Guest guest Posted August 2, 1999 Report Share Posted August 2, 1999 Namaste to Karen and All My thoughts are stated within the text. Regards. > > Westend Ashram at Colorado Springs [sMTP:urbanashram] > Monday, August 02, 1999 3:34 PM > Ramakrishna > [ramakrishna] Vendanta and the Psyche > > Westend Ashram at Colorado Springs <urbanashram >> > I was engaged this weekend in discussions with a friend who had been very > disillusioned by the what she perceived as many Vedantists' escapist > ideas. In > her mind, many Vedantists' " deny " their emotional and psychological self, > and > seek to focus only on the Trancendental, which to my friend seems false > and > hypocritical if one has not taken care of the psychological plane. My > friend has > a Vedanta and inter-faith background (and is a psychologist). << > Kathi: Swami Vivekananda-ji is a splendid example of a person with a > heightend mind and a big heart. So much so that Sister Nivedita (was it > her? ) said that he had the intellect of Shankara and the heart of > Ramanuja. Maybe a recommendation to read the works of Swamiji would be of > help to your friend to understand how one can be a vedantist and yet admit > the emotional side of things. It is true that Vedanta appeals to the > intellect, but Practical Vedanta (a term coined by Swamiji) preached by > Swamiji cannot work without a heart, I think. > >> > Now, I will try to present her feeling, though I am sure I will do it > poorly. To > her, all is a manifestation of the Mother. Period. That includes the > psyche. The > phrases Sahaja Samadhi versus Nirvikalpa samadhi came up during this > discussion, > I think the point being that if I do not see the psyche as God then it is > because I am experiencing separation rather than unity. I am experiencing > " level > confusion. " Also the phrases the " immanent " God in an unconscious > creation > versus creation that was conscious of its divinity, versus the > " transcendent " > God came up in this conversation. To her the psyche is very important and > she > sees no separation between it and other experience. So we spent quite a > bit of > time discussing my psyche. She believes in being pro-active about the > psyche's > health, and that this is very important to spiritual life. But for me, > the > " focus " on that aspect was very unbalanced in our visit. Her view is that > that > is God as well, so why am I resistant? My view is, " I am not interested in > my > personality issues unless they are causing problems " . ) << > Kathi: Karen, don't you think Vedanta is like vitamin to the mind? It > strengthens the will (I recall those potent quotes from Jody just minutes > ago). So in another way, Vedanta makes the mind healthy, doesn't it? So > knowing Vedanta is also part of being pro-active in keeping the psyche > healthy. In fact, Vedanta is not only interested in the Transcendental > but also the phenomenal. As you see, putting the Vedantic ideas into > practice belongs to the phenomenal. The psyche is operating. > >> > On the other hand, I very much want to reach out to my friend and try to > understand her point of view. She has had bad experiences with the Vedanta > movement. In general, they did not agree with her and kind of even shunned > her > (her description), which I can begin to understand if she was always > trying to > (I hate to use this phrase, for it resonates too closely with her idea of > escapism, but it was the first that came to mind: ) drag their minds down > to the > psychological level. But she seems to feel that may I somehow can be a > healing > friend for her in this area, since I agree with her somewhat but not > totally, > and am accepting of her -- I am not trying to " transcendentalize " her. << > Kathi: I've had many bad experiences with Christian Missionaries and > everyone of them either shunned me or threw the vedantic views I had just > because I said, " Truth is One, but its manifestations many " . But I still > have that deep love for Christ no matter what those people are going to > say. Why should the actions of the so called Vedantists cloud the > judgment that one makes on Vedanta. > >> > So, if anyone can offer me insights into these issues, your experience of > Vedanta, how you balance these things in your own life and practice, I > would be > grateful. I am really open and promise not to be critical of your honest > thoughts, as we are all different. I hope to grow in my understanding. If > not, I > shall say simply that I am a " small pot " and " my brain is full " :-) OM > TAT SAT. << > Kathi: Karen, it in very nice of you to share your experiences with the > list. Take care and thanks for reminding me to swallow that pill (Vitamin > V). > > OM Shanti > Kathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 1999 Report Share Posted August 4, 1999 Dear Kathi, Thank you for all your insights. My responses below! Namaste, Karen K Kathirasan ADM NCS wrote: > > > Kathi: Swami Vivekananda-ji is a splendid example of a person with a > > heightend mind and a big heart. So much so that Sister Nivedita (was it > > her? ) said that he had the intellect of Shankara and the heart of > > Ramanuja. Maybe a recommendation to read the works of Swamiji would be of > > help to your friend to understand how one can be a vedantist and yet admit > > the emotional side of things. It is true that Vedanta appeals to the > > intellect, but Practical Vedanta (a term coined by Swamiji) preached by > > Swamiji cannot work without a heart, I think. > > > > Thank you. I have also enjoyed Swami V's writings immensely throughout the years. My friend actually has no problem with Vedanta itself, considering it a very broad and all-inclusive path. I really think she is simply trying to work through some specific experiences. > > > Kathi: Karen, don't you think Vedanta is like vitamin to the mind? It > > strengthens the will (I recall those potent quotes from Jody just minutes > > ago). So in another way, Vedanta makes the mind healthy, doesn't it? So > > knowing Vedanta is also part of being pro-active in keeping the psyche > > healthy. In fact, Vedanta is not only interested in the Transcendental > > but also the phenomenal. As you see, putting the Vedantic ideas into > > practice belongs to the phenomenal. The psyche is operating. > > I do agree. The psyche is a vehicle, perhaps I could put it that way, for the inner work. > > > Kathi: I've had many bad experiences with Christian Missionaries and > > everyone of them either shunned me or threw the vedantic views I had just > > because I said, " Truth is One, but its manifestations many " . But I still > > have that deep love for Christ no matter what those people are going to > > say. Why should the actions of the so called Vedantists cloud the > > judgment that one makes on Vedanta. > > (An aside - I have a similar love for Christ and know just what you are saying!) No, she loves Vedanta actually. (Cut to Peanuts cartoon, Linus saying " I love mankind, it's people I can't stand.) It's just some of the specific experiences she has had. I am trying to understand her complete faith that sees the Mother in the psyche and sees me as lacking in equal-sightedness because I don't like to focus there. Perhaps I am missing something that she can see! But can't one be perceiving and honoring the immanent (God within form) and at the same time discriminate where to put ones energy? (E.g., Honor the psyche, but not desire to put one's attention there... Honor the elephant, but listen to the mahout shouting to get out of the way! :-) ) Is that same discrimination not alight with the Divine? Are not our differing views both alight with the same? And wouldn't it be equally divine if I would just shut up! Time to take my 'Vitamins' :-) thanks again Kathi and everyone for all your insights. -- Karen Westend Ashram > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. > Apply online today! /ad/nextcard1 > > ------ > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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