Guest guest Posted September 22, 1999 Report Share Posted September 22, 1999 Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/ ------ There are 15 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. Re: Some simple answers.... Anurag Goel <anurag 2. Daily Sutra <omtatsat 3. Re: simplicity Dr C S Shah <drcssha 4. Messages from God " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda 5. Mesg from Dhaka " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda 6. Absolute Truth Prashant G <gprasha 7. Very long but interesting article on science and maya " Swaminathan Venkataraman " <nachiketas 8. Re: Absolute Truth Anurag Goel <anurag 9. Re: Very long but interesting article on science and maya " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda 10. RE: Absolute Truth K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan 11. Gita Dr C S Shah <drcssha 12. Intuition Dr C S Shah <drcssha 13. Re: Absolute Truth EDTipple <edtipple 14. RE: simplicity " MAHESH LAD " <mlad 15. I will live Forever K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 1 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:06:13 +0530 (IST) Anurag Goel <anurag Re: Some simple answers.... Dear Shankar, yes i have heard abt " Sudarshan Kriya Yoga " . Yes can be that it's a modification of Kriya Yoga given by Swani Yogananda. I will try finding those cassetes from friends back here. __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 2 21 Sep 1999 03:30:11 -0700 <omtatsat Daily Sutra ~~~~~~ om shanthi om~~~~~~ Excerpted from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna p.94 Wednesday 22/9/99 The Master Said: " The one goal of life is to cultivate love for God, the love that the milkmaids, the milkmen, and the cowherd boys of VrindAvan felt for Krishna. When Krishna went away to MathurA, the cowherds roamed about weeping bitterly because of their seperation from Him. " om tat sat ~~~~~~ om shanthi om~~~~~~ RE: Message: 7 Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:56:52 +0530 " Dynes " <dynes simplicity One of the hallmarks about Hinduism is its simplicity. But I have seen a few swamijis wear rich (almost like silk) robes. I do not want to name them and create a controversy as the purpose of my query is only for the sake of knowledge. I just want to know if its not wrong for swamijis to wear such clothes. R. Dinakaran _____________________________ Comment: Namaste R. Dinakaran, The three Gunas [strands] are evident in every aspect of devotion...some devotees have more of a propensity towards " Sattva " ....others, " rajas " ...and yet some have more " Tamasic " attributes. The following quotes from the Gospel of Ramakrishna, illustrate most admirably, this concept: Excerpted from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna p.146 The Master Said: " A devotee who possesses sattvic bhakti, meditates on God in absolute secret, perhaps inside his mosquito net. Others think he is asleep. Since he is late in getting up, they think perhaps he has not slept well during the night. His love for the body goes only as far as appeasing his hunger, and that only by means of rice and simple greens. There is no elaborate arrangements about his meals, no luxury in clothes, and no display of furniture. Besides, such a devotee never flatters anyone for money. " om tat sat Excerpted from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna p.147 The Master Said: " An aspirant possessed of rAjasic bhakti puts a tilak on his forehead and a necklace of holy rudrAksha beads, interspersed with gold ones, around his neck. At worship he wears a silk cloth. " This last comment brought forth laughter among the devotees om tat sat Excerpted from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna p.147 The Master Said: " A man endowed with tAmasic bhakti has burning faith. Such a devotee literally exhorts boons from God, even as a robber falls upon a man and plunders his money. " om tat sat ______________________________ om shanthi om +om ____ 123India - India's Premier Search Engine Get your Free Email Account at http://www.123india.com __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 3 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:54:40 +0530 Dr C S Shah <drcssha Re: simplicity Dear friends, Sri Ramakrishna said, " You can spend huge money on luxuries, but if a sadhu asks for a few annas for his smoke, he is said to have luxury of smoking pipe!!! " Such minor considerations of clothes and food of sanyasins should bother us, its a pity. We fail to see their spirituality that should be the touchstone to judge them. Once Swami Brahmananda and his company had a good laugh when a newcomer was waiting to see him. On hearing his huge laughter the newcomer said, " What a pity. The sadhu is laughing like an ordinary person. He should be sober. There is no point in meeting him. " When Swami Brahmananda came to know this, he said, " Good riddance, we don't want such superficial fellows to judge us. " dr c s s ================================================================ > Dynes wrote: > One of the hallmarks about Hinduism is its simplicity. But I have seen a few swamijis wear rich (almost like silk) robes. I do not want to name them and create a controversy as the purpose of my query is only for the sake of knowledge. I just want to know if its not wrong for swamijis to wear such clothes. > R. Dinakaran -- ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html ==================================== __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 4 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:23:24 +0100 " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda Messages from God >From a post we received>> Recently a Ft. Lauderdale advertising agency launched a billboard campaign (including the inside and outside of buses) that included 17 different messages from God. This non-denominational campaign started in September sponsored by an anonymous client. 