Thakur, savilkalpa/nirvikalpa samadhi

[Guest guest]

>I am sure you would have read Dr CS Shah's message

>on the visions of Thakur. Please treat this message on

>'savikalpa samadhi', as a small addendum to that message.

 

To those who replied to the question relating to savikapla samadhi, thank

you.

 

>Thakur says that he felt that the walls of the Divine Mother's

>shrine in Dakshineswar, at the time of His Vision of the Mother,

>seemed to, sort of, lose their material form and melt into an

>ocean of Light, which started proceeding from all sides of

>Thakur towards Him and engulfed Him from all sides, and

>he fell down unconscious, as it were.

 

>Obviously, since the Divine Mother's Form included the body

>of Sri Ramakrishna, the beholder of the Divine Form, the Light

>came and engulfed Him and He lost all consciouness of the

>outer world.

 

From this, it occured to me that it does not matter what form

the personal god comes as, and whether or not the personal god

is labeled as Krishna or Shiva or Kali but that the experience

of Atman is such that it includes, yet trancends the mere body

of the human form to the extent of the inclusion

of all conceptual forms (i.e., of concept itself (spanda shakti).

Yet the vision and experience of Atman is only half

the full experience, as Atman is only the universal form of Siva.

 

The experience of Atman is the experience of universal I (omnipresence),

omniscience and omnipotency (spanda/creation).

It is only with the submergence into the light, the consciousness of Atman,

that perhaps may be considered as nirvikalpa samadhi.

 

In sutra 8 of the Pratyabhijnahrydayam, Jaideva Singh explained,

*****************************************************************

 

" Thus of the one Divine whose essence is consciousness, all these roles are

displayed by his absolute will, (and) the differences in the roles are due

to the various gradations in which that absolute free will either chooses to

reveal or conceal itself. Therefore there is one Atman only pervading all

these (roles).

 

Those of limited vision, however, in various parts are caused to identify

themselves with the various (limited) stages by His will on account of

which, even though when it is made clear that the essential reason of the

erroneous concepts of the preceding experients lies in their identification

with the body etc., they are unable to comprehend the great pervasion (of

the Atman) described above (by Trika philosophy, vix., that the Atman is

both immanent in the universe and transcends it) unless the Sakti of the

Highest descend upon them (i.e. without the grace of the Highest). "

 

End quote

******************************

 

To attain savikalpa samadhi - is to merge into and become one with the

universal form/body of Siva/Atman.

 

To attain nirvikalpa samadhi on the other hand - is to attain the

" Consciousness " of Siva Himself (the one having realized that he is

Siva/Atman himself, transcends that very form of himself and realizes that

he himself is nothing but the very Consciousness of siva himself)

transcendent of his own form, where there is nothing but consciousness of

" Consciousness " eg. beyond all form. This is the Turiya state.

 

It is to become Siva himself in himself as he knows himself, beyond form

unbound by the existence of form.

 

The Turiya, (the state beyond states, unity of the waking, dream and deep

sleep states, the stateless state), is the infinite living " Consciousness "

of Siva (his very " Consciousness " itself.)

 

To attain this state and remain living,

is to live continuously in nirvikalpa samadhi.

 

Quote from Chapter 4 of Avudhuta Gita of Dattatreya

***************************************************

 

11. There is nothing dividing, nothing to be divided.

I have nothing to know with and nothing to be known.

How shall I then speak of coming and going?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

12. I have no body or bodilessness -

nor have I intelligence, mind or senses.

How shall I speak of attachment and detachment?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

13. The Self is not separate or high -

and it has not disappeared even to the extent of allusion.

Friend, how can I speak of it as identical or different?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

14. Neither have I conquered the senses -

nor have I not conquered them.

Self-restraint or discipline never occured to me.

Friend how can I speak of victory and defeat?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

15. Never have I form or absence of form,

Never any begininning, middle, or end.

Friend how can I speak of strength and weakness?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

16. Never did I have death or deathlessness -

poison or poisonlessness. How can I speak

of pure and impure?

