Guest guest Posted June 16, 1999 Report Share Posted June 16, 1999 > > Dr C S Shah [sMTP:drcssha] > Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:09 PM > Ramakrishna ; onelist > Re: [ramakrishna] Astavakra > > Dr C S Shah <drcssha > > >>>Vivekananda Centre wrote: > >>>After hearing oneself to be Pure Consciousness and surpassingly > beautiful, how can one yet be deeply attached to sensual objects and > thus become impure?<<< > > Dear Everybody, > > To effectively detach oneself from the stranglehold of sensual objects, > discrimination - viveka - and dispassion (or renunciation)- vairagya - > are required. As Sri Ramakrishna says: > > " Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and > unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the > world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. [Madhava Replies:] Hari Om! In a lighter sense, in deed one can very much get the renunciation feeling, impromptu :-) Our elders categorized them as (1) SmaSAna vairAgya (2) purANa vairAgya (3) prasooti vairAgya. Everybody gets the renunciation feeling when they face the above three situations, when ever those things happen in their life :-) 1. " smASAna vairAgya " : Either having seen a death or while participating in a funeral procession --- everybody thinks very philosophically as: " See the life.. yesterday he was with me today he is no more, where did he go! Today it is him and who knows who is next? May be it is me... What a life " :-) 2. " purANa vairAgya " : Everybody get quite philosophical while listening to upanishadic lectures and they can not help but thinking about the mundanity of existance! They think: " We have to do sadhana, tapasya... we have to find an answer to this life before I succumb to death. " :-) 3. " prasooti vairAgya " : Getting philosophical at the maternity time. I guess, I don't need to explain this :-) There are also other situations where one gets quite philosophical. One may try to renounce when one finds his life at peril. This kind of renunciation is called as " vijeegisha sanyAsa " . Arjuna got this kind of renunciation feeling during Mahabharata War. He tells krishna that he wants to renounce and become a bhikshu: " hatvArtha kAmAMstu guroonihaiva srEyO bhOktuM *bhaikshya* mapeeha lOkE.. " . In and around haridvar and at other holy places in India, you can find lots of " vijeegisha sanyasis " . There are this other kind of people who, having fully understood the mundanity of existance; having fully understood the right path shown --- by the vidic seers, by the great masters, by the upanishads --- try to renounce. This kind of sanyasa is called as " vidvat sanyAsa " . Swami VivEkAnanda is a " vidvat sanyAsi " . He understood what is life and then he renounced. Om tat sat! mAdhava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 1999 Report Share Posted June 16, 1999 In a message dated 6/15/99 9:58:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drcssha writes: << To effectively detach oneself from the stranglehold of sensual objects, discrimination - viveka - and dispassion (or renunciation)- vairagya - are required. As Sri Ramakrishna says: " Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. They must be practised every day. One should renounce 'woman and gold' mentally first. Then, by the will of God, one can renounce it both mentally and outwardly. " Thus we see that Sri Ramakrishna has given great emphasis on conscious and deliberate sadhana (spiritual practice) to inculcate these qualities in our personality. The third element added to viveka and vairagya is love - anuraga- for God. This third factor is the cause as well as the effect of the first two. Devotion to God leads to discrimination and renunciation, and practice of discrimination and renunciation, in turn, makes love for God manifest in aspirant's heart. The practical application of these concepts in our life makes us more cultured and civilized. We learn to imbibe higher and finer value-system in our lives. >> Dear Dr. Shah and everyone, One way to detach or renounce, and the only way that I know, is to experience the futility of desire. No desire can ever be satisfied. Satisfaction of desires simply stimulates more desire. No desire is ever satsified. What the ego is looking for in the world, in sense objects, is the experience of God. When we find that God is not in the satisfaction of our senses, we finally look within. Just like Buddha went out into the world and partied. He boogied the night away. Eventually, the party was over and there was nothing more to be gained. I do not know of any other way. Resistance causes persistence. Shanta Rasa as defined in Kashmir Shaivism is world-weariness. What a wonderful place to be....world-weariness. Then at last we find freedom; then at last we find what we seek. Om Shanti! Jody Hoelle (Premadevi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 1999 Report Share Posted June 16, 1999 Chapter 2 Verse 10 The high souled person witnesses his own body acting as if it were another's. As such, how can he be disturbed by praise or blame Verse 12 With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation? The last verse reminds one of Swami Vivekananda! jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Verse 12 With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation? What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of desire for liberation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Thanks! Edith for the sentence. i read the verse casually but ur comment made me look at it again seriously. In some stotraas sung for the lord it 's there that Lord i don't desire for liberation but love towards u. On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, EDTipple wrote: > EDTipple <edtipple > > Verse 12 > With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with > Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation? > > What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of > desire for liberation! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 1999 Report Share Posted June 17, 1999 Dear everyone, There is no difference between Self-knowledge and liberation. dr c s shah EDTipple wrote: > > EDTipple <edtipple > > Verse 12 > With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with > Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation? > > What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of > desire for liberation! > > ------ > Looking to expand your world? > > ONElist has 170,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ -- ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://come.to/neovedanta http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html ==================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 1999 Report Share Posted June 19, 1999 Dear Dr. Shah, Of course, we assume, there is no difference between Self-Knowledge and liberation. The point I wanted to make is that the same point is addressed from two different perspectives in this verse -- Self-knowledge, and the desire for liberation -- OR that the yearning for liberation is becalmed with Self-Knowledge. My enthusiasm is for the subtlety of language and, actually, the verse points to what you said: there is no difference between Self-knowledge and liberation. I just like the way the idea is approached here. Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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