Guest guest Posted February 10, 2000 Report Share Posted February 10, 2000 Further to earlier posting we have an interesting dialogue going on between the 'qualified dvaita' and the advaita thinking. This dialogue is taking place in another list but may be of interest to other list members hence sending a copy of it. - Paul Howard <phoward 09 February 2000 21:34 > > > >>> " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda 02/09/00=20 > >----------------response from jay------------- > > >This is a common attitude developed by 'Dvaita Vedanta' Which says: > >God, Universe and Man are separate beings and the universe belongs to = > >God > >and controlled by God. It has three eternal entities God, Soul and the > >Universe. > > I am actually coming from somewhat of a different perspective, not advaita = > or dvaita, but closer to dvaitaadvaita, which is best expressed as acintya = > bhedaabheda tattva, " Inconceivable oneness and difference. " Here it is = > understood that there is the Personality of Godhead (Bhagavan), and there = > are His energies, which are of two or three qualities. There is the = > spiritual potency and the material potency. The jivas are of the = > spiritual potency, but distinct in that they can become influenced by the = > material potency. =20 > The difference between the jivas and the Lord is that each of us is = > infinitesimal, while He is infinite. We are eternally part and parcel of = > God, but we are not the totality of God. > > >Swami Vivekananda was commenting on the 'Advaita' approach which >says > >There cannot be three eternal infinite entities. Else they will limit = > each > >other and hence God becomes limited by his creation. The advaita = > >approach says. There is only One > >he 'appears' or 'manifests' as the universe and all of us. > > This difficulty can be easily resolved by a material example: How many = > numbers are divisible by 2? The answer is " infinite. " How many numbers = > are divisible by 3? Still infinite. How many numbers are there total. = > This is also infinite. We can see that these three sets of numbers are = > each infinite, but that the total set is the greatest, and actually = > contains infinite sets of infinite numbers, some of which can encompass = > other sets. So it is quite possible to have multiple infinite entities = > who do not bump into each other. =20 > However it has not been established that the living entities are = > infinite. The Vedas actually say we are infinitesimal, though infinite in = > number. It is also said that the material and spiritual realms are also = > infinite, though the spiritual is more, and contains the material which is = > like a cloud of ignorance in a sky of knowledge. > To say that there is only one who or which has transformed into the = > cosmic manifestation is to say that we are God, and that God has become = > overpowered by illusion. It's a philosophy called Mayavada, that maya is = > greater than God. Actually we understand from Sri Brahma Samhita that God = > is never touched by maya, and instead that as Paramesvara He is in = > complete control of maya. > > I'm looking forward to discussing the Vedic conclusion here. Thanks. > > sincerely, > Paul H. > Further Response from Jay Hinduism encompasses many approaches to God (It is pluralistic). The same Vedic scriptures have been interpreted in various ways by various teachers. For the moment I will take on the case for the 'Advaita approach'. The Advaita Vedanta talks of the same one 'appearing' as the many. It does not make comments that God has become overcome by his own 'maya' This is imposed by 'Dvaita or the further subclassification of Dvaita movement'. Advaita just makes a case that the one 'appears' as the many is perhaps the most logical conclusion when we look at the status of the universe. The fact that you can approach infinite in many different ways as shown by various divisions shown above does not mean there are many infinities. It simply means there are various ways to reach the infinite. (mind you -- there are far better ways to try and classify infinities than by the above method - but I will not go into it now). In the view that God is separate from us and the universe -- begs the question, " What is our relationship to God? and to the rest of the universe? " All different 'Dvaita movements and most of the Abrahamic faiths' will come up with many different answers - it makes the whole thing look very arbitrary. It is my view that the new generation will prefer the Advaita approach rather than the approach which talks of God as the almighty we have to bow down to or to grovel to and find favour with. There is something else which is strongly in favour of the 'Advaita' approach. The world as it 'appears' is a delusion. (This is 'simplistic' quantum mechanics). These findings are seen as the cutting edge of Modern Physics. regards jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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