message 9 (niether with form nor formless

[Guest guest]

> how is it possible to be neither

with form nor formless? It seems that one or the other has to be

the case.

 

Being neither with form nor formless makes perfect sense to me. There are no

two, only one. Form and formlessness are opposites and define each other and

they only have existence in the realm of duality. To quote from the Tao Te

Ching Chap. 2 Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty because there is

ugliness. All can know good as good only because there is evil. Therefore having

and not having arise together. Difficult and easy compliment each other. Long

and short contract each other, ...etc.

Form and formlessness define each other. both terms are relative and have no

absolute value. When we think of freedom or liberation it is only natural for

us to believe that it is form that is binding and that liberation is freedom

from form, which we may naturally conclude to be formlessness. But these are

still relative concepts and we are beyond that. There is only one and that one

is beyond dualities. Being beyond dualities it is indescribable since all of our

words and concepts exist in the realm of duality. And we are that one Tat Tvam

Asi. We are neither with form nor formless because we are beyond both

and it doesn't seem to me that either one or the other has to be the case, in

fact It seems more likely that we are both with form and formless and without

form and formlessness. There is always the viewpoint that the Absolute is

manifesting itself as form and formlessness, in which case we would be both and

there is the viewpoint that form and formlessness have no real existence, in

which case we would be neither. It seems very unlikely that we would be only one

or the other. That we be taking a dualistic position. I think the problem is

that the word formless often gets misunderstood to mean absolute

atributelessness. I think in the statement " neither with form nor formless "

the word formless refers to a mental concept we have that we use when we think

about the absence of form and in the context of the statement I don't believe

the word formless is meant to indicate Absolute transcendent reality. Anyway,

that’s my opinion. Sorry for rambling. Either way I guess it's best in these

situations to say nothing and smile.

 

Or maybe I just should have said: In the spring, many flowers. In the autumn,

the bright harvest moon. In the summer, a cool breeze. In the winter, the

company of snow.

 

Peace to all ! Mozox : )