Guest guest Posted November 11, 2001 Report Share Posted November 11, 2001 In response to the question bout ISKCON, let me make reference to the passage in which Yajnavalkya is asked how many gods there are. Most Hindus know the passage to which I refer. The first answer says there are 333,000 gods. With each successive question and answer, the number of Gods is reduced. Ultimately, when asked, " And how many gods are there, Yajnavalkya, " the answer is given, " There is only one. " This is such a wonderful aspect of Hinduism. It is inclusive, not exclusive. Any religion which is exclusive needs to rethink its communications strategy. Notice I havenot blamed the religious beliefs per se, but the manner of communicating them. Meanwhile, among the other passages to which I would refer you, consider that at the World Parliament of Religions when Vivekananda made such strides in opening up the West to a more englightened understanding of the East, he stressed on the very first day of speaking that Hinduism is monistic and not polytheistic. So to say that there are many scriptures that refer to Sri Krishna as the Supreme Lord, and I know, in truth, there are many, then one must realize that in that one, then, are found the many. Light that is one though the lamps be many. So when you worship Shivji, Ganapati, Lakshmi, Swami Narayana, Balaram, Durga, Narasingha...Hanuman..we are worshipping Krishna anyway. And when we worship Sri Krishna, even as the Supreme Lord, we thus must be worshipping Shiva, Hanuman, Ganesha, Venkateshwara, Saraswati, Kali and Brahma. The ultimate duality is found in making division. Something, once one thing, one unified, once united...is now divided, cleaved, like a sword cleaves a melon. And something that was once in union with Divine Godhead, while Divine Godhead cannot be cleaved, has created a situation in which namarupa, the expression of name and form, has been perceived. And in this perception of I and Thou, words which are the title of the great Western Philosoph Martin Buber's book, we create all estrangement, diviseness, otherness, nationalism, materialism, polarity, separateness, duality, and ultimately hatred of other, hatred of other than like, hatred of non- believers, the right to obliterate others. To say that one god is the Supreme Lord and the others are subject to that lord is the same as saying that I shall not obey the policeman but only the president. It is ultimately of little consequence which you choose for your ishtadeva, and what a wonderful Hindu concept that is, but rather the degree of realization of your True Divine Self that occurs as the result of your worship. We do not eat the apple tree. We eat of its fruit. And one other person who is engaging in this selfistic undertaking -- to make the Divine Self shine through by eclipsing all that divides us from it -- just one other person has made the world a better place and helped us all back to Godhead. Jayadeva > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > ------ > > There are 8 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Online version of Gospel and many good books. > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > 2. VML-11/10/01 > ananta <sarada > 3. Doubt !!! > chaganti srinivas <cnu_ind > 4. Re: Questions about ISKCON and Sankirtana Movement > DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja > 5. RE: Doubt !!! > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS > 6. Vedic Verse > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > 7. Re: Digest Number 957 > " sivaramakrishnan muthuswamy " <m_sivaramakrishnan > 8. VML-11/11/01 > ananta <sarada > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:01:29 -0000 > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > Re: Online version of Gospel and many good books. > > - > " SRK Child " <srkchild > <Ramakrishna >; <vivekananda >; > <selfknow-l; <vivekananda > Saturday, November 10, 2001 06:37 > [sri Ramakrishna] Online version of Gospel and many good books. > > > > Hi all - > > > > Is there any online version of Gospel and many good > > books from Ramakrishna Mission ? > > > > If NOT, I am ready to work on it. Maybe we can do them > > in both formats - a light HTML version and a heavy > > with all the necessary pics - a PDF format. > > > > What you all think about this ? Please let me know > > your views so that I will talk to the respective > > authorities about it. > > > > Please reply your mails here as well as cc them to - > > anand > > > > Thanks in advance. BYE. > > > > Regards. > > > > Jai Sri Ramakrishna. > > > > Anand Joshi. > > Pune, INDIA. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~# > > Dear Anand > > Your enthusiasm is highly appreciated. I have received the thumbnail > prints for our photo album and am in the process of incorporating > them on our site. > > If you visit our main page http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk > you will find a link called Sarada Mandir. The person who has > designed this site had started writing up the Kathamrita. > He has not completed the job. > You can see that he has worked very hard. > I understand that he (who does not like to be > named) is working on it to complete it. > > We are also incorporating the book > Vivekananda on the Vedas and Upanishads by > Sister Gayatriprana on our site. > http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/veda.htm > > > If you visit our home page > http://www.vivekananda.btinternet.co.uk/home.htm > You will find that there are a few sites there that > contain other material related to the teachings of > Swami Vivekananda and Sri Ramakrishna. > > If any list members know of any other relevant > sites that should be linked from our home page > please let me know. > > The CD: > CD with Complete works of Swami Vivekananda can > be bought from the Advaita Ashram and contains a > great deal of material (including All the six volumes of > Sister Gargi's recent discoveries). > > regards > jay ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:15:46 -0500 > ananta <sarada > VML-11/10/01 > > The great error in all ethical systems, without exception, has been > the failure of teaching the means by which man could refrain from > doing evil. All the systems of ethics teach, " Do not steal! " Very > good; but why does a man steal? Because stealing, robbing, and other > evil actions, as a rule, have become automatic. The systematic > robber, thief, liar, unjust man and women, are all these in spite of > themselves. It is really a tremendous psychological problem. > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 3 > Sat, 10 Nov 2001 05:09:15 -0800 (PST) > chaganti srinivas <cnu_ind > Doubt !!! > > Hi all > > off late I ve been reading Bhagwat Gita published by > the ISKCON society....there it has been repeatedly > emphasized that The Gods soul(Lord Krishna) and human > souls are eternally different and can never be the > same but they do have an eternal relationship with > each other and one who works in Krishna consciousness > (according to the will of God) can only be saved > .....doesn't this contradict the advaita philosophy > which doesn't preach dualism .....which says this > whole universe is ONE manifested in different forms.. > ?? > > I feel These two philosophies are mutually > exclusive....i mean how can be believe dualism as well > as non dualism ?? ...at a give point of time only one > can be true !!! ....but i dont know which one ?? > > Somehow i find Advaitism more convincing. > > I would love to know the lists view on this aspect. > > regards > srinivas chaganti > > > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers. > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 4 > Sat, 10 Nov 2001 05:21:53 -0800 (PST) > DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja > Re: Questions about ISKCON and Sankirtana Movement > > There is one thing that ISKCON movement has done as a > great service to humanity which is taking the Maha > Mantra all across the globe and making people sing > that. Srila Prabhupada has created a revolution of > Hari Nam Sankirtan which in its own way is > umparalleled. > The greatness of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is undisputed > and no one would question his being an Avatar. My > personal belief is that all Great souls who are born > perfect are Avatars and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was among > them just as Sri Ramakrishna or Adi Sankara. > However the only thing that disturbs a lot of people > and I am one of them is the reference to all Gods > other than Sri Krishna as " demi gods " and shaking the > beliefs of others to whom another God may appeal. > I hesitate to use the word dogmatism but am not able > to find amother suitable term. At the end the point is > that Sri Krishna is no doubt representative of the > Supreme God Head as the ISKCON movement says but then > no one has the right to question the belief of another > who out of love believes that Lord Siva or Mother Kali > is supreme. > > Regards > > Dev > > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers. > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 5 > Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:51:44 +1100 > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS > RE: Doubt !!! > > Srinivas > > My understanding of the issue is as under: > As a matter of fact, dualism and non-dualism are not different but the same. > Dualism is at a lower plane or level and non-dualism