1. " Let's Meet At My House Sunday Before the Game " -God 2. " C'mon Over And Bring The Kids " - God 3. " What Part of " Thou Shalt Not... " Didn't You Understand? " - God 4. " We Need To Talk " - God 5. " Keep Using My Name in Vain And I'll Make Rush Hour Longer " -God. 6. " Loved The Wedding, Invite Me To The Marriage " -God 7. " That " Love Thy Neighbor " Thing, I Meant It. " - God 8. " I Love You...I Love You...I Love You... " -God 9. " Will The Road You're On Get You To My Place? " -God 10. " Follow Me. " - God 11. " Big Bang Theory, You've Got To Be Kidding. " -God 12. " My Way Is The Highway. " - God 13. " Need Directions? " - God 14. " You Think It's Hot Here? " - God 15. " Tell The Kids I Love Them. " - God 16. " Need a Marriage Counselor? I'm Available. " -God 17. " Have You Read My #1 Best Seller? There Wil Be A Test. " - God __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 5 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:31:43 +0100 " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda Mesg from Dhaka The Vivekananda Centre attempts to reach out and develop closer links with all bodies (and individuals) -- affiliated or unaffiliated to the Ramakrishna movement. We received the following interesting message this morning. =========mesg from Dhaka - 21 Sept======= We have your e-mail of August 18th. I am very interested in your holy work of propagation of the ideals of the Holy Trinity. My hearty thanks to you. Please write to me every now and then and especially when needed. I shall try my best to help you in your efforts as my humble puja to the Trinity. With loving namaskaras, Yours sincerely, Swami Sthiratmananda A monastic member Ramakrishna Mission Dhaka-1203, Bangladesh. =========== __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 6 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:57:53 +0530 (IST) Prashant G <gprasha Absolute Truth Hello Friends These doubts always crop up in my mind, ie , 1. In Vedantha Shankara, Ramanuja amd Madvacharya have developed what totality is on their own interpretations. Any intellectual debate on these commentaries require corroborations from actual personal experience! But this personal experience is based on our aquiring information through senses, and senses are itself faulty. So I feel to aquire information about the spiritual world is to accept an authority. And if I wan't accept an authority then I must be doing it to find the Absolute Truth. Therefore if several people say different things about Absolute Truth then then cannot all be right.. So, to say that it does not matter who is right and who is wrong is to indicate a lack of interest in actually understanding God So for a beginner what is the authority to be taken. 2. And it is no doubt that Shankara, Ramanuja, MadvaCharya, Buddha, Jesus, and many others have realised the Absolute Truth. then how can they say the path fallowed by others is not correct. I feel it is only Ramakrishna and Swamiji have said that all the path leads to Absolute Truth, but it always the fact that Shankara resisted from Buddhism and Dvaithists said with Advaitha we can never realise the Absolute Truth May the learned members of this list clarify my doubt Thanks in Advance Prashanth __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 7 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:11:40 PDT " Swaminathan Venkataraman " <nachiketas Very long but interesting article on science and maya Dear Friends This is a very long but interesting article that I encountered a long time back. I thought maybe people would be interested. Jay, I will look forward to your comments in particular on this. Swami The Universe as a Hologram Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm? In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris, a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science. Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart. Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more radical explanations. University of London physicist David Bohm, for example,believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram. To understand why Bohm makes this startling assertion, one must first understand a little about holograms. A hologram is a three- dimensional photograph made with the aid of a laser. To make a hologram, the object to be photographed is first bathed in the light of a laser beam. Then a second laser beam is bounced off the reflected light of the first and the resulting interference pattern (the area where the two laser beams commingle) is captured on film. When the film is developed, it looks like a meaningless swirl of light and dark lines. But as soon as the developed film is illuminated by another laser beam, a three-dimensional image of the original