Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 > FREESUE > > In a message dated 99-06-20 18:54:00 EDT, JodyHolly1 writes: > > << > I just had to respond to this...for, it so echos my feelings as well. It > is > sad that there are no spiritual communities that accept monastics at older > > ages, men or women. I remember when I was in my very early 30's my desire > > was tremendous to leave this world...still is, but I have better > reconcilled > myself to the fact that there is just no place to go. I use to cry almost > > every night thinking of having to return to the world the next day. >> Kathi: It was very interesting to read the various posts about sannyasa and its qualifications. Please understand that there is no such qualification as age in this matter. Within the Advaita Vedanta tradition, there are various schools of thought. Although they lay emphasis on different paths or sadhana, they ultimately believe in the divinity of the self. The Ramakrishna Order emphasizes a certain means to liberation maybe? Another order might emphasize intellectual accomplishment while another may advocate karma yoga. All of them have the same goal in mind but the variations are in the means of attaining it. The idea that no spiritual communities allow monastics at an old age is completely erroneous. I know Swamis who initiate people (both female & male) into Sannyasa even at a ripe old age (i'm not joking), but not necessarily the Ramakrishna Order. But the Ramakrishna Order has this special qualification due to many reasons but basically (from what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years ago on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. Maybe Swami Yogeshananda-ji can elaborate on this, if he thinks it is appropriate. >> I use to cry almost every night thinking of having to return to the world the next day. << Kathi: Sannyasa in not escapism. It is a mental attitude to face or understand the world as it is. Nobody can change the world, but one can change oneself. > <<Didn't Swamiji say once that the one bad thing about monastic life was > that > it removed the spiritual souls from the community? I agree. And, I think > > what you say is also true...only one who has been through the experience > can > really empathize with another. I have been around quite a few monastics > in > my life, listening, watching, observing....and I must say that for the > most > part they ARE out of touch with the types of problems that those living in > > the world contend with on a day to day basis. I remember being told once > that the monastics " keep the fire burning " ...to which I replied...what > good > is the fire if no one can find it or see it because it is kept locked away > > behind walls, away from those who truly need to feel its heat. > > And then there is the arguement that one will find the " flame " when it is > time...well what happens when one finds that flame and they are over 30? > They have lost their taste for the world, yet they still must live in it. > > It's extremely difficult at times, yet, at present, I see no way > out...especially in America, and especially for women. At least a man can > > become a wanderer...but that's ot really feaseable for a women. > Kathi: Maybe America could be a difficult place to be a mendicant. I would empathize that with you. But in India, there are many swaminis. Om SHanti Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 In a message dated 6/21/99 2:42:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << but basically (from what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years ago on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. >> Hi Kathi, What unique mission are you referring to? Even in the Catholic Church, a person is too old for monastic life. I know of NO orders that will accept people over the age of thirty. It would be wonderful if you would share specifics about those orders which do accept people over the age of 30. I have been around many ashrams and various Christian religions, and the rule is the same throughout...over 30 is too old. I'm surprised to hear otherwise. As I said, please provide specifics. Love, Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 In a message dated 6/21/99 2:42:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << I use to cry almost every night thinking of having to return to the world the next day. << Kathi: Sannyasa in not escapism. It is a mental attitude to face or understand the world as it is. Nobody can change the world, but one can change oneself. >> Hi again, Kathi, I don't think that Sue was saying that she wanted to escape from the world when she stated that she used to cry every night about having to return to the world. Superficially, it looks that way, but I understand her statement completely. When one's heart is touched by God, one wants to be with her Lover (the Divine), night and day. It is difficult to integrate into a world of materialism when one is so focused on God at CERTAIN STAGES of one's sadhana. This is not escapism; it is the natural result of the need to nurture and sustain the conscious contact one has made with Spirit. I understand that yearning so completely. It has taken me years to create a lifestyle in which I can stay focused on making a living while living with my Beloved. There was a period when I felt such a strong need to nurture my relationship with God and to pull out of the world. This is not escapism. It is a natural part of the process. It has been my life's commitment to create a balanced lifestyle and at times it has been extremely difficult. But, by the grace of God, I have been able to be in the world but not of it while maintaining a modicum of serenity. When one is in a meditative, contemplative state much of the time, that is not escapism. If anything, it can be more difficult than being IN the world. When one realizes Truth, one can no longer relate to the idiosyncracies of worldly minds. But, after a while, one can witness all of this play from a place of compassion and love, while maintaning inner silence. The world is, after all, a comedy of errors. Wouldn't you say? BEING IN THE WORLD CAN BE A SOURCE OF ESCAPISM. THE DISTRACTIONS FROM TRUTH ARE MANY. Once we have made that connection with God, God keeps guiding and pushing and directing us to what we need to do to nurture and deepen that connection. Sue, I would say it is important to follow your inner guidance, your yearning, your heartfelt need to stay in the company of your Beloved. Om Shanti! Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > Sunday, June 20, 1999 10:40 PM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 107 > > JodyHolly1 > > It has always saddened me that the more spiritually and chronologically > mature a person is, the less likelihood of his being accepted into a > formal > spiritual community. And yet it is taught that the last stage of life is > when one naturally renounces the world and seeks God. [Madhava Replies:] Dear Jody, Hari Om! Advaita is a path " Alone to The Alone all Alone... " . Though spiritual community is necessary for a little bit of time for the beginner, in my opinion, it is of no use when one starts advancing in sadhana. After some time, sadhaka feels pretty disturbed by people around him. He will try to find a quite place and will try to meditate. After all we can find nothing in the world, every thing is in side us. Let me share with you my own experience that I faced 10 years back: after having very much disturbed about the atmosphere in side the ashram --- one day I went crying to my guru, I asked her " mother, why should spiritual people also behave like all those worldly people? why do they behave like the same... though they are in side the ashram?... " she smiled and replied " They are the same five elements, they are the same trigunas, we are breathing the same air... we are sharing every thing on the same earth... it is the same people who enter in to the ashram, then what kind of change are you expecting *in* them? Think..., don't expect *anything* to change. You have to change. Either you accept or you reject, every thing is in *you*. Have a different vision like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. He could see mother in a woman, in whom everybody has seen a prostitute. Look at the world with a different vision, you can see a different world. Change yourself. Never complain about the world. It is the world created for you, exclusively by you. " > > > In the final stage of life, the imperious " urge to merge " cools down > considerably, as one naturally turns within. At this time one has > experienced the futility of being " of the world " , and at last experiences > true wealth which comes from within. [Madhava Replies:] After reading this I started wondering: Is the aging related to physical body? Is there really a final stage for the mind? How old is then the intellect? How old is *that* which is beyond all this? yOga ratOvA bhOga ratOvA saMga ratOvA saMga viheenaH yasya brahmaNi ramatE cittaM naMdati naMdati naMdatyEva || bhaja gOviMdaM.... Hari Om! -mAdhava > Om Shanti! > > Jody (Premadevi) > > ------ > Last chance to earn $5000 for your charity of choice! > > Deadline for " GROW TO GIVE " is June 19. See homepage for details. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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