[Sri Ramakrishna] Digest Number 927

October 11, 2001

Thanks Devinder. I will look for it.

Anup

October 11, 2001

I am posting my personal difficulties in the spiritual sadhana

in the hope that my fellow aspirants and the realised on this list

can give me ways and help that I can use to lift myself out of the morass

that I find myself in.

I have been trying to practice meditation since 1996. Initially it was

all great as I had the beginner's enthusiasm, steadfastness of purpose

and determination and longing to realise or die. My mind kept looking

for experiences and signs that I was progressing on the path. I got none

and it took me quite a while to understand that special experiences are

not necessary to indicate progress and might even be a distraction depending

on the nature of the individual. I even foolishly thought during this phase that

I had conquered lust. I have been sincere in my practice and missed about <10

days since I began.

Over the past 18 months, I am stuck in a phase in which my mind is fighting back

with

a vengence. All kind of evil thoughts rise in such force that I am helpless and

shudder that

I harbor these. Lust is the chief one among them, proving beyond a shadow of

doubt, that I am worse

off than before when I started the practice. Add anger, jealousy, ego, hatred

and a lot more to the mix

and my difficulties multiply. It is as if these are dark clouds which can visit

me anytime and leave

destruction in its wake. I try to make an inch of spiritual progress and these

tendencies

visit me and set me back by yards.

Am I doing wrong to have stirred a hornet's nest by beginning my practice? Would

I have been better

off letting " sleeping dogs lie " ? How am I to know whether I am progressing? To

me it seems I am in far

worse shape now than when I started. Is this typical for aspirants? Most

importantly, how I can raise

myself out of this hole that seems to get bigger by the moment? I will be

grateful for any help.

love,

Sreedhar

Ramakrishna wrote:

> Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

> ------

>

> There are 8 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in this digest:

>

> 1. Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

> " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda

> 2. VML-10/11/01

> ananta <sarada

> 3. Re: Bhaja Govindam... (1)

> DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja

> 4. Re: Digest Number 926

> alahiry

> 5. Re: Digest Number 926

> " Roy M. Mathur " <mathurro

> 6. Re: Digest Number 926

> DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja

> 7. RE: Digest Number 926

> K Kathirasan NCS <kkathir

> 8. Re: Digest Number 926

> sunderh

>

> ______________________

>

> Message: 1

> Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:04:26 +0100

> " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda

> Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

>

> Parts 1 to 76 were posted earlier. This is part 77. Your comments are

welcome... Vivekananda Centre London

> Earlier postings can be seen at

http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda.htm

>

> SWAMI VIVEKANANDA ON THE VEDAS AND UPANISHADS

> By Sister Gayatriprana

> part 77

> c) The Dualist Scheme of the Transmigration of Souls

>

> 1. The Results of Action Condition the Life of Humanity

>

> What comes after death? All the Vedantic philosophers admit that this jiva is

by its own nature pure. But ignorance covers up its real nature, they say. As by

evil deeds it has covered itself with ignorance, so by good deeds it become

conscious of its own nature again. Just as it is eternal, so its nature is pure.

The nature of every being is pure. (21)

>

> Both the dualists and the qualified dualists admit that the soul is by its

nature pure, but through its own deeds it becomes impure. The qualified monists

express it more beautifully than the dualists by saying that the soul's purity

and perfection become contracted and again become manifest, and what we are

trying to do is to re-manifest the intelligence, the purity, the power which is

natural to the soul. Souls have a multitude of qualities, but not that of

almightiness or all-knowingness. Every wicked deed contracts the nature of the

soul and every good deed expands it; and these souls are all parts of God. (22)

>

> According to [the popular idea of dualism] we have a body, of course, and

behind the body there is what they call the fine body. This fine body is also

made of matter, only very fine. It is the receptacle of all our karma, of all

our actions and impressions, which are ready to spring up into visible forms.

