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RE: [ramakrishna] Pls explain this...

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In reference to Swamiji's quote on man's need to subjugate and control nature,

he is of course refering to man's mind, body, and senses. The mind is

essentially made of the three gunas: satva, rajas, and tamas. Therefore, the

mind is in constant motion between these gunas and feels attracted to these

aspects of nature, which obscure the pure Self. The Gita provides the best

description of the gunas and how they can be controlled and transcended. No

description of " nature " is complete without understanding the gunas.

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Namaste

 

Here 'nature' means basically the world of maya. The laws of maya that

binds you down. Swamiji mentioned that nature is like a snare, meaning that

the world of maya is constantly elusive. the only means to escape it is by

knowing your true nature and not by destroying nature. This was what he

could have meant.

 

 

 

UDAYAKIRAN_C

'Ramakrishna '

12/06/00 19:26

[ramakrishna] Pls explain this...

 

There is a Swami vivekananda Quote which goes:

I disagree with the idea that freedom is obedience to the laws of

nature. I

do not understand what that means. According to the history of human

progress, it is disobedience to nature that has constituted progress.

 

I had posted it on my Company Bulletin Board. Many people were surprised

to

find that Swami Vivekananda was advocating the destruction of nature(ie.

the

environment, trees, ecology etc.) I tried to explain it this way:

**************************

I think the interpretation of it is different. Nature described here is

not

just the plants, trees & eco system. Nature here is used in the sense of

property, like 'human nature'.

Human nature is to have as much food as and when he wants. If you rebel

against it, restrict your food intake only to the extent needed, u will

be

working against nature.

Human nature is to heed to the mind's wishes. Mind being very vacillant,

u

are not able to concentrate on anything. You concentrate, enslave mind

and

thereby enslave nature.

 

Look at the great Yogis of yore, they are the ones who had conquered

nature.

They were unaffected by happiness, sorrow, riches, poverty, wind, rain,

summer, winter, and were steadfast in their blissful state. Are these

people

the conquerors of nature or a person who has 500 gadgets and is

constantly

worrying abt having more control over 'nature'?

**************************

 

Is that what Swami Vivekananda meant? Can you please help me with

this...

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Uday<(*¿*)>

" Let Noble thoughts come to us from all directions. "

-Rig Veda

 

 

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Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

Vivekananda Centre London

http://www.btinternet.com/~vivekananda/

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In a message dated 00-06-12 10:12:38 EDT, udayakiran_c writes:

 

<<

There is a Swami vivekananda Quote which goes:

I disagree with the idea that freedom is obedience to the laws of nature. I

do not understand what that means. According to the history of human

progress, it is disobedience to nature that has constituted progress. >>

 

Well, I don't think the word " nature " was a good choice in translation. At

least the way I understand this statement. Perhaps a better choice would

have been the " status quo " . I think of such great fights for freedom that

have occured in history. It is a disobedience to the status quo that brought

about great strides forward. Gandhi, in India, William Wallace in

Scotland...They refused to accept what was " expected " of them. They had

vision enough to see that freedom was essential and they disobeyed the " laws "

of the status quo.

 

Also, I think this statement is also refering to the human nature as you

stated. It is in human nature to take the path of least resistance, yet, if

we choose instead to take " the road less traveled " that is when we see

greatness in ourselves. Overcoming our nature to preserve ourselves, our

individuality, preserve our own wants and needs before the needs of

others...etc.

 

Sue

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"I disagree with the idea that freedom is obedience to the laws of nature. I do not understand what that means. According to the history of human progress, it is disobedience to nature that has constituted progress." - Swami VivekanandaMy understanding is as follows:

 

The nature refers to the physical universe which is a created system. The basic charactertic of nature is STIMULUS - RESPONSE. Being a created system, nature has no ability to CAUSE or CREATE. Its part can only react to each other.

 

When one acts in obedience with the laws of nature, one is simply being a part of that system. One is being "stimulus-response" and not at all causative. There is no original contribution. Hence there cannot be any progress.

 

Freedom exists in the ability to cause (create). The "stimulus-response" behavior is totally bound. There is no freedom in it.

 

Vinaire

 

 

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