object appears. The three-dimensionality of such images is not the only remarkable characteristic of holograms. If a hologram of a rose is cut in half and then illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the rose. Indeed, even if the halves are divided again, each snippet of film will always be found to contain a smaller but intact version of the original image. Unlike normal photographs, every part of a hologram contains all the information possessed by the whole. The " whole in every part " nature of a hologram provides us with an entirely new way of understanding organization and order. For most of its history, Western science has labored under the bias that the best way to understand a physical phenomenon, whether a frog or an atom, is to dissect it and study its respective parts. A hologram teaches us that some things in the universe may not lend themselves to this approach. If we try to take apart something constructed holographically, we will not get the pieces of which it is made, we will only get smaller wholes. This insight suggested to Bohm another way of understanding Aspect's discovery. Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something. To enable people to better visualize what he means, Bohm offers the following illustration. Imagine an aquarium containing a fish. Imagine also that you are unable to see the aquarium directly and your knowledge about it and what it contains comes from two television cameras, one directed at the aquarium's front and the otherdirected at its side.As you stare at the two television monitors, you might assume that the fish on each of the screens are separate entities. After all, because the cameras are set at different angles, each of the images will be slightly different. But as you continue to watch the two fish, you will eventually become aware that there is a certain relationship between them. When one turns, the other also makes a slightly different but corresponding turn; when one faces the front, the other always faces toward the side. If you remain unaware of the full scope of the situation, you might even conclude that the fish must be instantaneously communicating with one another, but this is clearly not the case. This, says Bohm, is precisely what is going on between the subatomic particles in Aspect's experiment.According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex dimension beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium. And, he adds, we view objects such as subatomic particles as separate from one another because we are seeing only a portion of their reality. Such particles are not separate " parts " , but facets of a deeper and more underlying unity that is ultimately as holographic and indivisible as the previously mentioned rose. And since everything in physical reality is comprised of these " eidolons " , the universe is itself a projection, a hologram. In addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would possess other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky. Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web. In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else, time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this deeper order. At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past. What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question. Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma rays. It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of " All That Is. " Although Bohm concedes that we have no way of knowing what else might lie hidden in the superhologram, he does venture to say that we have no reason to assume it does not contain more. Or as he puts it, perhaps the superholographic level of reality is a " mere stage " beyond which lies " an infinity of further development " .Bohm is not the only researcher who has found evidence that the universe is a hologram. Working independently in the field of brain research, Standford neurophysiologist Karl Pribram has also become persuaded of the holographic nature of reality. Pribram was drawn to the holographic model by the puzzle of how and where memories are stored in the brain. For decades numerous studies have shown that rather than being confined to a specific location, memories are dispersed throughout the brain. In a series of landmark experiments in the 1920s, brain scientist Karl Lashley found that no matter what portion of a rat's brain he removed he was unable to eradicate its memory of how to perform complex tasks it had learned prior to surgery. The only problem was that no one was able to come up with a mechanism that might explain this curious " whole in every part " nature of memory storage. Then in the 1960s Pribram encountered the concept of holography and realized he had found the explanation brain scientists had been looking for. Pribram believes memories are encoded not in neurons, or small groupings of neurons, but in patterns of nerve impulses that crisscross the entire brain in the same way that patterns of laser light interference crisscross the entire area of a piece of film containing a holographic image. In other words, Pribram believes the brain is itself a hologram. Pribram's theory also explains how the human brain can store so many memories in so little space. It has been estimated that the human brain has the capacity to memorize