concept of 'Consciousness' - it is trying to reduce consciousness as something that is generated by neuronic interactivity through chemical and electrical processes in the brain. I suggest that the thing that distinguishes a real conscious being from an elaborate computer network (AI -Artificial intelligence) is this concept of 'looking to overcome limitations - searching for freedom from all limitations'. Again this idea of gaining liberation is seen in evolution too. A one cell continues to replicate - continues to evolve into more and more complex being in a direction which gives it more freedom. A fish will try and evolve wings......etc...What gives this process of evolution a direction? Why does evolution from time to time not slip into reverse and complex beings become less complex beings? This is a question we have to ask the scientists -- what gives these replicators a push in one direction only? The answer may be in this idea of 'search for liberation (looking to overcome limitations)'. jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 1999 Report Share Posted June 6, 1999 Dear Everybody, The following statements are mostly conjectural. This is just to stimulate the scientist in everyone of us. Thanks, dr c s shah Manifestation Of Consciousness: A hypothesis The process of evolution shows us that the matter organizes itself in such a fashion that more and more Reality (Consciousness) is expressed through it. Up to the human level this is quite clearly obvious. However, there develops tendency now to think that the human race is superior and cut off from other species, and, as if the nature has been created for his enjoyment, plunder, and benefit alone! The human being tends to forget that he is just one link in the chain of evolution, and therefore, higher evolutionary trends are not only probable but are bound to follow in future. The confusion is created due to our lack of ability to understand, or predict the course of evolutionary progress. We fail to see the better evolved human beings, simply because we are bound by our sense perceptions to see progress from materialistic point of view only. We fail to perceive that simplicity, denial of sense enjoyment, renunciation, and discrimination are necessary preconditions to transcend the human limitations of selfish genetic structure and to reach that state of evolution where the Reality-Consciousness-is expressed in its finer and full glory. The man should become multi-centric instead of ego-centric. The universal consciousness tends to manifest through the higher evolved central nervous system. Throughout the history, persons manifesting such qualities of higher evolved human beings-we may call them God-Man species-are born on this earth. Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, Krishna, Guru Nanak, and in recent past Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, and many others all over the world, are a few examples of such species. Many more are forgotten in the flow of time. The question is, why should we bother? Let the nature take its own course of evolving this 'better human being'; such was and is the case of evolution of other species. No monkey or ape has made any conscious attempt to become a man, it was an accident or nature's play at the most! Yes we agree. However, now, the natural evolution has created a brain structure where intelligence has reached the stage by which human being can control and guide the course of his own evolution. Such evolution brings about changes in the brain structure of adding one or more lobes or connections in the cerebral cortex. Stretching our argument to its logical conclusion, we can postulate that the cerebral cortex can develop new centres and connections to control all the lower centres of lust, hunger, sensory system, special senses, autonomic system-control of heart and respiratory functions, etc. This is what we call as reaching the state of nirvikalpa samadhi and reaching the domain of 'Thousand Petal Lotus' or in Tantra terminology- 'Sahasrara' in the brain: The centre capable of expressing the consciousness of universal love and oneness. ==================================== Vivekananda Centre wrote: > > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > ..... > At the moment science is studying the concept of 'Consciousness' - it is trying to reduce consciousness as something that is generated by neuronic interactivity through chemical and electrical processes in the brain. I suggest that the thing that distinguishes a real conscious being from an elaborate computer network (AI -Artificial intelligence) is this concept of 'looking to overcome limitations - searching for freedom from all limitations'. > Again this idea of gaining liberation is seen in evolution too. A one cell continues to replicate - continues to evolve into more and more complex being in a direction which gives it more freedom. A fish will try and evolve wings......etc...What gives this process of evolution a direction? > Why does evolution from time to time not slip into reverse and complex > beings become less complex beings? This is a question we have to ask the scientists -- what gives these replicators a push in one direction only? The answer may be in this idea of 'search for liberation (looking to overcome limitations)'. > jay ------ > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ -- ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://come.to/neovedanta http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html ==================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 Dear Dr. Shah, I love your contribution regarding evolution. It is thought-provoking and marvelous. I have a question: Does creation or evolve or is it our consciousness that evolves? A friend of mine on this list pointed out that everything is happening simultaneously, so there really is no such thing as " evolution " which led me to my question about the evolution of consciousness. So, again I ask is it our consciousness that evolves or does creation actually evolve? Om Shanti! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 1999 Report Share Posted June 7, 1999 > Dr C S Shah <drcssha > > Dear Everybody, > The following statements are mostly conjectural. This is just to > stimulate the scientist in everyone of us. > Thanks, > dr c s shah > > Manifestation Of Consciousness: A hypothesis > The process of evolution shows us that the matter organizes itself in > such a fashion that more and more Reality (Consciousness) is expressed > through it. Is this matter life ? Up to the human level this is quite clearly obvious. > However, there develops tendency now to think that the human race is > superior and cut off from other species, and, as if the nature has been > created for his enjoyment, plunder, and benefit alone! The human being > tends to forget that he is just one link in the chain of evolution, and > therefore, higher evolutionary trends are not only probable but are > bound to follow in future. R we discussing Darwin's theory of Evolution here. > The confusion is created due to our lack of ability to understand, or > predict the course of evolutionary progress. We fail to see the better > evolved human beings, simply because we are bound by our sense > perceptions to see progress from materialistic point of view only. We > fail to perceive that simplicity, denial of sense enjoyment, > renunciation, and discrimination are necessary preconditions to > transcend the human limitations of selfish genetic structure Selfish genetic structure ? and to > reach that state of evolution where the Reality-Consciousness-is > expressed in its finer and full glory. The man should become > multi-centric instead of ego-centric. > The universal consciousness tends to manifest through the higher evolved > central nervous system. Higher evolved nervous system . i suppose Evolution here is Darwin's evolution theory > Throughout the history, persons manifesting such qualities of higher > evolved human beings-we may call them God-Man species-are born on this > earth. Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, Krishna, Guru Nanak, and in recent > past Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, and many others all over the > world, are a few examples of such species. Many more are forgotten in > the flow of time. > The question is, why should we bother? Let the nature take its own > course of evolving this 'better human being'; such was and is the case > of evolution of other species. No monkey or ape has made any conscious > attempt to become a man, it was an accident or nature's play at the > most! Yes we agree. > However, now, the natural evolution has created a brain structure where > intelligence has reached the stage by which human being can control and > guide the course of his own evolution. Even at this stage Such evolution brings about > changes in the brain structure of adding one or more lobes or > connections in the cerebral cortex. > Stretching our argument to its logical conclusion, we can postulate that > the cerebral cortex can develop new centres and connections to control > all the lower centres of lust, hunger, sensory system, special senses, > autonomic system-control of heart and respiratory functions, etc. Can the reverse process occur too ? This > is what we call as reaching the state of nirvikalpa samadhi and reaching > the domain of 'Thousand Petal Lotus' or in Tantra terminology- > 'Sahasrara' in the brain: The centre capable of expressing the > consciousness of universal love and oneness. > ==================================== > > Vivekananda Centre wrote: > > > > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > > > .... > > At the moment science is studying the concept of 'Consciousness' - it is trying to reduce consciousness as something that is generated by neuronic interactivity through chemical and electrical processes in the brain. I suggest that the thing that distinguishes a real conscious being from an elaborate computer network (AI -Artificial intelligence) is this concept of 'looking to overcome limitations - searching for freedom from all limitations'. > > Again this idea of gaining liberation is seen in evolution too. A one cell continues to replicate - continues to evolve into more and more complex being in a direction which gives it more freedom. A fish will try and evolve wings......etc...What gives this process of evolution a direction? > > Why does evolution from time to time not slip into reverse and complex > > beings become less complex beings? This is a question we have to ask the scientists -- what gives these replicators a push in one direction only? The answer may be in this idea of 'search for liberation (looking to overcome limitations)'. > > > jay > ------ > > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > > > > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > > ------ > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > Vivekananda Centre London > > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > > -- > ==================================== > E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: > http://come.to/neovedanta > http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html > ==================================== > > > ------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 Jody i think it's our counciousness that evolves. i think evoluton in creation is just the evolution of Lord's Mind for which we trying to find link from one specie to another. We may find similarities or kind of evolution in species but just on the baisis of this can we state that one specie evolved from another. Can the evolution occur ? On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 JodyHolly1 wrote: > JodyHolly1 > > Dear Dr. Shah, > > I love your contribution regarding evolution. It is thought-provoking and > marvelous. > > I have a question: Does creation or evolve or is it our consciousness that > evolves? A friend of mine on this list pointed out that everything is > happening simultaneously, so there really is no such thing as " evolution " > which led me to my question about the evolution of consciousness. > > So, again I ask is it our consciousness that evolves or does creation > actually evolve? > > Om Shanti! > > Jody > > ------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > > Join a new list today! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 1999 Report Share Posted June 8, 1999 << JodyHolly1 wrote: <<< I have a question: Does creation or evolve or is it our consciousness that evolves? A friend of mine on this list pointed out that everything is happening simultaneously, so there really is no such thing as " evolution " which led me to my question about the evolution of consciousness. >>> Dear Jody and all friends, Before everything there exists Reality as Absolute Consciousness. What makes the Unchangeable Reality to change into many? The Will to become many is the beginning of manifest universe. This concept of 'One Consciousness desiring to become many' may also be taken as beginning of Maya - altered perception of Reality. But as we are discussing relative truths of this changing world, which we have taken for granted to be real, we have to elaborate the hypothetical rationality of evolution and related topics of Indian belief system. Indeed, much the same way we experiment and theorize the rationality of truths of external nature in other physical sciences. Therefore we have to say that: Matter evolves and Consciousness manifests. It is the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS that appears different with the evolution of matter. While it is generally believed that consciousness is a product of brain-mind complex, we have stuck to the definition given in various Upanishads: That the Consciousness is 'the Eternal Subject, the only Existence, and the only one Reality.' The same Consciousness percolates, reflects, manifests, or expresses through the varied structural arrangement of the matter and is perceived as manifold. As a glass would reflect the same light in various ways and degrees depending upon its characteristics, so does the matter reflect the consciousness in various ways. Light appears colored through a colored glass, dull and diffuse through a semitransparent one, distorted through the broken glass, altered through the prism, and concentrated and pointed through the convex surface. In the same way, consciousness appears as human consciousness, or tree consciousness, animal consciousness, insentient consciousness, etc., as expressed by peculiar structure and arrangement of material form. In human beings also, depending on the refinement of mind, consciousness may appear as narrow selfishness (greedy) to broad unselfish attitude (saintly). This may be brought about by the functional or structural change in the brain, which in turn, can be induced by drugs, dreams, hypnosis, sleep, or spiritual practices-sadhana. (We are mainly concerned here with the state brought about by the last method.) Such a study is a science in itself in so far as it studies the data of a state of changed perception. For more details, the interested reader may visit my series of seven articles on this hypothesis at: < http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/asc.html > dr c s shah ============================= E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://come.to/neovedanta http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html ==================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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