Every thought that we think, every deed that we do, after a certain time becomes

fine, goes into seed form, so to speak, and lives in the fine body in a

potential form; and after a time it emerges again and bears its results. These

results condition the life of humanity. Thus it molds its own life. Humans are

not bound by any other laws excepting those they make for themselves. Our

thoughts, our words and deeds are the threads of the net which we throw around

ourselves, for good or for evil. Once we set in motion a certain power we have

to take the full consequences of it. This is the law of karma. (23)

>

> Cross reference to:

>

> Mai. Up., 6.34

>

> Cha. Up., 5.10, 1-2

>

> 6.8.6

>

> [This message contained attachments]

>

> ______________________

>

> Message: 2

> Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:12:05 -0400

> ananta <sarada

> VML-10/11/01

>

> When you are judging man and woman, judge them by the standard of

> their respective greatness. One cannot be in other's shoes. The one

> has no right to say that the other is wicked. It is the same old

> superstition that says, " If this is done, the world will come to

> ruin. " But in spite of this the world has not yet come to ruin. It

> was said in this country that if the Negroes were freed the country

> would go to ruin-but did it? I was also said that if the masses were

> educated, the world would come to ruin-but it was only made better.

>

> ______________________

>

> Message: 3

> Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:42:18 -0700 (PDT)

> DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja

> Re: Bhaja Govindam... (1)

>

> I am delighted to know of this proposed posting of

> Bhaja Govindam on the list. I look forward to reading

> it. To my mind the great master Adi Sankara has

> composed this lovely set of poems with an outpouring

> of motherly love for humanity chiding them to use this

> life for its intended purpose. Gopi Krishna ji go

> ahead and share it with all of us. God bless you and

> the list. I think we as list memebers are going places

> with the grace of Thakur.

>

> Pranams

>

> --- Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda

> wrote:

> > I was approached by Gopi Krishna to comment on his

> > interpretation

> > of Bhaja Govindham. I have requested him to send

> > postings of

> > Bhaja Govindam to our list once or twice a week.

> >

> > This is is the first posting............

> > =================================================

> >

> > " Gopi Krishna " <gopi

> >

> > Pranams and Love to You.

> >

> > " .... I felt like knowing and at the same time

> > writing meanings of Bhaja

> > Govindham

> > for my own consumption, benefit and spiritual

> > upliftment. I know my

> > limitations very well and I do not have that kind of

> > knowledge either in

> > English or in Sanskrit. "

> >

> > I also add that:-

> >

> > " I would like to submit in all humility and respect,

> > as you may be aware,

> > that I am neither a scholar nor a well-read person.

> > It was a kind of

> > inspiration. That is all. "

> >

> > Love and regards

> >

> > Gopi Krishna.

> >

> > Om Sri Ganesaya Namaha

> > Om Namo Venkatesaya

> > Om Sri Adi Sankaraya Namaha

> > Om Sadguru Sri Sainathaya Namaha

> >

> > BHAJA GOVINDAM

> >

> > INTRODUCTION:

> >

> > The basic purpose of human existence is to realise

> > the Self. Soul is

> > considered as the representative of God in the human

> > body, which is made of

> > Pancha Tanmatras, i.e., Sabda, Sparsa, Rupa, Rasa

> > and Gandha. These Pancha

> > Tanmatras are represented in our body by Pancha

> > Jnanedriyas, i.e., Eyes,

> > Ears, Nose, Tongue and Skin. If these gross aspects

> > are properly used for

> > the service of others with Nishkama Bhavana and for

> > self-advancement

> > spiritually, then one can overcome the innate

> > sense-habits of

> > body-identification and develop intuitive perception

> > and discrimination.

> > Discrimination is distorted by the limitations of

> > sense impressions. The

> > only way out of getting entrapped in this quagmire

> > or quicksand is to raise

> > oneself above the body-consciousness. There are

> > several ways for it. Of

> > them, the most important are Bhakti, Jnana and Karma

> > Yogas. Yoga means to

> > unite; to unite one with the chosen God or Goddess

> > following one of the

> > three paths identified above, depending upon one's

> > temperament and taste.