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

End quote

*********************************************************

 

 

It is Siva' consciousness interacting through the body/jiva with himself

consciously as Consciousness.

 

Whereas to fall into nirvikalpa samadhi and die (it is said in the various

scriptures that if one remains in it longer than 3 weeks, one may die). It

is said that, that one dies into Siva.

 

This however is debatable due to the following..........

 

This death occurs due to the fact that the yogi who has not yet let go of

the belief that

he she is the body (hence an existent one who is in samadhi dies " who did

this dying? " , Who dies here?) and so seeks to transcend the body by leaving

the body.

 

However, he/she may or may not realize that it is the transcendence of the

individual I-Consciousness (not just the body) and the merging of that

consciousness in Siva' " Consciousness " that connotes the surrendering of

ownership of that very consciousness; at the moment of surrender the

individual consciousness is taken into the absolute Consciousness by the

very will of that Consciousness itself; (It is not possible for the

individual consciousness, to itself merge itself, in the absolute

Consciousness as that would be an act of will on that part of that

individual consciousness.)

and in that moment Siva' " Consciousness " becomes conscious in that very One

as that one.

 

To live in the Turiya, is to have transcended all forms and all bodies. It

is to live in the form as the Consciousness itself, which is both form and

beyond form.

 

The deliberate act of going into Nirvikalpa samadhi with the intention of

dying for the purpose of the realization of the Turiya state is non -

different than staying alive and realizing it.

 

But, when the ego consciously seeks from the seventh centre back to its

source of the eighth turiya Heart Centre, the ego dives into the ocean of

Brahman and is dissolved completely, as described by Thakur, like a salt

doll which went to measure the depth of the ocean.

 

This experience is subject-objectless and hence it is stated by Thakur to be

'undefiled' or not expressed. This is so, because there is none apart from

the Supreme Self to describe it, the ego which was the apparent second false

self, having been eaten up by the Supreme Self, with no possibility of

return.

 

However, like a salt doll which went to measure the depth of the ocean, so

also does the form of Siva/Atman merge into His own Consciousness as that

very Consciousness. (Atman merges into nirvikalpa samadhi as the

Consciousness itself).

 

Quote from Chapter 4 of Avudhuta Gita of Dattatreya

***************************************************

 

Chapter 4.

 

1. There is neither invitation nor casting off;

How can there be flowers, leaves,

meditations and recitation of sacred texts,

and how can there be worship of Siva -

which is identity in non-difference?

 

2. The absolute is not liberated from bondage and obstruction.

The absolute is not purified, cleansed and released.

The absolute is not liberated by union or separation.

I am indeed the free One, like the sky.

 

3. I have developed no false notion

that all this reality come into existence

or that all this unreality comes into existence.

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

4. Stained, stainless, divided, undivided -

differentiated, none of these appear to me.

I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished.

 

End quote

*********************************************************

[Guest guest]

yes well said

 

 

 

Dr C S Shah <drcssha

Ramakrishna <Ramakrishna >; sulea

<sulea

Saturday, July 10, 1999 8:39 PM

Re: [ramakrishna] Thakur, savilkalpa/nirvikalpa samadhi

 

 

>Dr C S Shah <drcssha

>

>Dear friend,

>In nutshell, it can be said that:

>When the Universal Consciousness is divisible in only two : one of the

>sadhaka and the second as his Ishtha (Chosen Ideal), that phase of

>consciousness is called Savikalpa Samadhi;

>And,

>When The Universal Consciousness exists as It is ; i.e. without any

>modification (not one nor two!); when sadhaka and his Ishtha become one,

>when nothing else exists but One Existence, then that stage is called

>nirvikalpa samadhi.

>

>dr c s shah

>

>--

>====================================

>E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit:

> http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html

> http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/details.html

>====================================

>

>

>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------

>

>Congratulations KNICKS (AT) ONElist (DOT) com. Our latest ONElist of the week.

>

>How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know!

>

>------

>Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

>Vivekananda Centre London

>http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/

>