Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Rahul and Sam Thanks for your comments. I like this thing about Hindus, whenever someone gets up to defend Hinduism, Hindus get up to defend other religions. I wish such a secular attitude is shown by other religious zealots too. If it was, Jay would not have to undergo what he had to and what we all have to whenever filth is thrown on Hinduism. