Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 In a message dated 99-06-21 05:42:44 EDT, kathirasan writes: << Please understand that there is no such qualification as age in this matter. >> Inwardly no...there is no " qualification " of age for one to desire sannysasa... But, I am speaking of monastic life within the Ramakrishan Order...and there is an age restriction. <<The idea that no spiritual communities allow monastics at an old age is completely erroneous.>> Where? I know of none in America, that are not protestant or catholic oriented. And believe me I have searched. <<Kathi: Sannyasa in not escapism. It is a mental attitude to face or understand the world as it is. Nobody can change the world, but one can change oneself. >> One can understand the world " as it is " ...and still have no taste for it. You are in the world, but, not OF the world so to speak. However...escapism? Well perhaps not in a negative since, but those who have no taste for the world, and join some monastic order, ARE escaping from the burden of responsibilities that remaining in the world require...which in America are overwhelming. They also have the blessed fortune of being able to be surrounded by a spriritual atmosphere, and liked-minded spiritual company. Such atmosphere and company is hard to find " out there " in the world. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 In a message dated 99-06-21 17:30:18 EDT, JodyHolly1 writes: << It has taken me years to create a lifestyle in which I can stay focused on making a living while living with my Beloved. There was a period when I felt such a strong need to nurture my relationship with God and to pull out of the world. This is not escapism. It is a natural part of the process. >> Me as well. I might add that that crying period was approximately 18 years ago...and it has taken me about 15 of those 18 years to create that kind of lifestyle that you mention above. Tho at times, it is still limiting... <<The world is, after all, a comedy of errors. Wouldn't you say?>> Oh DEFINITELY!! Sometimes hilarious, and unfortunely sometimes tragic...learning to detach from the tragic without totally cutting off from people was extremely difficult to learn.... <<Sue, I would say it is important to follow your inner guidance, your yearning, your heartfelt need to stay in the company of your Beloved.>> This is what I continue to do...and I have managed, like you, to create a lifestyle that works, without too much difficulty....However, I must admit that if I ever found a monastic organization that accepted people beyond age 30...in the Vedantic tradition in America...I would jump fast! Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 We should not forget that community living takes a great deal of adjustment. The younger one is, the easier the adjustment. Swami Prabhavananda used to say that community living was the greatest sadhana of monastic life. Perhaps the greatest sadhana of a householder's life is interaction with all things of the world while protecting from view the spiritual yearning of the heart. edtipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 Dear Swami Yogeshananda, Please explain your remark, " The very fact that both of you are in this 'chat-room' indicates a degree on non-conformity, doesn't it? I'm not being negative in that: non-conformity is fine in the right places! " My question concerns the first statement. They are perhaps non-conformists in the fact of their interest in spiritual life, but does wishing to communicate with others of like mind make them more so? I would appreciate your ideas. Thank you, edtipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 Dear Sue, and all, I understand that the Catholic Orders take people " over-age " . And some are becoming quite liberal. I know a woman who left a Vedanta Convent after many years to join a Catholic convent in New York (O.S.H.) She now teaches Vedanta classes at the Convent! edtipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 1999 Report Share Posted June 21, 1999 Some ashrams r there back in India where one can devote ones life for watever duration one wants. On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 JodyHolly1 wrote: > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 6/21/99 2:42:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > kathirasan writes: > > << but basically (from > what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years ago > on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. >> > > Hi Kathi, > > What unique mission are you referring to? Even in the Catholic Church, a > person is too old for monastic life. I know of NO orders that will accept > people over the age of thirty. It would be wonderful if you would share > specifics about those orders which do accept people over the age of 30. > > I have been around many ashrams and various Christian religions, and the rule > is the same throughout...over 30 is too old. I'm surprised to hear > otherwise. As I said, please provide specifics. > > Love, > Jody > > ------ > Get involved. Share your thoughts! > > Join the ONElist Weekly Survey. Go to homepage for details. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 The Ramakrishna Order emphasizes a certain means to liberation maybe? Another order might emphasize intellectual accomplishment while another may advocate karma yoga. All of them have the same goal in mind but the variations are in the means of attaining it. The idea that no spiritual communities allow monastics at an old age is completely erroneous. I know Swamis who initiate people (both female & male) into Sannyasa even at a ripe old age (i'm not joking), but not necessarily the Ramakrishna Order. But the Ramakrishna Order has this special qualification due to many reasons but basically (from what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years ago on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. Maybe Swami Yogeshananda-ji can elaborate on this, if he thinks it is appropriate. Dear Kathi: The Ramakrishna Order's picture of the ideal monastic is one of blending, harmoniously, the four margas, or yogas, in a mature and integrated life. In the beginning we used to make exceptions for older people deemed worthy of it, and give sannyasa, even sometimes on the deathbed! This is hardly ever done now. I don't know about " unique mission " being the reason for it; I should think it due more to the way institutions calcify as they age, and as others pointed out, the expense for the Order in caring for aging bodies. (Besides the reasons I gave yesterday). Swami Yogeshananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > Monday, June 21, 1999 6:42 PM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 107 > > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 6/21/99 2:42:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > kathirasan writes: > > << but basically (from > what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years > ago > on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. >> > > Hi Kathi, > > What