Guest guest Posted June 11, 1999 Report Share Posted June 11, 1999 On Fri, 11 June 1999, Ramakrishna wrote: > > > ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected. > > Join a new list today! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Re: Digest Number 96 > Anurag Goel <anurag > 2. Astavakara > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 1 > Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:47:05 +0530 (IST) > Anurag Goel <anurag > Re: Digest Number 96 > > > Tom thanks for answering some of the queries. ********************************************************************* > > You are most welcome. This is a very interesting forum! Here is some further food for thought and possible topic of discussion: WOMAN " ........In the beginning, says Hindu legend, when Twashtri, the Divine Artificer, came to the creation of woman he found that he had exhausted his materials in the making of man, and had no solid elements left. In this dilemma he fashioned her eclectically out of the odds and ends of creation: .........'He took the rotundity of the moon, and the curves of creepers, and the clinging of tendrils, and the trembling of grass, and the slenderness of the reed, and the bloom of flowers, and the lightness of leaves, and the tapering of the elephants trunk, and the glances of deer, and the clustering of rows of bees, and the joyous gaiety of sunbeams, and the weeping of clouds, and the fickleness of the winds, and the timidity of the hare, and the vanity of the peacock, and the softness of the parrot's bosom, and the hardness of adamant, and the sweetness of honey, and the cruelty of the tiger, and the warm glow of fire, and the coldness of snow, and the chattering of jays, and the cooing of the 'kokila', and the hypocrisy of the crane, and the fidelity of the 'chakravaka; and compounding all these together he made woman, and gave her to man.' ....... " ____________________ According to the Hindu Code of Manu:........ " A female is able to draw from the right path in this life not a fool only but even a sage or sadhu, and can lead him to subjection to desire or to wrath. " The Law lays it down that all through her life woman should be in tutelage, first to her father, than to her husband, and finally to her son. The wife adresses her husband humbly as " master " , " lord " , even as " my god " ; in public she walks some distance behind him, and seldom recieves a word from him. She is expected to show her devotion by the most minute service, preparing the meals, eating - after they had finished - the food left by her husbands and her sons, embracing her husband's feet at bedtime. " A faithful wife, " said Manu, " must serve.......her lord as if he were a god, and never do ought to pain him, whatsoever be his state, and even though devoid of every virtue. " A wife who disobeys her husband becomes a jackal in her next incarnation. ____________________ the foregoing text Quoted from: Our Oriental Heritage by Will Durant, published: Simon and Schuster, New York, 1954. [this book is sadly out of print, but one may find it at the local library!] COMMENTS WELCOME! ********************************************************************** > > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 2 > Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:13:11 +0100 > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > Astavakara > > Two further verses: - > > In Verse 14 says Astavakra continues: > > My child, you have long been caught in the noose of body-consciousness. > Sever it with the sword of knowledge " I am consciousness " and be happy. > > Verse 15 says: > > You are unattached, actionless, self-effulgent and without blemish. > This indeed is your bondage that you practise meditation. > > > Commentary: > > The very instruments we use to achieve self knowledge are being discarded. > " This body " - " The meditation " we carry out - have nothing to do with our > true > nature! - say these verses. > > " Our limitation is that we think we are limited and have to practice > meditation! " > (Strong stuff! Can we even imagine what is the state of the mind of someone > who can use such language?) > > jay > > > > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ ____ 123India - India's Premier Search Engine Get your Free Email Account at http://www.123india.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 1999 Report Share Posted June 11, 1999 Hey Om don't start with manu i think it will lead us no where. lets realise lord first n than we can comment on such things. On 11 Jun 1999 omtatsat wrote: > <omtatsat > > " ........In the beginning, says Hindu legend, when Twashtri, the Divine Artificer, came to the > creation of woman he found that he had exhausted his materials in the making of man, and had > no solid elements left. In this dilemma he fashioned her eclectically out of the odds and ends of > creation: .........'He took the rotundity of the moon, and the curves of creepers, and the clinging of > tendrils, and the trembling of grass, and the slenderness of the reed, and the bloom of flowers, > and the lightness of leaves, and the tapering of the elephants trunk, and the glances of deer, and > the clustering of rows of bees, and the joyous gaiety of sunbeams, and the weeping of clouds, > and the fickleness of the winds, and the timidity of the hare, and the vanity of the peacock, and > the softness of the parrot's bosom, and the hardness of adamant, and the sweetness of honey, > and the cruelty of the tiger, and the warm glow of fire, and the coldness of snow, and the > chattering of jays, and the cooing of the 'kokila', and the hypocrisy of the crane, and the fidelity of > the 'chakravaka; and compounding all these together he made woman, and gave her to man.' > ...... " > > ____________________ > > > According to the Hindu Code of Manu:........ " A female is able to draw from the right path > in this life not a fool only but even a sage or sadhu, and can lead him to subjection to desire or to > wrath. " The Law lays it down that all through her life woman should be in tutelage, first to her > father, than to her husband, and finally to her son. The wife adresses her husband humbly as > " master " , " lord " , even as " my god " ; in public she walks some distance behind him, and seldom > recieves a word from him. She is expected to show her devotion by the most minute service, > preparing the meals, eating - after they had finished - the food left by her husbands and her sons, > embracing her husband's feet at bedtime. " A faithful wife, " said Manu, " must serve.......her lord > as if he were a god, and never do ought to pain him, whatsoever be his state, and even though > devoid of every virtue. " A wife who disobeys her husband becomes a jackal in her next incarnation. > ____________________ > the foregoing text Quoted from: Our Oriental Heritage by Will Durant, published: Simon and Schuster, New York, > 1954. [this book is sadly out of print, but one may find it at the local library!] > > COMMENTS WELCOME! > ********************************************************************** > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 1999 Report Share Posted June 11, 1999 In a message dated 6/11/99 4:06:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, omtatsat writes: << According to the Hindu Code of Manu:........ " A female is able to draw from the right path in this life not a fool only but even a sage or sadhu, and can lead him to subjection to desire or to wrath. " The Law lays it down that all through her life woman should be in tutelage, first to her father, than to her husband, and finally to her son. The wife adresses her husband humbly as " master " , " lord " , even as " my god " ; in public she walks some distance behind him, and seldom recieves a word from him. She is expected to show her devotion by the most minute service, preparing the meals, eating - after they had finished - the food left by her husbands and her sons, embracing her husband's feet at bedtime. " A faithful wife, " said Manu, " must serve.......her lord as if he were a god, and never do ought to pain him, whatsoever be his state, and even though devoid of every virtue. " A wife who disobeys her husband becomes a jackal in her next incarnation. >> Woman is the feminine aspect of God. God does not obey, nor serve. These comments most assuredly come from a place of duality. The feminine aspects of God are just that --- feminine aspects of God. The chauvinistic attitude that has prevailed in certain traditional cultures, as a result of the distorted translations of these scriptures, has been the downfall of these cultures. As a woman matures she recognizes and owns her own power; as a man matures, he recognizes and honours the feminine aspects in woman and in himself. Swami Vivekananda broke with this tradition of enslaving women to man's desires. This type of enslavement caters to the lower chakra demands of the immature male. Awake! Arise! There is no aspect of God that can be enslaved! Jody Hoelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 1999 Report Share Posted June 11, 1999 In a message dated 6/11/99 8:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, anurag writes: << Hey Om don't start with manu i think it will lead us no where. l >> I agree! Cool it " Om " ! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 1999 Report Share Posted June 12, 1999 --- >Awake! Arise! There is no aspect of God that can be enslaved! > >Jody Hoelle You GO, girl! Go Jody! Go Jody! Namaste, Thomas Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 1999 Report Share Posted June 12, 1999 > > omtatsat [sMTP:omtatsat] > Friday, June 11, 1999 1:59 PM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 98 > > <omtatsat > > On Fri, 11 June 1999, Ramakrishna wrote: > > According to the Hindu Code of Manu:........ [Madhava Replies:] Om Santi! My dear friend, no offence, but I have three words to say about this: It is wrong. It is tantamount to mis-understanding and mis-representation of our sacred texts. I would advise, better leave them there, that doesn't harm much. Other wise, I would advise - read the books written/interpreted by any " adhikAri " . Also, when you want to quote from " Manu " please quote the book in its entirety. It is a chain of inter linked verses. *Personally*, with what ever little knowledge I have got in understanding english, I don't even accept the MaxMuller's translation of vedic texts! Vedas demand that one should be an " adhikari " (Master/he who deserves) to interpret them. That condition does apply for understanding our Manu as well ! A true adhikari is he who got the following qualities: (1) who has mastered all six aspects of Veda (trayee) sikshavyAkaraNaM chandO niruktaM jyOtishaM tathA | kalpa ScEti shaDaMgAni vEda syAhu rmaneeshiNaH || sikaha = Pronounciation vyAkaraNaM = Grammer chandaH = Prosody niruktaM = Explanation of obscure terms (NOTE: My point is based on this) jyOtishaM = Astronomy kalpah = Religious rites (2) He who understood the right usage of Svara (sound) - " udAttAdyAstrayaH svarAH " - Accute, grave or circumflex accents. (3) He should have knowledge on the " anveekshaki " - anveekshakee danDaneeti starka vidyArtha SastrayOH - Logic as stated by Gautama and Politics as taught by cANakya and ancient