Guest guest Posted February 25, 2000 Report Share Posted February 25, 2000 Wed, 23 Feb. 2000 15:04:58 -0000 " Vinaire Agarwala " <vinaire wrote: <<< To meditate is " to engage in deep and serious thought. " It suggests focusing the thoughts on a subject from every point of view, to understand all its sides and relations. Thus, the process of meditation involves viewing something thoroughly. The end product of meditation is to perceive something for what it truly is. ... >>> =============================================================== What is being described above is contemplation than meditation. Meditation is trying to make the flow of mind one pointed like pouring oil from one vessel into another without breaking the continuity. It is the further step to concentration of mind, which comes after Pratyahara -withdrawing sense organs from their objects. Meditation culminates into samadhi. Pratyahara -dharana (concentration) -dhyana (meditation) -samadhi (mystic introversion). The routine use of the word meditation in psychology, Yoga classes, and stress relieving technique has robbed it of its higher value sense. It is the last but one step (almost highest) in the realm of spiritual practices. Depending upon the object of meditation the sadhaka would have vision of a form or his meditative state would be of formless reality. thanks, dr c s shah -- =================================== E-zine on science and spirituality. Do visit: http://www.geocities.com/neovedanta http://members.xoom.com/drcsshah/neovedanta/index.html =================================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2000 Report Share Posted February 26, 2000 Dr. Shah, I basically agree with your analysis of dharana and dhyana, and I want to add one little thing which may be of some interest. In Western (Christian) mysticism, the concepts of concentration and meditation are reversed. I've found that this can make it very difficult to discuss such topics in any detail with Christians who may be interested in such things. I would also like to add one more thing for those who may be interested. The Vedas suggest different methods for spiritual advancement depending on which yuga is current. The traditional ashtanga yoga system (some people call " power yoga " ashtanga yoga too) was the process recommended in the satya yuga. In tretya yuga, sacrifices were recommended. In dvapura yuga temple worship of the deity form of the Lord was recommend. In kali (this) yuga, congregational chanting of the holy name of the Lord is the process. It's known as hari nama sankirtana. There's this famous verse from the brihan naradiya purana, which says, hari nama hari nama hari namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir unyatha " In this age of quarrel and hypocracy, for spiritual advancement, one must chant the holy name, chant the holy name, chant the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no other way, no other way. " Actually, it is not possible to meditate in kali yuga. In satya yuga the life expectancy was 100,000 years, and many sages would still have difficulty after 30-60,000 years. I believe it was Visvamitra who was distracted by the tinkling of the ankle bells of Menaka, after 60,000 years of meditation. In tretya yuga the life expentency was reduced to 10,000 years; in dvapura yuga, 1000, and in kali yuga it is now only 100 years. And we are generally in poor health and equipped with a poor fund of intelligence. How can it be possible to achieve perfection by meditative techniques? The process of hari nama sankirtana is so nice, and is most effective. The kali yuga is full of all kinds of difficulties, but I consider myself most fortunate to have taken birth in this age, because even though I am of low birth and have very limited intelligence, I can happily take part in the glorification of the Lord by the chanting of His holy names, which produces a greater result than all other sacrifices. On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:37:06 +0530 Dr C S Shah <drcssha writes: > Dr C S Shah <drcssha > > Wed, 23 Feb. 2000 15:04:58 -0000 > " Vinaire Agarwala " <vinaire wrote: > <<< To meditate is " to engage in deep and serious thought. " It > suggests > focusing the thoughts on a subject from every point of view, to > understand all its sides and relations. Thus, the process of > meditation involves viewing something thoroughly. The end product of > meditation is to perceive something for what it truly is. ... >>> > =============================================================== > > What is being described above is contemplation than meditation. > > Meditation is trying to make the flow of mind one pointed like > pouring > oil from one vessel into another without breaking the continuity. > It is the further step to concentration of mind, which comes after > Pratyahara -withdrawing sense organs from their objects. > Meditation culminates into samadhi. > > Pratyahara -dharana (concentration) -dhyana (meditation) -samadhi > (mystic introversion). > > The routine use of the word meditation in psychology, Yoga classes, > and > stress relieving technique has robbed it of its higher value sense. > It is the last but one step (almost highest) in the realm of > spiritual > practices. > > Depending upon the object of meditation the sadhaka would have vision > of a form or his meditative state would be of formless reality. > > thanks, > dr c s shah > -- > ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2000 Report Share Posted February 26, 2000 Contemplation and meditation are two different processes as pointed out by Dr. Shah. In contemplation one manipulates the thoughts in various ways, whereas, in meditation one simply views what is there. Meditation does not involve itself with any manipulation of thoughts. Vinaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2000 