unique mission are you referring to? Even in the Catholic Church, a > person is too old for monastic life. [Madhava Replies:] Hari Om! I will look forward to hear Kathi's answer. Mean while, I would like to share my views on this topic. In my opinion, there is a need to understand what is monastic life and the reason people choose to live that way... I have already mentioned in one of my earlier mails that there are two kinds of people in this world who renounce (1) Those who renounce after gaining sufficient *knowledge* from the world (2) Those who renounce after gaining sufficient *troubles* in the world :-). In my opinion, the second kind of people are like patients. They get troubles and join the hospital. Mission is a hospital, the knowledgeble monks/gurus are the resident doctors. They listen to the patients, patiently :-), and give them the medicine of knowledge. No patient is supposed to stay in side the hospital for ever. After getting cured they should leave. Other wise, their stay will hinder the future patients from getting treatment in the hospital. The young monks are nothing but Doctors who are getting trained. As I understand it, the missionary purpose is to spread the knowledge. Significant amount of study is necessary in order to understand the scriptures and upanishads. Perhaps, that is also the reason why ramakrishna mission chooses people below the age of 30. Also Mission is entirely dependent on public funds. Mission can't keep taking people just because they are interested in renouncing! I would see Mission and Sanyas as separate entities. They don't mix much. Mission spreads knowledge/message. Sanyas is the result of knowledge. In my opinion, a true renouncer will renounce even the desire of depending on an ashram for food and shelter... > I know of NO orders that will accept > people over the age of thirty. It would be wonderful if you would share > specifics about those orders which do accept people over the age of 30. [Madhava Replies:] I came across many missions who accept people even after the age of 50! I know that my teacher has accepted Swamini krishnanda, when Krishnanda was 50 years old. I can recollect the names of 10 sanyasis who are living at present in the ashram, who renounced after crossing the age of 40. > I have been around many ashrams and various Christian religions, and the > rule > is the same throughout...over 30 is too old. I'm surprised to hear > otherwise. As I said, please provide specifics. > > > Love, > Jody > > ------ > Get involved. Share your thoughts! > > Join the ONElist Weekly Survey. Go to homepage for details. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 >EDTipple <edtipple > >Dear Swami Yogeshananda, > >Please explain your remark, " The very fact that both of you are in >this 'chat-room' indicates a degree on non-conformity, doesn't it? I'm >not being negative in that: non-conformity is fine in the right >places! " > >My question concerns the first statement. They are perhaps >non-conformists in the fact of their interest in spiritual life, but >does wishing to communicate with others of like mind make them more >so? I would appreciate your ideas. Thank you, >edtipple >Dear Edith, Thank you for giving me the chance to clarify what I said. Certainly I don't think the wish to communicate makes one unusually non-conformist. What I meant was, the very fact that we are taking part in this kind of a dialog by e-mail makes us non-comformist to a degree, and perhaps to such a degree as would not be appreciated in most monasteries. It is difficult to be " out-of-line " , even in an open-style monastery of the Ramakrishna Order--believe me, I know! Yours, Swami Yogeshananda >------ >Having difficulty getting " in synch " with list members? > >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! >------ >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >Vivekananda Centre London >http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 1999 Report Share Posted June 22, 1999 In a message dated 6/22/99 4:08:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, edtipple writes: << And I would add that not many people, either inside or outside a monastery, have the genuine desire to communicate; to preach perhaps, but not to communicate. What a joy it is. >> Praytell...what is this form of communication of which you speak? Inuendo is an ineffective form of communication. Straightforwardness is best. Let us be as clear as possible in our interactions with one another. Thank you. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 1999 Report Share Posted June 23, 1999 Thank you, Swami Yogeshananda, for your clarification. And I would add that not many people, either inside or outside a monastery, have the genuine desire to communicate; to preach perhaps, but not to communicate. What a joy it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 1999 Report Share Posted June 23, 1999 Namaste Jody and Sue I will contact you offline on your requests as it has nothing to do with this list. Thanks. Om Shanti Kathi > > JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1] > Monday, June 21, 1999 11:42 PM > Ramakrishna > Re: [ramakrishna] Digest Number 107 > > JodyHolly1 > > In a message dated 6/21/99 2:42:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > kathirasan writes: > > << but basically (from > what I know after a casual conversation I had with a swami a few years > ago > on this topic) it is due to their unique mission to the world. >> > > Hi Kathi, > > What unique mission are you referring to? Even in the Catholic Church, a > person is too old for monastic life. I know of NO orders that will accept > > people over the age of thirty. It would be wonderful if you would share > specifics about those orders which do accept people over the age of 30. > > I have been around many ashrams and various Christian religions, and the > rule > is the same throughout...over 30 is too old. I'm surprised to hear > otherwise. As I said, please provide specifics. > > Love, > Jody > > ------ > Get involved. Share your thoughts! > > Join the ONElist Weekly Survey. Go to homepage for details. > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 1999 Report Share Posted June 23, 1999 In a message dated 6/23/99 12:25:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kathirasan writes: << I will contact you offline on your requests as it has nothing to do with this list. Thanks. >> Kathi, You are a dear kind soul. I have not made any requests. I am simply dialoging as is Sue. Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 1999 Report Share Posted June 24, 1999 Dear Jody, << And I would add that not many people, either inside or outside a monastery, have the genuine desire to communicate; to preach perhaps, but not to communicate. What a joy it is. >> This was in response to a message from Swami Yogeshananda which I thought would be included. I'm sorry I can't repeat what he said which means that the response is unclear. Please just delete. Sorry. edtipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.