is at a higher level > (no superiority of one over the other intended). Both are floors of the > same building or probably two rooms in the same house. In one room, > (dualism) you have the image of God, you worship, you sing bhajans etc. In > the other, there is nothing except you sitting in deep meditation trying to > realise that God and you are one (non-dualism). > > Dualism is Bhakti Marg. Dualism can appeal to masses since it is easy to > comprehend. All Bhakti margies imply dualism where God is different than > you and needs to be worshiped etc etc. Krishna consciousness does not mean > 'according to will of God' but in the consciousness or illumination/light > that Krishna naturally emits. > > Non-dualism is Jnana Marg. The way of Knowledge. It requires a sound > reasoning and understanding of scientific method and can appeal to rational > beings. > > It could be a bit confusing in the beginning to know that dualism and > non-dualism are basically the same. THe latter is more at an abstract > level. SImilar confusion can initially arise when in the Gita, Krishna says > Karma and Akarma are the same thing. But with a careful thought one will > easily realise that it is very correct and karma and Akarma are actually > the same thing. > > To avoid confusion, I would suggest you read Gita by Gita Press Gorakhpur or > better still Talks on Gita by Vinoba. However, if you want an intellectual > challenge , the best recourse is Lokmanya Tilak's Gita Rahasya. > > Hope this helps > > Dr Milind Sathye > School of Accounting, Banking and Finance > University of Canberra, Canberra, ACT 2601, Australia > Telephone: 6+ 2+ 6201 5489 Fax: 61+ 2+ 6201 5238 > AND > Adjunct Professor, Graduate College of Management, > Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW > > > > > chaganti srinivas [cnu_ind] > Sunday, 11 November 2001 12:09 AM > Ramakrishna > [sri Ramakrishna] Doubt !!! > > > Hi all > > off late I ve been reading Bhagwat Gita published by > the ISKCON society....there it has been repeatedly > emphasized that The Gods soul(Lord Krishna) and human > souls are eternally different and can never be the > same but they do have an eternal relationship with > each other and one who works in Krishna consciousness > (according to the will of God) can only be saved > .....doesn't this contradict the advaita philosophy > which doesn't preach dualism .....which says this > whole universe is ONE manifested in different forms.. > ?? > > I feel These two philosophies are mutually > exclusive....i mean how can be believe dualism as well > as non dualism ?? ...at a give point of time only one > can be true !!! ....but i dont know which one ?? > > Somehow i find Advaitism more convincing. > > I would love to know the lists view on this aspect. > > regards > srinivas chaganti > > > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers. > > > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2001 Report Share Posted November 11, 2001 Dear Srinivas and Dev, Nice to know the argument on Bagavad Gita of Swami Prabupada. Well, the concept of ISCKON is different and based on Vasishtadwitham - Part of god is manifested into human soul. Madhwa's philosophy is Dualism or Dwitham. Well, Chaithanya, proclamation is the expression of his true bakthi. He experenced the joy by chanting god's name. So, he is advocating the god's path. Similarly, Sri Ramakrishna proved that all yogas leads to the same path. It is matter of choice for us to follow. Adi Shankarachariya is the first who wrote commentry on Bagavad Gita which stress on the advaitha philosophy. Many Ashram books of ours are also based on the same philosophy. Gita press is economical and good but i feel the translations from our ashram are apt to follow, as we are towards it. Also our ashram has the Bagavad Gita with bashya by Adi Shankara. I prefer to follow the one from our ashrama. If a person is convienced of the philosophy of Vasishtadwitham then he can follow the " Bagavad Gita - as it is " of ISCKON. As Miland rightly pointed out the state of the Dualism, which is in the lower level. Initially in a practice of spritual life, dualism plays an important role, because our atman is still not awakened. A master servent relationship is important. Once the realisation is attained then everything will be the same. As long as we have attachment in this world, the dualism will persist as the advaitic philosophy will come into picture upon renunciation. Sincerely yours sivaramakrishnan _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2001 Report Share Posted November 11, 2001 Dear Anand; That is a great idea. I sure will love it. Anup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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