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>

> Dr C S Shah [sMTP:drcssha]

> Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:09 PM

> Ramakrishna ; onelist

> Re: [ramakrishna] Astavakra

>

> Dr C S Shah <drcssha

>

> >>>Vivekananda Centre wrote:

> >>>After hearing oneself to be Pure Consciousness and surpassingly

> beautiful, how can one yet be deeply attached to sensual objects and

> thus become impure?<<<

>

> Dear Everybody,

>

> To effectively detach oneself from the stranglehold of sensual objects,

> discrimination - viveka - and dispassion (or renunciation)- vairagya -

> are required. As Sri Ramakrishna says:

>

> " Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and

> unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the

> world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden.

[Madhava Replies:]

 

Hari Om!

 

In a lighter sense, in deed one can very much get the renunciation

feeling, impromptu :-) Our elders categorized them as (1) SmaSAna vairAgya

(2) purANa vairAgya (3) prasooti vairAgya.

 

Everybody gets the renunciation feeling when they face the above

three situations, when ever those things happen in their life :-)

 

1. " smASAna vairAgya " : Either having seen a death or while

participating in a funeral procession --- everybody thinks very

philosophically as: " See the life.. yesterday he was with me today he is no

more, where did he go! Today it is him and who knows who is next? May be it

is me... What a life " :-)

 

2. " purANa vairAgya " : Everybody get quite philosophical while

listening to upanishadic lectures and they can not help but thinking about

the mundanity of existance! They think: " We have to do sadhana, tapasya...

we have to find an answer to this life before I succumb to death. " :-)

 

3. " prasooti vairAgya " : Getting philosophical at the maternity

time. I guess, I don't need to explain this :-)

 

There are also other situations where one gets quite philosophical.

One may try to renounce when one finds his life at peril. This kind of

renunciation is called as " vijeegisha sanyAsa " . Arjuna got this kind of

renunciation feeling during Mahabharata War. He tells krishna that he wants

to renounce and become a bhikshu: " hatvArtha kAmAMstu guroonihaiva srEyO

bhOktuM *bhaikshya* mapeeha lOkE.. " .

 

In and around haridvar and at other holy places in India, you can

find lots of " vijeegisha sanyasis " .

 

There are this other kind of people who, having fully understood the

mundanity of existance; having fully understood the right path shown --- by

the vidic seers, by the great masters, by the upanishads --- try to

renounce. This kind of sanyasa is called as " vidvat sanyAsa " . Swami

VivEkAnanda is a " vidvat sanyAsi " . He understood what is life and then he

renounced.

 

Om tat sat!

mAdhava

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In a message dated 6/15/99 9:58:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

drcssha writes:

 

<< To effectively detach oneself from the stranglehold of sensual objects,

discrimination - viveka - and dispassion (or renunciation)- vairagya -

are required. As Sri Ramakrishna says:

 

" Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and

unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the

world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. They must be practised

every day. One should renounce 'woman and gold' mentally first. Then, by

the will of God, one can renounce it both mentally and outwardly. "

 

Thus we see that Sri Ramakrishna has given great emphasis on conscious

and deliberate sadhana (spiritual practice) to inculcate these qualities

in our personality. The third element added to viveka and vairagya is

love - anuraga- for God. This third factor is the cause as well as the

effect of the first two. Devotion to God leads to discrimination and

renunciation, and practice of discrimination and renunciation, in turn,

makes love for God manifest in aspirant's heart.

The practical application of these concepts in our life makes us more

cultured and civilized. We learn to imbibe higher and finer value-system

in our lives. >>

 

Dear Dr. Shah and everyone,

 

One way to detach or renounce, and the only way that I know, is to experience

the futility of desire. No desire can ever be satisfied. Satisfaction of

desires simply stimulates more desire. No desire is ever satsified.

 

What the ego is looking for in the world, in sense objects, is the experience

of God. When we find that God is not in the satisfaction of our senses, we

finally look within.

 

Just like Buddha went out into the world and partied. He boogied the night

away. Eventually, the party was over and there was nothing more to be

gained. I do not know of any other way. Resistance causes persistence.

 

Shanta Rasa as defined in Kashmir Shaivism is world-weariness. What a

wonderful place to be....world-weariness. Then at last we find freedom; then

at last we find what we seek.

 

Om Shanti!

Jody Hoelle (Premadevi)

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Chapter 2

 

Verse 10

 

The high souled person witnesses his own body acting as if it were

another's.

As such, how can he be disturbed by praise or blame

 

Verse 12

With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with

Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation?

 

 

The last verse reminds one of Swami Vivekananda!

 

jay

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Verse 12

With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with

Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation?

 

What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of

desire for liberation!

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Thanks! Edith for the sentence. i read the verse casually but ur comment

made me look at it again seriously.

 

In some stotraas sung for the lord it 's there that Lord i don't desire

for liberation but love towards u.

 

 

On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, EDTipple wrote:

 

> EDTipple <edtipple

>

> Verse 12

> With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with

> Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation?

>

> What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of

> desire for liberation!

>

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Dear everyone,

There is no difference between Self-knowledge and liberation.

dr c s shah

 

EDTipple wrote:

>

> EDTipple <edtipple

>

> Verse 12

> With whom can we compare that great-souled one who is content with

> Self-knowledge and does not hanker even after liberation?

>

> What a wonderful meditation: Self-knowledge without even the taint of

> desire for liberation!

>

> ------

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>

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> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/

 

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Dear Dr. Shah,

 

Of course, we assume, there is no difference between Self-Knowledge

and liberation. The point I wanted to make is that the same point is

addressed from two different perspectives in this verse --

Self-knowledge, and the desire for liberation -- OR that the yearning

for liberation is becalmed with Self-Knowledge. My enthusiasm is for

the subtlety of language and, actually, the verse points to what you

said: there is no difference between Self-knowledge and liberation.

I just like the way the idea is approached here. Edith

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