Report Share Posted February 26, 2000 Marvellous results can be obtained from meditation in one lifetime only. Swami Vivekananda did it. So can anyone of us if we operate under proper guidance, and if we can only dedicate our life to wanting to go free. Vinaire - Dharam Dev Singh Ramakrishna Friday, February 25, 2000 8:49 PM Re: [ramakrishna] meditation: digest 361 Dharam Dev Singh <DharamDev Dr. Shah, I basically agree with your analysis of dharana and dhyana, and I want to add one little thing which may be of some interest. In Western (Christian) mysticism, the concepts of concentration and meditation are reversed. I've found that this can make it very difficult to discuss such topics in any detail with Christians who may be interested in such things. I would also like to add one more thing for those who may be interested. The Vedas suggest different methods for spiritual advancement depending on which yuga is current. The traditional ashtanga yoga system (some people call " power yoga " ashtanga yoga too) was the process recommended in the satya yuga. In tretya yuga, sacrifices were recommended. In dvapura yuga temple worship of the deity form of the Lord was recommend. In kali (this) yuga, congregational chanting of the holy name of the Lord is the process. It's known as hari nama sankirtana. There's this famous verse from the brihan naradiya purana, which says, hari nama hari nama hari namaiva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir unyatha " In this age of quarrel and hypocracy, for spiritual advancement, one must chant the holy name, chant the holy name, chant the holy name of the Lord. There is no other way, no other way, no other way. " Actually, it is not possible to meditate in kali yuga. In satya yuga the life expectancy was 100,000 years, and many sages would still have difficulty after 30-60,000 years. I believe it was Visvamitra who was distracted by the tinkling of the ankle bells of Menaka, after 60,000 years of meditation. In tretya yuga the life expentency was reduced to 10,000 years; in dvapura yuga, 1000, and in kali yuga it is now only 100 years. And we are generally in poor health and equipped with a poor fund of intelligence. How can it be possible to achieve perfection by meditative techniques? The process of hari nama sankirtana is so nice, and is most effective. The kali yuga is full of all kinds of difficulties, but I consider myself most fortunate to have taken birth in this age, because even though I am of low birth and have very limited intelligence, I can happily take part in the glorification of the Lord by the chanting of His holy names, which produces a greater result than all other sacrifices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2000 Report Share Posted February 27, 2000 Namaste Dharam-ji > Dharam Dev Singh <DharamDev > > > I would also like to add one more thing for those who may be >interested. > The Vedas suggest different methods for spiritual advancement >depending on which yuga is current. The traditional ashtanga >yoga system (some people call " power yoga " >ashtanga yoga too) was the process recommended in >the satya yuga. In tretya yuga, sacrifices were recommended. >In dvapura yuga temple worship of the deity form of the Lord was >recommend. >In kali (this) yuga, congregational chanting of the holy name of the >Lord is the process. It's known as hari nama sankirtana. That's interesting. Dear Dharam-ji, could you please state which Veda said such a thing? I am very curious to know this as I've been searching for such references for some time. > There's this famous verse from the brihan naradiya purana, which says, >hari nama hari nama hari namaiva kevalam >kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir unyatha > " In this age of quarrel and hypocracy, for spiritual advancement, one >must >chant the holy name, chant the holy name, chant the holy name of the >Lord. >There is no other way, no other way, no other way. " Puranas are subordinate to Smrtis like Bhagavat Gita. And smrtis are subordinate to srutis (vedas). If the Upanishad (which happens to be a sruti) suggests other methods, then we should take that as supreme authority as well. Pls comment. >Actually, it is not possible to meditate in kali yuga. In satya yuga the >life >expectancy was 100,000 years, and many sages would still have >difficulty after 30-60,000 years. I believe it was Visvamitra who was >distracted by the tinkling of the ankle bells of Menaka, after 60,000 >years >of meditation. In tretya yuga the life expentency was reduced to 10,000 >years; in dvapura yuga, 1000, and in kali yuga it is now only 100 years. >And we are generally in poor health and equipped with a poor fund >of intelligence. How can it be possible to achieve perfection by >meditative techniques? Such statements only dispute the experiences of the great rishis like Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramana Maharishi and several others. It also disputes the experience of Swami Vivekananda. Could you explain further please. Where did you get those material? >The process of hari nama sankirtana is so nice, and is most effective. >The kali yuga is full of all kinds of difficulties, but I consider myself >most fortunate to have taken birth in this age, because even though >I am of low birth and have very limited intelligence, I can happily take >part in the glorification of the Lord by the chanting of His holy names, >which produces a greater result than all other sacrifices. I agree it is very nice. I still chant the Mahamantra when I'm with the right company. Chanting is good according to Sri Ramakrishna too. But to say that it is the most effective is implying that we have attained Moksha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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