> > One of the minor compositions " Bhaja Govindam " of

> > Jagatguru Sri Adi

> > Sankaracharya, shows the way to achieve this.

> >

> > to be continued.....

> >

October 12, 2001

Dear Sreedhar-

Your experience seems pretty normal for most spiritual

aspirants. Here's what I think this is happening:

As you are quieting and calming your mind, you are

becoming more aware of this restlessness in the form

of obstacles to your peace and sadhana.... These

" obstacles " were always there- they were just in

latent form. It's like a bottle of soda. When it's

sealed and compressed you don't see the bubbles. When

you shake it and pop the top off, all the bubbles rise

to the surface with a fury. It you can hold on to your

faith and keep practicing, this storm will eventually

subside....

Just think that without sadhana you would have only

the illusion of tranquility or peace- as most worldly

people believe when their desires are satisfied. But

take away these attachments and the mind goes wild!!

Sadhana is freeing the mind from restless desires and

attachments- it's a letting go process. This can

create a storm as the mind/ego clings more strongly to

those attachments that give it a sense of identity and

control (of course the ego always wants to believe

it's in control, even if it's attached to pain- and

society also expects us to keep a 'stiff upper lip'

and not show our vulnerbilities). You know an animal

that has been in a cage for a long time becomes

insecure when released into the wild. The mind is like

that too. Whether you are in a cage of gold (sattva)

or a cage of iron (rajas/tamas), it is still a

familiar place. The only way to get free is to put

your faith in God and Guru and continue to practice.

This storm will pass eventually. Remember to spend

time with spiritual people, as Thakur always

recommended, and meditate on some uplifting words

(Swamiji is always good for this!).

RD

--- " Sreedhar T. Bharath " <sbharath

wrote:

> I am posting my personal difficulties in the

> spiritual sadhana

> in the hope that my fellow aspirants and the

> realised on this list

> can give me ways and help that I can use to lift

> myself out of the morass

> that I find myself in.

>

> I have been trying to practice meditation since

> 1996. Initially it was

> all great as I had the beginner's enthusiasm,

> steadfastness of purpose

> and determination and longing to realise or die. My

> mind kept looking

> for experiences and signs that I was progressing on

> the path. I got none

> and it took me quite a while to understand that

> special experiences are

> not necessary to indicate progress and might even be

> a distraction depending

> on the nature of the individual. I even foolishly

> thought during this phase that

> I had conquered lust. I have been sincere in my

> practice and missed about <10

> days since I began.

>

> Over the past 18 months, I am stuck in a phase in

> which my mind is fighting back with

> a vengence. All kind of evil thoughts rise in such

> force that I am helpless and shudder that

> I harbor these. Lust is the chief one among them,

> proving beyond a shadow of doubt, that I am worse

> off than before when I started the practice. Add

> anger, jealousy, ego, hatred and a lot more to the

> mix

> and my difficulties multiply. It is as if these are

> dark clouds which can visit me anytime and leave

> destruction in its wake. I try to make an inch of

> spiritual progress and these tendencies

> visit me and set me back by yards.

>

> Am I doing wrong to have stirred a hornet's nest by

> beginning my practice? Would I have been better

> off letting " sleeping dogs lie " ? How am I to know

> whether I am progressing? To me it seems I am in far

> worse shape now than when I started. Is this typical

> for aspirants? Most importantly, how I can raise

> myself out of this hole that seems to get bigger by

> the moment? I will be grateful for any help.

>

> love,

> Sreedhar

>

Ramakrishna wrote:

>

> > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> > Vivekananda Centre London

> > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

> >

>

------

> >

> > There are 8 messages in this issue.

