Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Namaste! This is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading everyone's insightful thoughts here for a few months. It really does make for fascinating reading! Now, being an initiated Vedanta Society member, I have the deepest respect for all forms of worship. But I have to admit to being deeply troubled by the animal sacrifice to Kali as portrayed in Elizabeth Harding's book " Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar " . I know that in the West many of us eat meat, and most of us wear leather or otherwise use animal products.I am also aware that animal sacrifice was part of the Hebrew tradition, as well as part of the Muslim pilgrimage. So I don't mean to single out the worshippers of Kali. It is just that the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda tradition is so high-minded, and so willing to change mores to make them more current (take, for example, the much more enlightened view of women in the RV tradition). So...what I want to know is this. Does the Ramakrishna Order in India condone the sacrifice of animals, or simply tolerate it as a holdover from a more brutal past? What of ahimsa? Can causing another creature suffering persuade Divine Mother to look favorably upon the sacrificer? Remember, the Buddha offered himself as sacrifice in order to save an animal--wasn't that an example of truly divine behavior? Ms. Harding asks in her book, " One wonders what (the sacrificial animal would say) it prefers...to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the sacrificial pole of Kali " . To be frank....at least the butcher is merely trying to make a living, and ot claiming his behavior has a divine decree. ac \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 Dear Allan and friends, With times the rituals and traditions change. dr c s shah -- ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html ==================================== Allan Carpenter wrote: > ALLANC (Allan Carpenter) > Namaste! > This is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading > everyone's insightful thoughts here for a few months. It really does > make for fascinating reading! > > Now, being an initiated Vedanta Society member, I have the deepest > respect for all forms of worship. But I have to admit to being deeply > troubled by the animal sacrifice to Kali as portrayed in Elizabeth > Harding's book " Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar " . > > I know that in the West many of us eat meat, and most of us wear leather > or otherwise use animal products.I am also aware that animal sacrifice > was part of the Hebrew tradition, as well as part of the Muslim > pilgrimage. So I don't mean to single out the worshippers of Kali. > > It is just that the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda tradition is so high-minded, > and so willing to change mores to make them more current (take, for > example, the much more enlightened view of women in the RV tradition). > > So...what I want to know is this. Does the Ramakrishna Order in India > condone the sacrifice of animals, or simply tolerate it as a holdover > from a more brutal past? What of ahimsa? Can causing another creature > suffering persuade Divine Mother to look favorably upon the sacrificer? > Remember, the Buddha offered himself as sacrifice in order to save an > animal--wasn't that an example of truly divine behavior? > > Ms. Harding asks in her book, " One wonders what (the sacrificial animal > would say) it prefers...to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the > sacrificial pole of Kali " . To be frank....at least the butcher is > merely trying to make a living, and ot claiming his behavior has a > divine decree. > > ac > > \ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist announces " FRIENDS & FAMILY! " > > See homepage for details, including our weekly drawing! > > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 This is in response to Mr Alan Carpenter's doubt about animal sacrifice to the goddess Kali. From my understanding of the religion, I have come to understand that any kind of animal sacrifice is not encouraged, or even accepted in Hinduism. Hinduism sends out a clear message that God is in everything. As such animal sacrifice is not a hindu practice. Ignorance and lack of understanding of the religion have led to such practices over the centuries. This kind of worship may be practiced in some remote areas where literacy is low and among tribal poor. It would be best that we see this in a different light and not associate it with Hinduism or with the goddess Kali; mother's Kali-like appearance should not be construed as a demand from her for sacrificial blood. Perhaps Elizabeth Harding herself did not see it right and construed animal sacrifice as a hindu practice to appeace the goddess Kali. Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda are noble souls and are perfect examples of great hindus; their way of life is a hindu's way of life. Like other faiths, there are deviationists who call themselves hindus and practice certain rites which in the process hurt the religion as a whole. A drop of ink stains a glassful of water. - Allan Carpenter <ALLANC <Ramakrishna > Thursday, July 22, 1999 7:55 PM [ramakrishna] Kali's Sacrifice > ALLANC (Allan Carpenter) > > Namaste! > > This is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading > everyone's insightful thoughts here for a few months. It really does > make for fascinating reading! > > Now, being an initiated Vedanta Society member, I have the deepest > respect for all forms of worship. But I have to admit to being deeply > troubled by the animal sacrifice to Kali as portrayed in Elizabeth > Harding's book " Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar " . > > I know that in the West many of us eat meat, and most of us wear leather > or otherwise use animal products.I am also aware that animal sacrifice > was part of the Hebrew tradition, as well as part of the Muslim > pilgrimage. So I don't mean to single out the worshippers of Kali. > > It is just that the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda tradition is so high-minded, > and so willing to change mores to make them more current (take, for > example, the much more enlightened view of women in the RV tradition). > > So...what I want to know is this. Does the Ramakrishna Order in India > condone the sacrifice of animals, or simply tolerate it as a holdover > from a more brutal past? What of ahimsa? Can causing another creature > suffering persuade Divine Mother to look favorably upon the sacrificer? > Remember, the Buddha offered himself as sacrifice in order to save an > animal--wasn't that an example of truly divine behavior? > > Ms. Harding asks in her book, " One wonders what (the sacrificial animal > would say) it prefers...to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the > sacrificial pole of Kali " . To be frank....at least the butcher is > merely trying to make a living, and ot claiming his behavior has a > divine decree. > > ac > > \ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist announces " FRIENDS & FAMILY! " > > See homepage for details, including our weekly drawing! > > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 Hi, I strongly feel that meat eating should be avoided at any cost. If one looks at the way how animals are killed by the butcher, anyone who has kind heart and love for animals would cry for those poor animals. Though Hinduism as such never encourages meat-eating, it does not force anybody to stop meat-eating. Infact hinduism never forces anything on anybody. It only gives us guidelines, and it is for the individuals to accept them or not. On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Allan Carpenter wrote: > ALLANC (Allan Carpenter) > > Namaste! > > This is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading > everyone's insightful thoughts here for a few months. It really does > make for fascinating reading! > > Now, being an initiated Vedanta Society member, I have the deepest > respect for all forms of worship. But I have to admit to being deeply > troubled by the animal sacrifice to Kali as portrayed in Elizabeth > Harding's book " Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar " . > > I know that in the West many of us eat meat, and most of us wear leather > or otherwise use animal products.I am also aware that animal sacrifice > was part of the Hebrew tradition, as well as part of the Muslim > pilgrimage. So I don't mean to single out the worshippers of Kali. > > It is just that the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda tradition is so high-minded, > and so willing to change mores to make them more current (take, for > example, the much more enlightened view of women in the RV tradition). > > So...what I want to know is this. Does the Ramakrishna Order in India > condone the sacrifice of animals, or simply tolerate it as a holdover > from a more brutal past? What of ahimsa? Can causing another creature > suffering persuade Divine Mother to look favorably upon the sacrificer? > Remember, the Buddha offered himself as sacrifice in order to save an > animal--wasn't that an example of truly divine behavior? > > Ms. Harding asks in her book, " One wonders what (the sacrificial animal > would say) it prefers...to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the > sacrificial pole of Kali " . To be frank....at least the butcher is > merely trying to make a living, and ot claiming his behavior has a > divine decree. > > ac > > \ > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist announces " FRIENDS & FAMILY! " > > See homepage for details, including our weekly drawing! > > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 I have to wonder a little about your statement that perhaps this is practiced in remote areas, among the poor tribal peoples...I once worked for Mother Teresa at the home for the dying destitute in Calcutta. This is located right next to the big Kali Temple, where animal sacrifices were taking place at the time I was there. Ron - Purush <purush <Ramakrishna > Thursday, July 22, 1999 7:51 PM Re: [ramakrishna] Kali's Sacrifice > " Purush " <purush > > This is in response to Mr Alan Carpenter's doubt about animal sacrifice to > the goddess Kali. From my understanding of the religion, I have come to > understand that any kind of animal sacrifice is not encouraged, or even > accepted in Hinduism. Hinduism sends out a clear message that God is in > everything. As such animal sacrifice is not a hindu practice. Ignorance > and lack of understanding of the religion have led to such practices over > the centuries. This kind of worship may be practiced in some remote areas > where literacy is low and among tribal poor. It would be best that we see > this in a different light and not associate it with Hinduism or with the > goddess Kali; mother's Kali-like appearance should not be construed as a > demand from her for sacrificial blood. Perhaps Elizabeth Harding herself > did not see it right and construed animal sacrifice as a hindu practice to > appeace the goddess Kali. Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda are noble > souls and are perfect examples of great hindus; their way of life is a > hindu's way of life. Like other faiths, there are deviationists who call > themselves hindus and practice certain rites which in the process hurt the > religion as a whole. A drop of ink stains a glassful of water. > > > - > Allan Carpenter <ALLANC > <Ramakrishna > > Thursday, July 22, 1999 7:55 PM > [ramakrishna] Kali's Sacrifice > > > > ALLANC (Allan Carpenter) > > > > Namaste! > > > > This is the first time I've posted, although I've been reading > > everyone's insightful thoughts here for a few months. It really does > > make for fascinating reading! > > > > Now, being an initiated Vedanta Society member, I have the deepest > > respect for all forms of worship. But I have to admit to being deeply > > troubled by the animal sacrifice to Kali as portrayed in Elizabeth > > Harding's book " Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar " . > > > > I know that in the West many of us eat meat, and most of us wear leather > > or otherwise use animal products.I am also aware that animal sacrifice > > was part of the Hebrew tradition, as well as part of the Muslim > > pilgrimage. So I don't mean to single out the worshippers of Kali. > > > > It is just that the Ramakrishna-Vivekananda tradition is so high-minded, > > and so willing to change mores to make them more current (take, for > > example, the much more enlightened view of women in the RV tradition). > > > > So...what I want to know is this. Does the Ramakrishna Order in India > > condone the sacrifice of animals, or simply tolerate it as a holdover > > from a more brutal past? What of ahimsa? Can causing another creature > > suffering persuade Divine Mother to look favorably upon the sacrificer? > > Remember, the Buddha offered himself as sacrifice in order to save an > > animal--wasn't that an example of truly divine behavior? > > > > Ms. Harding asks in her book, " One wonders what (the sacrificial animal > > would say) it prefers...to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the > > sacrificial pole of Kali " . To be frank....at least the butcher is > > merely trying to make a living, and ot claiming his behavior has a > > divine decree. > > > > ac > > > > \ > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > ONElist announces " FRIENDS & FAMILY! " > > > > See homepage for details, including our weekly drawing! > > > > ------ > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > Vivekananda Centre London > > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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