Guest guest Posted November 28, 2000 Report Share Posted November 28, 2000 In a message dated 11/28/00 5:41:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, sanjaych writes: The problem is that in every event that happens to me, I see that there was something lacking in me that caused the frustration. So, it seems that if I perfect myself enough then I can circumvent the pain. Sanjay- The only way to perfect yourself is to free yourself from the desires and expectations that are causing you the pain and disappointment you are experiencing. Most of us have entered spiritual life because of pain- Sri Krishna mentions this as one type of devotee in the Gita. I don't think it is inferior-it's a natural step in our evolution.... But like Arjuna, we haven't tasted the spiritual bliss yet so we aren't sure if we should give up these small pleasures. It feels like a gray area. Until we've realized the emptiness of worldly life, how can we know true renunciation? We can also look around us and learn lessons from other people's suffering. For example, are the rich immune to sickness, old age, and death? Maybe you are lucky to have this frustration and dissatisfaction. Even if you were "successful" and had all the things you wanted- would it be enough? The more things you have the more worried you would be to protect them to make sure those pleasures would continue.... But I understand your doubts. Maybe there are people that you see who seem to be happy and confident with their worldly beliefs and pleasures. They seem to be content. But the devotees have to struggle sometimes against many obstacles. The rewards of this struggle are not so obvious. But suffering is our greatest teacher, so we must try to learn what is true. When we have gotten nice and roasted in the fire of the world, we will become nonattached and free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2000 Report Share Posted November 30, 2000 Friend jaguarxox, Your words are very reassuring. As you have sensed, I am worried that I may be just trying to find an escape route for the life's difficulties, and instead of bravely facing them, may be trying to run away from them in the garb of spirituality, much like what Arjuna tries to do in Ch. 1 of the Gita. Can you point me to the shloka where Sri Krishna mentions that type of a devotee? Suffering is our greatest teacher, you say. When you do not get what you want despite your best efforts, and suffer in result, it is relatively easy to understand that this was owing to Daiva or Prarabdha. But when you look back and find yourself wanting in self-control, efficiency and sincerity, you feel this suffering could have been avoided if you had been a better human being. This is indicative of the Aham-vritti which says, "I can do it! I will do it next time". As opposed to this, a spiritual person may say, "The results were and will not in my hand. I did do my best at that point of time, although I was imperfect. I will try to do better next time because that's my duty". Do you see the difference in the tone? The first is the voice of the kshatriya, the second that of a renunciate. My question is whether we have to progress through the first to the second, or whether we can take a jump. If we do take a jump, how do I know that I am not slipping into tamas instead of sattwa? RegardsSanjay Chakravarty jaguarxox [jaguarxox]Wednesday, November 29, 2000 7:12 AMRamakrishna Subject: Re: [ramakrishna] The Drive for MokshaIn a message dated 11/28/00 5:41:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, sanjaych writes: The problem is that in every event that happens to me, I see that there was something lacking in me that caused the frustration. So, it seems that if I perfect myself enough then I can circumvent the pain. Sanjay- The only way to perfect yourself is to free yourself from the desires and expectations that are causing you the pain and disappointment you are experiencing. Most of us have entered spiritual life because of pain- Sri Krishna mentions this as one type of devotee in the Gita. I don't think it is inferior-it's a natural step in our evolution.... But like Arjuna, we haven't tasted the spiritual bliss yet so we aren't sure if we should give up these small pleasures. It feels like a gray area. Until we've realized the emptiness of worldly life, how can we know true renunciation? We can also look around us and learn lessons from other people's suffering. For example, are the rich immune to sickness, old age, and death? Maybe you are lucky to have this frustration and dissatisfaction. Even if you were "successful" and had all the things you wanted- would it be enough? The more things you have the more worried you would be to protect them to make sure those pleasures would continue.... But I understand your doubts. Maybe there are people that you see who seem to be happy and confident with their worldly beliefs and pleasures. They seem to be content. But the devotees have to struggle sometimes against many obstacles. The rewards of this struggle are not so obvious. But suffering is our greatest teacher, so we must try to learn what is true. When we have gotten nice and roasted in the fire of the world, we will become nonattached and free. Sri Ramakrishnaye NamahVivekananda Centre Londonhttp://www.vivekananda.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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