sages. (4) He should have the knowledge of the " akhyAyika " - That which is told once upon a time - a true or parable related to that time. Before reading any interpretation of vedas or sacred books, we need to understand whether the author is an adhikari, or just another mere translator. I leave this judgement to your discreetion. Conclusively, one has to have full knowledge of " nirukta " in order to understand the vedic language. Contrary to the popular belief vedas are written in a language called " Chanda " . Nirukta is the dictionary which could reveal the hidden meaning of veda by giving you the acces to the root of the word. Let me give you one small example of how nirukta could reveal the meaning of the word " deva " . For us " deva " means " God " in english. According to Nirukta: " dEva " means " dyOtanAt dEvaH, dAnAt dEvaH, damanAt devaH.... " He who reveals (dyOtanAt) He who donates (dAnAt) He who controls (damanAt) Our tittiriya upanishad says: " mAtR dEvObhava, pitRdEvObhava, AcArya dEvObhava " -- according to mullar's translation it is " Mother is God, Father is God, Teacher is God " ! Would this suffice???? Don't we need to know why a father has become a God for Hindus? The answer is that the father reveals (dyOtanAt) to his children what is life. He donates his money (dAnAt) to the children, thinking that is his sacred duty. He controls (damanAt) his children, fearing that they might tread the unwanted ways of life.... Please refer what nirukta says about Manudharma Sastra. " The role of Women and Sudras in Manudharma Sastra " - written by Swamini Saradapriyanda, Chinmaya Mission, would be or great help in order to understand manu. This is a commentary on manudharma based on nirukta. She has written this in telugu language. I don't know whether Swamini Amma translated it into English or not. Hari Om! tat sat! prANaMs, -mAdhava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 Namaste I remember reading that Swamiji considered certain laws laid down in the Manusmrti to be outdated. He even wanted a new set of laws (smrti) to be written for the present modern society. Regards. Om Shanti Kathi > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:09 AM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 98 > > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 6/11/99 8:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > anurag writes: > > << Hey Om don't start with manu i think it will lead us no where. l >> > I agree! Cool it " Om " ! > > Jody > > ------ > Looking to expand your world? > > ONElist has over 165,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 Kathi can u recall where did u read that may be it may be helpful in dealing with some people. On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, K Kathirasan ADM NCS wrote: > K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan > > Namaste > > I remember reading that Swamiji considered certain laws laid down in the > Manusmrti to be outdated. He even wanted a new set of laws (smrti) to be > written for the present modern society. Regards. > > Om Shanti > Kathi > > > > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > > Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:09 AM > > Ramakrishna > > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 98 > > > > JodyHolly1 > > > > In a message dated 6/11/99 8:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > anurag writes: > > > > << Hey Om don't start with manu i think it will lead us no where. l >> > > I agree! Cool it " Om " ! > > > > Jody > > > > ------ > > Looking to expand your world? > > > > ONElist has over 165,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > > ------ > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > Vivekananda Centre London > > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > > ------ > Looking for your kindred spirit? > > Go to ONElist: where kindred spirits connect and stay connected. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 1999 Report Share Posted June 14, 1999 > >Namaste > >I remember reading that Swamiji considered certain laws laid down in the >Manusmrti to be outdated. He even wanted a new set of laws (smrti) to be >written for the present modern society. Regards. >True. Moreover, Swamiji said he went by the scriptures when they agreed >with him. Swamiji has gone beyond the ancient scriptures and given us a >new dispensation for our day. He said this was the era of the common man, >and of women. Jai Swamiji! >Om Shanti >> >> JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] >> Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:09 AM >> Ramakrishna >> Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 98 >> >> JodyHolly1 >> >> In a message dated 6/11/99 8:13:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >> anurag writes: >> >> << Hey Om don't start with manu i think it will lead us no where. l >> >> I agree! Cool it " Om " ! >> >> Jody >> >> ------ >> Looking to expand your world? >> >> ONElist has over 165,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! >> ------ >> Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >> Vivekananda Centre London >> http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > >------ >Looking for your kindred spirit? > >Go to ONElist: where kindred spirits connect and stay connected. >------ >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >Vivekananda Centre London >http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ ------ Swami Yogeshananda The Eternal Quest 302 Sycamore Drive Decatur, GA 30030 (404) 373-0107 yogeshananda http://www.eternalquest.org/ ----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.