> >

> > Topics in this digest:

> >

> > 1. Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

> > " Vivekananda Centre "

> <vivekananda

> > 2. VML-10/11/01

> > ananta <sarada

> > 3. Re: Bhaja Govindam... (1)

> > DEVINDER AHUJA

> <devahuja

> > 4. Re: Digest Number 926

> > alahiry

> > 5. Re: Digest Number 926

> > " Roy M. Mathur "

> <mathurro

> > 6. Re: Digest Number 926

> > DEVINDER AHUJA

> <devahuja

> > 7. RE: Digest Number 926

> > K Kathirasan NCS

> <kkathir

> > 8. Re: Digest Number 926

> > sunderh

> >

>

______________________

> >

>

______________________

> >

> > Message: 1

> > Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:04:26 +0100

> > " Vivekananda Centre "

> <vivekananda

> > Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

> >

> > Parts 1 to 76 were posted earlier. This is part

> 77. Your comments are welcome... Vivekananda Centre

> London

> > Earlier postings can be seen at

> http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda.htm

> >

> > SWAMI VIVEKANANDA ON THE VEDAS AND UPANISHADS

> > By Sister Gayatriprana

> > part 77

> > c) The Dualist Scheme of the Transmigration of

> Souls

> >

> > 1. The Results of Action Condition the Life of

> Humanity

> >

> > What comes after death? All the Vedantic

> philosophers admit that this jiva is by its own

> nature pure. But ignorance covers up its real

> nature, they say. As by evil deeds it has covered

> itself with ignorance, so by good deeds it become

> conscious of its own nature again. Just as it is

> eternal, so its nature is pure. The nature of every

> being is pure. (21)

> >

> > Both the dualists and the qualified dualists admit

> that the soul is by its nature pure, but through its

> own deeds it becomes impure. The qualified monists

> express it more beautifully than the dualists by

> saying that the soul's purity and perfection become

> contracted and again become manifest, and what we

> are trying to do is to re-manifest the intelligence,

> the purity, the power which is natural to the soul.

> Souls have a multitude of qualities, but not that of

> almightiness or all-knowingness. Every wicked deed

> contracts the nature of the soul and every good deed

> expands it; and these souls are all parts of God.

> (22)

> >

> > According to [the popular idea of dualism] we have

> a body, of course, and behind the body there is what

> they call the fine body. This fine body is also made

> of matter, only very fine. It is the receptacle of

> all our karma, of all our actions and impressions,

> which are ready to spring up into visible forms.

> Every thought that we think, every deed that we do,

> after a certain time becomes fine, goes into seed

> form, so to speak, and lives in the fine body in a

> potential form; and after a time it emerges again

> and bears its results. These results condition the

> life of humanity. Thus it molds its own life. Humans

> are not bound by any other laws excepting those they

> make for themselves. Our thoughts, our words and

> deeds are the threads of the net which we throw

> around ourselves, for good or for evil. Once we set

> in motion a certain power we have to take the full

> consequences of it. This is the law of karma. (23)

> >

> > Cross reference to:

> >

> > Mai. Up., 6.34

> >

> > Cha. Up., 5.10, 1-2

> >

> > 6.8.6

> >

> > [This message contained attachments]

> >

>

______________________

> >

>

______________________

> >

> > Message: 2

> > Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:12:05 -0400

> > ananta <sarada

> > VML-10/11/01

> >

> > When you are judging man and woman, judge them by

> the standard of

> > their respective greatness. One cannot be in

> other's shoes. The one

> > has no right to say that the other is wicked. It

> is the same old

> > superstition that says, " If this is done, the

> world will come to

> > ruin. " But in spite of this the world has not yet

> come to ruin. It

> > was said in this country that if the Negroes were

> freed the country

> > would go to ruin-but did it? I was also said that

> if the masses were

> > educated, the world would come to ruin-but it was

> only made better.

> >

>

______________________

> >

>

______________________

>

=== message truncated ===

Make a great connection at Personals.

http://personals.

October 12, 2001

Dear Sreedhar ji

Consider me as a fellow traveller on the spiritual

path and let me give you some advice. I have gone

through what you are now going through and I am still

on the job. First the good news is that you are making

progress and like every spiritual aspirant you can not

make this out. Second good news is that not a single

effort on this journey taken in good faith and with

sincerety is wasted. Read the Gita where Arjuna asked

the Lord as to what happens to a man who falls down

while travelling on the spiritual path. The Lord is

clear that nothing is wasted. No one who walks on this

path ever comes to grief and the efforts are preserved

by the Lord himself.

