Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Namaste to you again, I would also like to suggest that you also get a copy of the Life of Sri Ramakrishna and study it. I believe his life will answer these questions of yours too. Regards my brother. Kathi > > padmanaban balaraman [sMTP:padmanaban_bala] > Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:46 AM > ramakrishna > [ramakrishna] god > > hi every body who ever listens or read it, > > I put up a question earlier but i could not able to > find a answer which i could really agree (Existance of god). > > But i am in search of god and i am not sure whether he is present or > not still i am trying enough atleast by > somebody i could understand the concept of life with that > to god > > > ___ > Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at > http://bol.rediff.com Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Namaste. In one of the stories in Tales and parables of Sri RamaKrishna, the answer to this question is found. There was a disciple in the ashram of a great sage. The sage one day told all the students that everything is god on the lines of Vedanta. To see something apart from the Self is a contradiction in existence. Our friend caught hold of this point that everything is god. The next morning the students went to the forest to collect samith, dharbha grass and firewood. Suddenly a mahut came announcing, Run and hide for life. A rutting elephant is coming. It is difficult to control him " . So all the students expecting our friend ran and hid. Our friend clinging on to the statement " Everything is God " stood there unmoved. The elephant threw him away with its trunk and went off. He fell unconcious and when he woke up he found himself in the bed in the ashram with his guru near him and all his fellow students watching him with anxiety. The guru asked him why he didnt hide or run away from the elephants path he replied that he had firmly believed his gurus statement that all is god and stood his ground thinking the elephant god was coming. The guru said that was fine but why did he no heed to the mahut god. The import of the story is one cant realize god extraneous to one self. For you to see god you have to be god. It means that realization is here and now. For if realization was to acquired at some point in time then it means that is not there at present and it is subject time and space. If it is subject to time and space then it is temporary and what is acquired have to be lost at some other point in time. So such a thing is not worth striving for. As we beleive that Self/God are ominscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, our understanding of having to realize at some point in time would prove to be a contradiction. Therefore realization is here and now and for us to understand this we should shed our identification with this so called body, mind, form and name, just as the iron fillings embedded in sand have to be cleared so as to enable them to cling on to the magnet. Prasanna On 12 Apr 2001, padmanaban balaraman wrote: > hi every body who ever listens or read it, > > I put up a question earlier but i could not able to > find a answer which i could really agree (Existance of god). > > But i am in search of god and i am not sure whether he is present or not still i am trying enough atleast by > somebody i could understand the concept of life with that > to god > > > ___ > Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at > http://bol.rediff.com Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 - " padmanaban balaraman " <padmanaban_bala <ramakrishna > Thursday, April 12, 2001 04:45 [ramakrishna] god > hi every body who ever listens or read it, > > I put up a question earlier but i could not able to > find a answer which i could really agree (Existance of god). > > But i am in search of god and i am not sure whether he is present or not still i am trying enough atleast by > somebody i could understand the concept of life with that > to god Dear Padmanaban Your interest in 'God' seems very sincere. May I suggest that you read up the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna. Here you will find answers to your questions. The list can never duplicate the material that you can get by learning about God from a God realised person of our age Sri Ramakrishna. I will attempt to respond to a few points that you have raised (a) God is not an object that you can see so you will not find proof of God (in that sense). One of the answers you were given by Swami Yogeshananda referred to ' existence '. One of the unusual concepts to come out of Hinduism is: Do not ask: " Does God exist? " the better explanation is: - " Existence is God " (b) Hinduism is 'pluralistic' -- the above response is just one approach. There are Hindus who will say God is like a person, a real being who comes and talks to me... that too is fine. The synthesis of all these various approaches came through the life and teachings of :- Sri Ramakrishna. Please read the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna to see how all these pathways are not contradictory but actually complement each other. Hope this helped a bit. regards jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2001 Report Share Posted April 13, 2001 Regarding the same story, I have a different explanation. I gathered the