something on the order of 10 billion bits of information during the average human lifetime (or roughly the same amount of information contained in five sets of the Encyclopaedia Britannica). Similarly, it has been discovered that in addition to their other capabilities, holograms possess an astounding capacity for information storage--simply by changing the angle at which the two lasers strike a piece of photographic film, it is possible to record many different images on the same surface. It has been demonstrated that one cubic centimeter of film can hold as many as 10 billion bits of information. Our uncanny ability to quickly retrieve whatever information we need from the enormous store of our memories becomes more understandable if the brain functions according to holographic principles. If a friend asks you to tell him what comes to mind when he says the word " zebra " , you do not have to clumsily sort back through some gigantic and cerebral alphabetic file to arrive at an answer. Instead, associations like " striped " , " horselike " , and " animal native to Africa " all pop into your head instantly.Indeed, one of the most amazing things about the human thinking process is that every piece of information seems instantly cross- correlated with every other piece of information--another feature intrinsic to the hologram. Because every portion of a hologram is infinitely interconnected with every other portion, it is perhaps nature's supreme example of a cross-correlated system. The storage of memory is not the only neurophysiological puzzle that becomes more tractable in light of Pribram's holographic model of the brain. Another is how the brain is able to translate the avalanche of frequencies it receives via the senses (light frequencies, sound frequencies, and so on) into the concrete world of our perceptions. Encoding and decoding frequencies is precisely what a hologram does best. Just as a hologram functions as a sort of lens, a translating device able to convert an apparently meaningless blur of frequencies into a coherent image, Pribram believes the brain also comprises a lens and uses holographic principles to mathematically convert the frequencies it receives through the senses into the inner world of our perceptions. An impressive body of evidence suggests that the brain uses holographic principles to perform its operations. Pribram's theory, in fact, has gained increasing support among neurophysiologists. Argentinian-Italian researcher Hugo Zucarelli recently extended the holographic model into the world of acoustic phenomena. Puzzled by the fact that humans can locate the source of sounds without moving their heads, even if they only possess hearing in one ear, Zucarelli discovered that holographic principles can explain this ability. Zucarelli has also developed the technology of holophonic sound, a recording technique able to reproduce acoustic situations with an almost uncanny realism. Pribram's belief that our brains mathematically construct " hard " reality by relying on input from a frequency domain has also received a good deal of experimental support. It has been found that each of our senses is sensitive to a much broader range of frequencies than was previously suspected.Researchers have discovered, for instance, that our visual systems are sensitive to sound frequencies, that our sense of smell is in part dependent on what are now called " osmic frequencies " , and that even the cells in our bodies are sensitive to a broad range of frequencies. Such findings suggest that it is only in the holographic domain of consciousness that such frequencies are sorted out and divided up into conventional perceptions. But the most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of the brain is what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory. For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and what is " there " is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if the brain is also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies out of this blur and mathematically transforms them into sensory perceptions,what becomes of objective reality? Put quite simply, it ceases to exist. As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, an illusion, and although we may think we are physical beings moving through a physical world, this too is an illusion.We are really " receivers " floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of frequency, and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into physical reality is but one channel from many extracted out of the superhologram. This striking new picture of reality, the synthesis of Bohm and Pribram's views, has come to be called the holographic paradigm, and although many scientists have greeted it with skepticism, it has galvanized others. A small but growing group of researchers believe it may be the most accurate model of reality science has arrived at thus far. More than that, some believe it may solve some mysteries that have never before been explainable by science and even establish the paranormal as a part of nature. Numerous researchers, including Bohm and Pribram, have noted that many para-psychological phenomena become much more understandable in terms of the holographic paradigm. In a universe in which individual brains are actually indivisible portions of the greater hologram