Now do the following from here onwards

1. You have been walking too fast and too early. Take

small steps, slowly but sincerely since you are at a

tender stage of vulnerability to lust, greed etc.

Meditation, lust control (in your case it is clearly

suppression)are strong steps. You are not ready for

it.

So do some stretching exercises prior to big

exercises.

2. What you should do is Japa, study of spiritual

books, recitation of hymns, going to temple (take any

one or more of these as may appeal to you mind. In

other words start increasing the " market share " of

spirituality related matters in your mind. DONT USE

FORCE. Use your empty time when lust is not bothering

you to take your mind to God. Try and remember God as

many times as you can in your schedule daily.

3. Do not carry guilt about all you negative

tendencies

like lust. Just talk to God as you talk to a friend

and tell him that he knows everything and ask him for

help. Surrender, surrender and surrender. Tell GOD to

just take you as you are and clean you up. Dont worry,

he will do that. Pray, pray and pray whenever you

can....morning, evening, in the cloakroom wherever you

get time.

4. Stop directly fighting your enemies like lust,

greed etc. They will prosper if you fight. They love

it. Ignore them and let them be there. If they are

gripping you just let them do that. Let them drag you

and you should preserve your strength. They can not

defeat you. They can only delay your progress.

5. Be a good human being. Have an equal vision towards

all beings. Have love and compassion. Do not indulge

in thinking bad about anydody. Do not think crookedly.

God dislikes crooked nature. Respect all life. For God

all creation is precious. To him the lowliest creature

is also as important as the mightiest saint. For his

own light is in all...living as well as non living.

Share your wealth and knowledge. Do not be narrow

hearted.

LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST I AM SOMETIMES MYSELF NOT ABLE

TO FOLLOW MY OWN ADVICE BUT LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT THE

ADVICE IS RIGHT. FOLLOW IT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

Best of luck.....Dev

Make a great connection at Personals.

http://personals.

October 12, 2001

Dear Baharath,

You are on the right path. Everyone who is on the

spiritual path has to go through all this. I myself have gone through it.

In the starting its passion, urge and a subtle attraction but as we keep

progressing it becomes fine. I came across one analogy which was given to

understand this particular situation through which you are going through.

If a room is closed for years. The dirt is there but its all setlled down.

When we start cleaning the room it gets filled with cloud of dust.

While cleaning it will appear that state of the room is very dusty compared

to its earlier state. Same happens in spirituality.

To rise above different desires we have to understand them. Their

limitations, harm and short life. On spiritual path we will be continously

tested. And the test appears in form of situations where our understanding

of desires and inclination towards them will be tested. So one has to be all

strong in his will power and should have a strong focus towards spiritual

upliftment.

Be strong in your commitment towards spirituality. Don't let your mind loose

its focus. You have to control your mind more strongly in such a situation.

If you are able to control it you will be moving ahead if not then you will

gain come back one step. There is no other go you have cross this barrier.

Continue with the cleaning process, clouds of dust don't last for long.

Spiritual Teacher can help in easing ones way in such conditions. If i am

able to recall properly even Vivekananda seeked the help of Sri Ramakrishna

Paramhansa when it was becoming impossible for him to control the heightened

desires during his spiritual journey.

Dirt shows up when we start cleaning. Observe this when you wash your

clothes. But its all gone as soon as you rinse the clothes in water. When

you will rinse yourself with love all this will go away. Love is the

solution. Ask your spiritual teacher he can give you some sadhana or mantra

or ask you to do some activities which will help in bringing down this

agony.

Sreedhar T. Bharath [sbharath]

Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:38 PM

Ramakrishna

Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Digest Number 927

I am posting my personal difficulties in the spiritual sadhana

in the hope that my fellow aspirants and the realised on this list

can give me ways and help that I can use to lift myself out of the morass

that I find myself in.

