Why join monastry?

June 22, 1999

As I reflect:

I am surprised to read so much on the criticising the monasteries that they

are 'out of reach' or 'out of touch', 'they practice age-discrimination'

etc. First of all, one has to examine why one wants to join a monastery?

Is it to change a way of life? Or is it to depend for daily needs on some

organization? Or is it for self-evolution? Or for a vehicle to devote ones

life in a self-less work?

Monasteries are there to provide a spiritual training for those who deserve.

Monasteries have to survive on the public support and one should ask a

question why should public support the person? What is that I have to offer

in return to deserve that support? Considering the investment involved in

terms of public support, they like to train people who are capable of

serving in the world. This statement is not in defense of the monasteries

but looking correctly the existing situation. In olden days they used to

have gurukulaas and after the student has graduated he is asked to leave –

either to go and serve the country or form his own ashram somewhere and

fulfil his obligation to the society and to the teacher.

I do not see the need for any one to go in search of a monastery. My

teacher used to tell me – a flower does not go in search of a bee. Bee

shall come if the flower is ready. All it has to do is bloom itself and

keep it ready. Implication is that one has to evolve where one is. Within

one's limits one has to adjust to his environment to do his sadhana in terms

of his shravanam, mananam, nidhidhyaasanam. As someone noted that people

come and join the monasteries and leave since they cannot cope up with the

discipline there – why? Shree Madhava has recently pointed his teacher’s

advice to him when he went and complained about the people in that ashram.

The advice he received from Swamini Saradapriyanandaji is eye opening and

valid for all of us. One has to change oneself not the environment, I mean

obviously one's mind. That is the true sadhana. When one changes oneself,

the environment changes itself to suite the needs of the seeker. There is a

famous book “ St. Thomas of Assisi” by a great Greek author ( I forgot the

author’s name but he was a literary giant– It is a wonderful book to read )–

Whenever he sees something wrong outside, the saint disciplines himself

since his mind is not pure enough that he seeing something that is not

right!

There was a story in Mahabharat – it is said that Shree Krishna once asked

Duryodhana to go find good person in the world and Dharmaraja to go and find

a bad person in the world. Dhuryodhana came back and declared that he could

not find any good person in the world and Dharmaraja came back and declared

that he could not find a bad person in the world. The story illustrates

the mental state of each. If I have not prepared my mind, I find the same

defects that I have in the environment that surrounds me.

Shree Madhava in his recent post quoted the sloka from Bhajagovindam –

yogaratova bhogaratova ….

It is not the monastery that makes different but ones own mind. If I think

I am in need of a monastery for my growth, all that implies is I still want

some external agent for my sadhana, looking for something outside for help.

It will not work. Even if some monastery takes me, I will be out of that in

no time, because I am looking for some imaginary ideal environment that

suites my likes and dislikes which does not exist. Even in monasteries and

ashrams, as Madhava shared his personal experience, one finds the same world

of environment that one has left outside. The moral of the story is I

should prepare my mind first before I find a monastery. But if I have

prepared my mind properly then I do not need a monastery – I create one

where I am. I should seek an environment that is conducive to my likes and

dislikes and as I change, the environment that I seek also changes. Better

way of doing is to make use of whatever environment one is in to grow

oneself. What we have (including the type of environment we are in) is our

prarabda and what we do with what we have is purushaartha or self-effort.

Ultimately it becomes Lord’s responsibility to see that one is placed in

proper environment that one deserves. If we deserve a monastry then we

will find one or make one.

My strong advice is let us not criticize the monasteries that they are ‘out

of touch’ with the people like us! But let us seek to grow ourselves in

wherever we are so that monasteries grow around us. Lord knows what is best

for us. Since He is everywhere, let us see Him everywhere. If He thinks

and decides this is not the correct environment then He will come make

amends needed for our own growth. Let us surrender our will to Him that His

will, will be done.

I do not know how many have read the Autobiography of “Peace Pilgrim” – An

American lady in fifties who walked around the states – She created a

monastery around herself. Also the story of Ammaachi – a fisher-girl who

grow up, filled in an environment with full of animosities – yet she could

discover her Lord in that environment – looking back that is exactly what

she needed for her to grow up. Fully chiseled she is now a towering

personality, providing a shelter and solace to help people all over the

world. What monastery she went to grow up to this stage? What monastery

Bhagavaan Ramakrishna needed for him to grow? These are the lives of real

people that we see. Let us learn from them and grow in the path of the

light that they have shown us.

Hari Om!

