Guest guest Posted June 20, 1999 Report Share Posted June 20, 1999 In a previous posting... > >Tim Gerchmez: > > I'm also too old to ever get started in a >> formal monastic program (I'll be 35 in August) > > >Tom: > >That is strange that you should feel that way, Tim. ******* I have in the past contacted a couple of hindu and buddhist monasteries and they were very reluctant to take on anyone over 35 for monastic vows...It seems that most of their monks are older, and they would like some " young blood " . I was informed that one can live a spiritual life as a householder, to which I could only reply " DUH! " . One would think that an older person (I myself am 40) who has seen enough of the world to know what he wants would be a suitable candidate for such an endeavor, but apparently not in America. Yet Life puts us where it wants us, and for that we must ultimately be grateful. Namaste, Thomas Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 1999 Report Share Posted June 20, 1999 In a message dated 6/20/99 8:23:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, arcanta writes: << but apparently not in America. >> I don't think this is only true in America. The rules for the Ramakrishna Order are that one cannot be older than 30 to become a Monk of the Order, which is unfortunate. I do believe that one of the primary reasons for this rule is the physical health and vigour of youth is more desirable in most monastic orders. As a person ages, so does his body, and consequently there is an assumption of a declination in health. It has always saddened me that the more spiritually and chronologically mature a person is, the less likelihood of his being accepted into a formal spiritual community. And yet it is taught that the last stage of life is when one naturally renounces the world and seeks God. I have never quite reconciled this all-pervading monastic rule since the urge to procreate is so strong in youth. I have seen many who, while living in a celibate community, struggle with the distraction their primal bodily urges create since youth is a time when those urges are most powerful. In the final stage of life, the imperious " urge to merge " cools down considerably, as one naturally turns within. At this time one has experienced the futility of being " of the world " , and at last experiences true wealth which comes from within. What has more value to those of us who seek guidance from a teacher? - physical strength and stamina, or spiritual maturity and wisdom, which include empathy and compassion for the struggles of living in THIS world that living in a cave does not provide? If a person has not lived in the world, he cannot empathize with the struggles of family life, relationships, career and finances. What has such a young monk to offer those of us who have immersed ourselves in worldly life and come out the other side with a great deal of experience and wisdom? As Swamiji said, experience is the ONLY TEACHER. All the scriputral studies in the world cannot give a young person the wisdom that living in this world can give. So, with all due respect to the financial hardship that may be placed on a spiritual order due to medical problems of older people, the whole idea of placing our spiritual quest in the hands of young, inexperienced scholars does not make sense to me. As these young monks age, only the struggles of worldly life can give them the necessary tools to be of service to the rest of us. It is an axiom that if a person does not pursue spirituality before the age of 30 there is no hope for transformation. This may or may not be true, but for those of us who are well over thirty and continue to transform and grow closer to the God of our understanding, it is a sad commentary that we are locked out of the monastic lifestyle because we are too old. It leads one to question the values of the powers that be. It seems to me that rather than discriminating on the basis of age, decisions about accepting an individual into monastic order would be made on a case by case, individual, basis. This seems to be the more intelligent way to go. Additionally, a person's emotional and mental stability come with age, and the ability to commit to monastic life, is far greater. The ability to commit to anything is greater with age. Om Shanti! Jody (Premadevi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 Dear Thomas and Tim, In defense of the monasteries: I have lived in many. I have seen men come and go. The main problem is not the age per se, it is the degree to which we have become " accustomed to our ways " by the age of 35 or so. Yes, there must be some exceptions, but mostly I've seen that the requirements of a highly structured lifestyle is pinching, demanding beyond the tolerance of many persons, who are usually individualistic. After a time of attempting to toe the line and adjust internally, most get turned off and go out, sometimes with rancor. Suggest reading a book called I WAS A MONK, by John Tettemer; I hope it's still available somewhere. The very fact that both of you are in this " chat-room " indicates a degree on non-conformity, doesn't it? I'm not being negative in that: non-conformity is fine in the right places! Regards, Swami Yogeshananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 In a message dated 99-06-20 18:54:00 EDT, JodyHolly1 writes: << It has always saddened me that the more spiritually and chronologically mature a person is, the less likelihood of his being accepted into a formal spiritual community. And yet it is taught that the last stage of life is when one naturally renounces the world and seeks God. >> I just had to respond to this...for, it so echos my feelings as well. It is sad that there are no spiritual communities that accept monastics at older ages, men or women. I remember when I was in my very early 30's my desire was tremendous to leave this world...still is, but I have better reconcilled myself to the fact that there is just no place to go. I use to cry almost every night thinking of having to return to the world the next day. <<If a person has not lived in the world, he cannot empathize with the struggles of family life, relationships, career and finances. What has such a young monk to offer those of us who have immersed ourselves in worldly life and come out the other side with a great deal of experience and wisdom? As Swamiji said, experience is the ONLY TEACHER. All the scriputral studies in the world cannot give a young person the wisdom that living in this world can give.>> Didn't Swamiji say once that the one bad thing about monastic life was that it removed the spiritual souls from the community? I agree. And, I think what you say is also true...only one who has been through the experience can really empathize with another. I have been around quite a few monastics in my life, listening, watching, observing....and I must say that for the most part they ARE out of touch with the types of problems that those living in the world contend with on a day to day basis. I remember being told once that the monastics " keep the fire burning " ...to which I replied...what good is the fire if no one can find it or see it because it is kept locked away behind walls, away from those who truly need to feel its heat. And then there is the arguement that one will find the " flame " when it is time...well what happens when one finds that flame and they are over 30? They have lost their taste for the world, yet they still must live in it. It's extremely difficult at times, yet, at present, I see no way out...especially in America, and especially for women. At least a man can become a wanderer...but that's ot really feaseable for a women. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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