gist from M's talk with Swamiji's talk after Sri Thakur's passing away. The elephant-Narayana stands for our own lower self, whereas the Mahut-Narayana is our higher self, urging us to realize our true nature. But, stone-headed that we are, we invariably end up obeying the elephant-Narayana instead of heeding the Mahut-Narayana... My two cents... -Sri Ramakrishna wrote: > > > Namaste. > > In one of the stories in Tales and parables of Sri RamaKrishna, > the answer to this question is found. > > There was a disciple in the ashram of a great sage. The sage > one day told all the students that everything is god on the lines of > Vedanta. To see something apart from the Self is a contradiction in > existence. > > Our friend caught hold of this point that everything is > god. The next morning the students went to the forest to collect > samith, dharbha grass and firewood. Suddenly a mahut came announcing, > Run and hide for life. A rutting elephant is coming. It is difficult > to control him " . So all the students expecting our friend ran and > hid. Our friend clinging on to the statement " Everything is God " stood > there unmoved. The elephant threw him away with its trunk and went > off. He fell unconcious and when he woke up he found himself in the > bed in the ashram with his guru near him and all his fellow students > watching him with anxiety. > > The guru asked him why he didnt hide or run away from the > elephants path he replied that he had firmly believed his gurus > statement that all is god and stood his ground thinking the elephant > god was coming. The guru said that was fine but why did he no heed to > the mahut god. > > The import of the story is one cant realize god extraneous to > one self. For you to see god you have to be god. > > It means that realization is here and now. For if realization was to > acquired at some point in time then it means that is not there at > present and it is subject time and space. If it is subject to time and > space then it is temporary and what is acquired have to be lost at > some other point in time. So such a thing is not worth striving > for. As we beleive that Self/God are ominscient, omnipresent and > omnipotent, our understanding of having to realize at some point in > time would prove to be a contradiction. Therefore realization is here > and now and for us to understand this we should shed our > identification with this so called body, mind, form and name, just as > the iron fillings embedded in sand have to be cleared so as to enable > them to cling on to the magnet. > > Prasanna > > On 12 Apr 2001, padmanaban balaraman wrote: > > > hi every body who ever listens or read it, > > > > I put up a question earlier but i could not able to > > find a answer which i could really agree (Existance of god). > > > > But i am in search of god and i am not sure whether he is present or not still i am trying enough atleast by > > somebody i could understand the concept of life with that > > to god > > > > > > ___ > > Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at > > http://bol.rediff.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > Vivekananda Centre London > > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2001 Report Share Posted April 16, 2001 Apoorva To your question should we be what we are? 1. It depends on how we interprete 'what we are'. If you mean the spiritual being the answer is 'yes'. By all means one should be what one is. Because as Vivekananda tells us we are all devine. So no change is required. How can the devine change? It is changeless, formless, odourless, etc etc Pl refer to Gita. 2. If you mean the physical being then the answer is NO. Physical being is made up of influences from our childhood and sorroundings and these may not necessarily be conducive to our developement as a spiritual being. Here there is need to change. There is always a struggle between the spiritual and physical being as they are trying to pull us in different directions. Hence effort may be required to pull the being on the right side. It is a lot difficult initially but with practice it becomes quite natural. 3. Good to know that He guides you and works as a lamp post as He has for all those who have sought refuse in him. Regards Yours sincerely Dr Milind Sathye Department of Finance and Banking University of Southern Queensland Toowoomba, Queensland 4350 Australia Phone 61 +7 + 4631 5509 Fax 61+ 7 + 4631 2625 web page: http://www.usq.edu.au/users/sathye Vivekananda Centre [vivekananda] Tuesday, 17 April 2001 5:48 list [ramakrishna] God i do not know much about spirituality and Godhead, but i do beleive in my heart that there is a God..a God who is not outside but one who dwells inside me..there are places in life where i feel lost and i feel alone..somehow i desperately try and be someone who He would be proud of..at other times i feel that i try too hard and thus i lose out on the person that i actually am..but this is what i dont understand.. does one be himself and just stay that way bcoz that is who we are, or do u make a constant effort in becoming a better human being..and if we do, then at the end of the day who is the person that we actually are..the person we just were or the person we try to be..is a " trying to be " state false from your actual self or is that how we evolve ourselves and thus become just more like to the person we actually are.. apoorva. Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.vivekananda.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2001 Report Share Posted April 17, 2001 Dear Apoorva, You are asking wonderful questions. I think most of us struggle with these questions, sometimes more, sometimes less, in the course of our spiritual journey. Sometimes I think that one of the biggest challenges is to separate our image of god from our ideas about our parents! (for example, our parents want us to make them proud. Does god? Or does god love and accept us exactly as we are, right here, right now?) Swami Vivekananda offered what, to me, is a sensible approach: whatever makes you strong, do that; whatever makes you weak, avoid that. He also used the image of a great tree, recommending we develop ourselves fully in all of our potentialities. I read this as a call to develop our so-called " human potential " ... and building our character. We are the Atman, but we identify ourselves with our psychophysical being, and as long as we do so, we want to maximize our human abilities and utilize our human gifts in the service of God-as-man. My guru, Swami Ashokananda, once said in a lecture: " You may say, 'when I close my eyes I see nothing, I do not see god. How can I worship him? ' Wherever you see greatness, there is god. Worship that greatness as god. " Which I take to mean that if we live up to our OWN highest values, then we continue to make spiritual progress. Some " striving to be a better person " is a covert form of self-hatred. I think we have to ask ourselves, why am I striving? Is it to expand ourselves toward more universal love and experience, or is it a way of trying to be a different person than we are? The latter is psychological suicide. Anyhow, these are some of the conclusions I have come to over decades of wrestling with Vedanta. You may reach different conclusions...the point is, to wrestle with these ideas! Blessings to you, my friend, Mkewbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2001 Report Share Posted April 17, 2001 - <MKEWBIRD <Ramakrishna > Tuesday, April 17, 2001 04:19 Re: [ramakrishna] God > Dear Apoorva, > > You are asking wonderful questions. I think most of us struggle with these > questions, sometimes more, sometimes less, in the course of our spiritual > journey. Sometimes I think that one of the biggest challenges is to separate > our image of god from our ideas about our parents! (for example, our parents > want us to make them proud. Does god? Or does god love and accept us > exactly as we are, right here, right now?) > > Swami Vivekananda offered what, to me, is a sensible approach: whatever > makes you strong, do that; whatever makes you weak, avoid that. He also used > the image of a great tree, recommending we develop ourselves fully in all of > our potentialities. I read this as a call to develop our so-called " human > potential " ... and building our character. We are the Atman, but we identify > ourselves with our psychophysical being, and as long as we do so, we want to > maximize our human abilities and utilize our human gifts in the service of > God-as-man. > > My guru, Swami Ashokananda, once said in a lecture: " You may say, 'when > I close my eyes I see nothing, I do not see god. How can I worship him? ' > Wherever you see greatness, there is god. Worship that greatness as god. " > Which I take to mean that if we live up to our OWN highest values, then > we continue to make spiritual progress. > > Some " striving to be a better person " is a covert form of self-hatred. I > think we have to ask ourselves, why am I striving? Is it to expand ourselves > toward more universal love and experience, or is it a way of trying to be a > different person than we are? The latter is psychological suicide. > Anyhow, these are some of the conclusions I have come to over decades of > wrestling with Vedanta. You may reach different conclusions...the point is, > to wrestle with these ideas! > > Blessings to you, my friend, > > Mkewbird > > > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2001 Report Share Posted April 17, 2001 - <MKEWBIRD <Ramakrishna > Tuesday, April 17, 2001 04:19 Re: [ramakrishna] God > Dear Apoorva, > > My guru, Swami Ashokananda, once said in a lecture: " You may say, 'when > I close my eyes I see nothing, I do not see god. How can I worship him? ' > Wherever you see greatness, there is god. Worship that greatness as god. " > Which I take to mean that if we live up to our OWN highest values, then > we continue to make spiritual progress. > Dear Sir In your last posting you quoted Swami Ashokananda...... I am just reading the latest book to come out by Swami Ashokananda called " Ascent to spiritual illumination " . There are many on this list who hold Swami Ashokananda as a great spiritual personality of recent times. Recently when Sister Gayatriprana was in London she also mentioned his influence on the Vedantic work. May we request you to send postings about some of the teachings of Swami Ashokananda to this Ramakrishna list? (These postings will also automatically go to another list called 'Self Knowledge list' with further 450 members). A great many will benefit from such postings. jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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