Sadananda

June 22, 1999

In a message dated 6/22/99 10:44:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

k_sadananda writes:

<< If I have not prepared my mind, I find the same

defects that I have in the environment that surrounds me. >>

I suggest you may want to apply this to yourself. Your interpretation of

what has been written about the age limit on becoming a monk is according to

your samskaras, not the Spirit in which we have written about monasteries,

etc.

Jody

June 22, 1999

In a message dated 6/22/99 10:44:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

k_sadananda writes:

<< I am surprised to read so much on the criticising the monasteries that

they

are 'out of reach' or 'out of touch', 'they practice age-discrimination'

etc. >>

I think you missed the whole point my friend. We are simply having an open

and free dialogue about monastaries and the pros and cons of certain rules.

I do not believe that anyone was criticizing. This listserv is for

exploration of a variety of ideas. You need not criticize the rest of us

for expressing our thoughts on the subject. That is not why we dialogue

here. At least, I speak for myself.

God bless you.

Jody

June 22, 1999

In a message dated 99-06-22 13:44:29 EDT, k_sadananda writes:

<<

I am surprised to read so much on the criticising the monasteries that they

are 'out of reach' or 'out of touch', 'they practice age-discrimination'

etc. >>

I really don't think we were criticising...we were just discussing the topics

you mentioned above.

<<First of all, one has to examine why one wants to join a monastery?

Is it to change a way of life? Or is it to depend for daily needs on some

organization? Or is it for self-evolution? Or for a vehicle to devote ones

life in a self-less work?>>

I think this would be a good question for some of the monastics to respond

to. I would say...all of the above, and more. Service to the organizations

beliefs and ideals, service to the holy people residing there...to study, to

learn, to grow.

<<Monasteries are there to provide a spiritual training for those who

deserve. >>

Hum...I always thought it was to provide spiritual training for those who

were sincere in their seeking. Please define " deserve " .

<<Monasteries have to survive on the public support and one should ask a

question why should public support the person? What is that I have to offer

in return to deserve that support? Considering the investment involved in

terms of public support, they like to train people who are capable of

serving in the world.>>

This makes it sound like it's all about money. True monasteries survive by

god's grace. And each and every monk or nun offers their own unique

contribution to the monastery, large or small...

<<I do not see the need for any one to go in search of a monastery. My

teacher used to tell me – a flower does not go in search of a bee. Bee

shall come if the flower is ready. All it has to do is bloom itself and

keep it ready.>>

This teaching had little to do with monasteries. This was a teaching of

Ramakrishna's. It had to do with those who wanted to go about here and there

teaching...if I remember correctly. Basically he was saying there is no need

to go about here and there, that if there is true " honey " inside, the bee's

will come of their own accord. I think you might be confusing this with

another saying... " when the field is ready, the seed will come... " Which was

his response to those who wanted to know how to find a teacher.

<<It is not the monastery that makes different but ones own mind. If I think

I am in need of a monastery for my growth, all that implies is I still want

some external agent for my sadhana, looking for something outside for help.

It will not work. >>

If this were true, then why monasteries at all? We start where we are and

attempt to move forward. And, it's a long way for most to reach that point

where they can become their own " inner monastery/guide " . You must put a

protective " fence " around tender plants to protect them until their roots are

strong, and they are able to stand on their own...as a very wise soul once

said.

Sue

June 23, 1999

Namaste Sadhakas

Here is a prayer that we can take a minute to reflect upon.

Om saha naavavatu saha nau bhunaktu

Saha viryam karavaavahai,

Tejasvinaavadhitamastu maa vidvishaavahai,

Om Shaantih... Shaantih... Shaantih...

May the Lord protect us (by revealing Knowledge)

May He nourish us

May we work together with great vigour

May we acquire brilliance of intellect through our studies

May we never misunderstand each other.

Om Peace ! Peace ! Peace !

>

> JodyHolly1 [sMTP:JodyHolly1]

> Wednesday, June 23, 1999 2:08 AM

> Ramakrishna

> Re: [ramakrishna] Why join monastry?

>

> JodyHolly1

>

> In a message dated 6/22/99 10:44:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> k_sadananda writes:

>

> << If I have not prepared my mind, I find the same

> defects that I have in the environment that surrounds me. >>

>

> I suggest you may want to apply this to yourself. Your interpretation of

> what has been written about the age limit on becoming a monk is according

> to

> your samskaras, not the Spirit in which we have written about monasteries,

>

> etc.

>

> Jody

>

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