and everything is infinitely interconnected, telepathy may merely be the accessing of the holographic level. It is obviously much easier to understand how information can travel from the mind of individual 'A' to that of individual 'B' at a far distance point and helps to understand a number of unsolved puzzles in psychology. In particular, Grof feels the holographic paradigm offers a model for understanding many of the baffling phenomena experienced by individuals during altered states of consciousness. In the 1950s, while conducting research into the beliefs of LSD as a psychotherapeutic tool, Grof had one female patient who suddenly became convinced she had assumed the identity of a female of a species of prehistoric reptile. During the course of her hallucination, she not only gave a richly detailed description of what it felt like to be encapsuled in such a form, but noted that the portion of the male of the species's anatomy was a patch of colored scales on the side of its head. What was startling to Grof was that although the woman had no prior knowledge about such things, a conversation with a zoologist later confirmed that in certain species of reptiles colored areas on the head do indeed play an important role as triggers of sexual arousal. The woman's experience was not unique. During the course of his research, Grof encountered examples of patients regressing and identifying with virtually every species on the evolutionary tree (research findings which helped influence the man-into-ape scene in the movie Altered States). Moreover, he found that such experiences frequently contained obscure zoological details which turned out to be accurate. Regressions into the animal kingdom were not the only puzzling psychological phenomena Grof encountered. He also had patients who appeared to tap into some sort of collective or racial unconscious. Individuals with little or no education suddenly gave detailed descriptions of Zoroastrian funerary practices and scenes from Hindu mythology. In other categories of experience, individuals gave persuasive accounts of out-of-body journeys, of precognitive glimpses of the future, of regressions into apparent past-life incarnations. In later research, Grof found the same range of phenomena manifested in therapy sessions which did not involve the use of drugs. Because the common element in such experiences appeared to be the transcending of an individual's consciousness beyond the usual boundaries of ego and/or limitations of space and time, Grof called such manifestations " transpersonal experiences " , and in the late '60s he helped found a branch of psychology called " transpersonal psychology " devoted entirely to their study. Although Grof's newly founded Association of Transpersonal Psychology garnered a rapidly growing group of like-minded professionals and has become a respected branch of psychology, for years neither Grof or any of his colleagues were able to offer a mechanism for explaining the bizarre psychological phenomena they were witnessing. But that has changed with the advent of the holographic paradigm. As Grof recently noted, if the mind is actually part of a continuum, a labyrinth that is connected not only to every other mind that exists or has existed, but to every atom, organism, and region in the vastness of space and time itself,the fact that it is able to occasionally make forays into the labyrinth and have transpersonal experiences no longer seems so strange. The holographic prardigm also has implications for so-called hard sciences like biology. Keith Floyd, a psychologist at Virginia Intermont College, has pointed out that if the concreteness of reality is but a holographic illusion, it would no longer be true to say the brain produces consciousness. Rather, it is consciousness that creates the appearance of the brain as well as the body and everything else around us we interpret as physical. Such a turnabout in the way we view biological structures has caused researchers to point out that medicine and our understanding of the healing process could also be transformed by the holographic paradigm. If the apparent physical structure of the body is but a holographic projection of consciousness, it becomes clear that each of us is much more responsible for our health than current medical wisdom allows. What we now view as miraculous remissions of disease may actually be due to changes in consciousness which in turn effect changes in the hologram of the body. Similarly, controversial new healing techniques such as visualization may work so well because in the holographic domain of thought images are ultimately as real as " reality " .Even visions and experiences involving " non-ordinary " reality become explainable under the holographic paradigm. In his book " Gifts of Unknown Things, " biologist Lyall Watson discribes his encounter with an Indonesian shaman woman who, by performing a ritual dance, was able to make an entire grove of trees instantly vanish into thin air. Watson relates that as he and another astonished onlooker continued to watch the woman, she caused the trees to reappear, then " click " off again and on again several times in succession. Although current scientific understanding is incapable of explaining such events, experiences like this become more tenable if " hard " reality is only a holographic projection.Perhaps