I have been trying to practice meditation since 1996. Initially it was

all great as I had the beginner's enthusiasm, steadfastness of purpose

and determination and longing to realise or die. My mind kept looking

for experiences and signs that I was progressing on the path. I got none

and it took me quite a while to understand that special experiences are

not necessary to indicate progress and might even be a distraction depending

on the nature of the individual. I even foolishly thought during this phase

that

I had conquered lust. I have been sincere in my practice and missed about

<10

days since I began.

Over the past 18 months, I am stuck in a phase in which my mind is fighting

back with

a vengence. All kind of evil thoughts rise in such force that I am helpless

and shudder that

I harbor these. Lust is the chief one among them, proving beyond a shadow of

doubt, that I am worse

off than before when I started the practice. Add anger, jealousy, ego,

hatred and a lot more to the mix

and my difficulties multiply. It is as if these are dark clouds which can

visit me anytime and leave

destruction in its wake. I try to make an inch of spiritual progress and

these tendencies

visit me and set me back by yards.

Am I doing wrong to have stirred a hornet's nest by beginning my practice?

Would I have been better

off letting " sleeping dogs lie " ? How am I to know whether I am progressing?

To me it seems I am in far

worse shape now than when I started. Is this typical for aspirants? Most

importantly, how I can raise

myself out of this hole that seems to get bigger by the moment? I will be

grateful for any help.

love,

Sreedhar

Ramakrishna wrote:

> Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.vivekananda.co.uk <http://www.vivekananda.co.uk>

> ------

>

> There are 8 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in this digest:

>

> 1. Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

> " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda

> 2. VML-10/11/01

> ananta <sarada

> 3. Re: Bhaja Govindam... (1)

> DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja

> 4. Re: Digest Number 926

> alahiry

> 5. Re: Digest Number 926

> " Roy M. Mathur " <mathurro

> 6. Re: Digest Number 926

> DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja

> 7. RE: Digest Number 926

> K Kathirasan NCS <kkathir

> 8. Re: Digest Number 926

> sunderh

>

> ______________________

>

> Message: 1

> Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:04:26 +0100

> " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda

> Vivekananda on the Vedas (part 77)

>

> Parts 1 to 76 were posted earlier. This is part 77. Your comments are

welcome... Vivekananda Centre London

> Earlier postings can be seen at

http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda.htm

<http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda.htm>

>

> SWAMI VIVEKANANDA ON THE VEDAS AND UPANISHADS

> By Sister Gayatriprana

> part 77

> c) The Dualist Scheme of the Transmigration of Souls

>

> 1. The Results of Action Condition the Life of Humanity

>

> What comes after death? All the Vedantic philosophers admit that this jiva

is by its own nature pure. But ignorance covers up its real nature, they

say. As by evil deeds it has covered itself with ignorance, so by good deeds

it become conscious of its own nature again. Just as it is eternal, so its

nature is pure. The nature of every being is pure. (21)

>

> Both the dualists and the qualified dualists admit that the soul is by its

nature pure, but through its own deeds it becomes impure. The qualified

monists express it more beautifully than the dualists by saying that the

soul's purity and perfection become contracted and again become manifest,

and what we are trying to do is to re-manifest the intelligence, the purity,

the power which is natural to the soul. Souls have a multitude of qualities,

but not that of almightiness or all-knowingness. Every wicked deed contracts

the nature of the soul and every good deed expands it; and these souls are

all parts of God. (22)

>

> According to [the popular idea of dualism] we have a body, of course, and

behind the body there is what they call the fine body. This fine body is

also made of matter, only very fine. It is the receptacle of all our karma,

of all our actions and impressions, which are ready to spring up into

visible forms. Every thought that we think, every deed that we do, after a

certain time becomes fine, goes into seed form, so to speak, and lives in

the fine body in a potential form; and after a time it emerges again and

bears its results. These results condition the life of humanity. Thus it

molds its own life. Humans are not bound by any other laws excepting those

they make for themselves. Our thoughts, our words and deeds are the threads

of the net which we throw around ourselves, for good or for evil. Once we

set in motion a certain power we have to take the full consequences of it.

This is the law of karma. (23)