we agree on what is " there " or " not there " because what we call consensus reality is formulated and ratified at the level of the human unconscious at which all minds are infinitely interconnected.If this is true, it is the most profound implication of the holographic paradigm of all, for it means that experiences such as Watson's are not commonplace only because we have not programmed our minds with the beliefs that would make them so. In a holographic universe there are no limits to the extent to which we can alter the fabric of reality. What we perceive as reality is only a canvas waiting for us to draw upon it any picture we want. Anything is possible, from bending spoons with the power of the mind to the phantasmagoric events experienced by Castaneda during his encounters with the Yaqui brujo don Juan, for magic is our birthright, no more or less miraculous than our ability to compute the reality we want when we are in our dreams.Indeed, even our most fundamental notions about reality become suspect, for in a holographic universe, as Pribram has pointed out, even random events would have to be seen as based on holographic principles and therefore determined. Synchronicities or meaningful coincidences suddenly makes sense, and everything in reality would have to be seen as a metaphor, for even the most haphazard events would express some underlying symmetry. Whether Bohm and Pribram's holographic paradigm becomes accepted in science or dies an ignoble death remains to be seen,but it is safe to say that it has already had an influence on the thinking of many scientists. And even if it is found that the holographic model does not provide the best explanation for the instantaneous communications that seem to be passing back and forth between subatomic particles, at the very least, as noted by Basil Hiley, a physicist at Birbeck College in London,Aspect's findings " indicate that we must be prepared to consider radically new views of reality " . __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 8 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:19:11 +0530 (IST) Anurag Goel <anurag Re: Absolute Truth > 1. In Vedantha Shankara, Ramanuja amd Madvacharya have developed what totality > is on their own interpretations. Any intellectual debate on these commentaries > require corroborations from actual personal experience! > > But this personal experience is based on our aquiring information through > senses, and senses are itself faulty. So I feel to aquire information about the > spiritual world is to accept an authority. And if I wan't accept an authority > then I must be doing it to find the Absolute Truth. Therefore if several people > say different things about Absolute Truth then then cannot all be right.. So, > to say that it does not matter who is right and who is wrong is to indicate > a lack of interest in actually understanding God > > So for a beginner what is the authority to be taken. Senses r not faulty rather they have limitations. May be that we r not able to understand the similarities in wat we percept as different. Something which is beyond senses can we explain it completely through limited domain of senses n words. We can only get close to explaining wat Lord can be. > > 2. And it is no doubt that Shankara, Ramanuja, MadvaCharya, Buddha, Jesus, and > many others have realised the Absolute Truth. then how can they say the path > fallowed by others is not correct. > > I feel it is only Ramakrishna and Swamiji have said that all the path leads to > Absolute Truth, but it always the fact that Shankara resisted from Buddhism and > Dvaithists said with Advaitha we can never realise the Absolute Truth > Prasanth some time back an article was posted on one list back here. The article was by " Swami Chinmayananda " . There i read something like that Sankaracharya took such a n oath for the followers of Buddha were distorting his teachings n there was utter chaos. So it was necessary to restablish the truth. That's wat shankara did. I guess Shankaracharya was not against Buddha but some his followers who were preaching ignorance. I think these people did wat the society at there time demanded. I think they cleared wat was faulty at that time. i don't think they have commented that other paths r bad. It seems its the people who take for gauranteed that if this Saint is asking to follow this path then all other paths r wrong. > > Thanks in Advance > Prashanth __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 9 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:02:05 +0100 " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda Re: Very long but interesting article on science and maya Swaminathan Venkataraman <nachiketas ramakrishna <ramakrishna > 21 September 1999 15:41 [ramakrishna] Very long but interesting article on science and maya > " Swaminathan Venkataraman " <nachiketas > >Dear Friends > >This is a very long but interesting article that I encountered a long time >back. I thought maybe people would be interested. Jay, I will look forward >to your comments in particular on this. > >Swami > >The Universe as a Hologram > >Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm? > >In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris, a >research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to >be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not >hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of >reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's >name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of >science. <snip> Response from Jay Swami - you have opened up a whole new can of worms for this list. If I remember it correctly David Bohm used to associate with J Krishnamurthi. His approach to science was almost spiritual. He passed away before he could develop his ideas to their final conclusions. His approach has not been acceptable by the 'Scientific hierarchy'. People like Murray Gell Mann of Santa Fe - have shown a distaste of anything that comes through as Eastern metaphysical approach to science. The call it 'a new-age flaky theory' and discard it. There is the EPR (thought experiment) which culminated in the Aspect experiment in Paris in 1981 which shows interconnectedness at speeds faster than light. This would create serious problems for the law of causality. (In fact it does not violate causality and yet shows a kind of deeper level of connectedness). One of the other theories which is considered to be at the cutting edge of s cience at the moment is the theory of Chaos. The name Chaos gives the wrong impression - it in fact develops the idea that there is a spontaneous interconnectedness in all processes at infinitesimal levels. Again this is similar to what Bohm observed in the behaviour of plasma. The other scientists of repute who develop a kind of spiritual approach to science is Roger Penrose (my ex professor) - you should read his ideas about consciousness. Again his ideas are considered to be 'too flaky' by the scientific hierarchy. He has written several books :- " Shadows of the mind " " Emperor's new mind " etc. Paul Davis is another scientist who has written many interesting books on this theme. My background is theoretical physics - I am working on some interesting ideas based on the actual use of the concept of 'Maya in Science' - I do not know if they will bear any fruit! But I feel certain that the next major step forward in Physics will come about by the use and wholehearted acceptance of Indian metaphysics of Sage Kapila. regards jay __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 10 Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:55:12 +0800 K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan RE: Absolute Truth Namaste Prashant-ji > Prashant G <gprasha > > These doubts always crop up in my mind, ie , > > 1. In Vedantha Shankara, Ramanuja amd Madvacharya have developed what > totality > is on their own interpretations. Any intellectual debate on these > commentaries > require corroborations from actual personal experience! > > But this personal experience is based on our aquiring information through > > senses, and senses are itself faulty. So I feel to aquire information > about the > spiritual world is to accept an authority. And if I wan't accept an > authority > then I must be doing it to find the Absolute Truth. Therefore if several > people > say different things about Absolute Truth then then cannot all be right.. > So, > to say that it does not matter who is right and who is wrong is to > indicate > a lack of interest in actually understanding God > > So for a beginner what is the authority to be taken. > Kathi: The proof of truth is confirmed by three things. They are sruti (scriptures), yukti (logic or reasoning) and finally anubhava (experience). Firstly, one has to study the scriptures (sruti) to see what it says. And then to verify its claims thru reasoning (yukti). After completing the first two processes, then the sadhaka should contemplate on the truth to realize it (anubhava). When all the three process lead you to the One, then it is the truth. I shall not not elaborate any further as I will be posting an extract from the Introduction to Atma Bodha by Swami Nikhilananda where he tackles the this 'Proof of Truth'. Expect it soon. > 2. And it is no doubt that Shankara, Ramanuja, MadvaCharya, Buddha, Jesus, > and > many others have realised the Absolute Truth. then how can they say the > path > fallowed by others is not correct. > > I feel it is only Ramakrishna and Swamiji have said that all the path > leads to > Absolute Truth, but it always the fact that Shankara resisted from > Buddhism and > Dvaithists said with Advaitha we can never realise the Absolute Truth > Kathi: Shankara was against Buddhism not because it didn't lead one to the truth. Swamiji has said that during the time of Shankara, Buddhism had degenerated to its lowest form and lost the original spirit of Lord Buddha's teachings. Another reason for Shankara to be against it, was because Buddhism was a non-vedic religion, in the sense that Buddha rejected the rituals expounded by the Vedas. But thru our own logic and study of the life and works of Thakur and Swamiji we too can experience the truth for ourselves or at least logically see the goals to be the same. The verbal battle between Dvaitins and Advaitins will go on forever. But I personally like the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna because of his famous decalaration that none will fail to realize the lord in our hearts. Dvaita, Vishishta-Advaita and Advaita are all stages in a person's spiritual evolution. Om Shanti Kathi __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 11 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:52:34 +0530 Dr C S Shah <drcssha Gita Hello, Thus, when Arjuna surrenders himself at the feet of the Lord, Sri Krishna says: O Brave one, why this infatuation at this hour! Why have you given yourself to this unmanliness and cowardice? Do not think that by your 'high talk of renunciation and retiring to forest' people would adore you and call you brave and intelligent. On the contrary, for centuries to come the blame would be put on you of running away from the battle field. ... Full article < http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/a35.html > c s s ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html ==================================== __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 12 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:52:49 +0530 Dr C S Shah <drcssha Intuition Hello, To deny the existence of human intuitive capabilities is to deny the possibility of future scientific progress. We fail to consider that reflexive and rational behavior finds its fulfillment in intuitive awakening of soul, and as such intuition is a natural process of human intellectual growth that should be welcome... Full article < http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/a37.html > c s s -- ==================================== E-magazine on science and spirituality. Visit: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Styx/1704/index.html http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html ==================================== __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 13 Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:30:06 -0800 EDTipple <edtipple Re: Absolute Truth I believe it was either Swamiji or Maharaj (Swami Brahmananda) who said something to the effect that if Krishna, Buddha, Christ, Ramakrishna met togeteher, they would be the best of friends and have no arguments -- but their followers fight like cats and dogs.edtipple __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 14 Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:56:39 -0400 " MAHESH LAD " <mlad RE: simplicity I have seen swamiji's using only Mercedes benz or BMW and now Lexus. If you want to bow down your head to someone are parents,grand parents,small children, and Lord Rama or Krishna and other saints. Not the Swamijis who after the worldy matters. Dynes [dynes] Monday, September 20, 1999 12:35 PM Ramakrishna [ramakrishna] simplicity Importance: High One of the hallmarks about Hinduism is its simplicity. But I have seen a few swamijis wear rich (almost like silk) robes. I do not want to name them and create a controversy as the purpose of my query is only for the sake of knowledge. I just want to know if its not wrong for swamijis to wear such clothes. R. Dinakaran __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Message: 15 Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:50:37 +0800 K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan I will live Forever > The day will come when my body will lie upon a white sheet, > neatly tucked under four corners of a mattress, > located in a hospital busily occupied with the living and the dying. > At a certain moment a doctor will determine that my brain has ceased > to function and that, for all intents and purposes, my life has stopped. " > " When that happens, do not attempt to instill artificial life into my > body > by use of a machine. And don't call this my deathbed. > Let it be called the Bed of Life, and let my body be taken from it to > help others lead fuller lives. " > > " Give my sight to the man who has never seen a sunrise, a baby's face > or love in the eyes of a woman. > Give my heart to a person whose own heart has caused nothing but > endless days of pain. > Give my blood to the teen-ager [sic] who was pulled from the wreckage > of his car, so that he might live to see his grandchildren play. > Give my kidneys to one who depends on a machine to exist from > week to week. " > > " Take my bones, every muscle, every fiber and nerve in my body and > find a way to make a crippled child walk. Explore every corner of my > brain. > Take my cells if necessary, and let them grow so that, someday, > a deaf girl will hear the sound of rain against her window. > Burn what is left and scatter the ashes in the winds to help the flowers > grow. > > If you must bury something, let it be my faults, my weaknesses and all > prejudice against my fellow man. Give my sins to the devil. Give my soul > to God. > > If by chance you wish to remember me, do it with a kind deed or word > to someone who needs you. > > If you do all I have asked, I will live forever. " > > AUTHOR UNKNOWN __________________________ ___ __________________________ ___ Larson Publications http://www.lightlink.com/larson Wisdom's Goldenrod http://www.goldenrod.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 1999 Report Share Posted September 23, 1999 The " very long but interesting article on science and maya " -- holographic universe -- was indeed fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 1999 Report Share Posted September 23, 1999 Please me from the list.I sent a proper mail to the address meant for unsubscription.I even got a confirmation.But mails still keep coming to me. Somebody please do the needful. K.Sriram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.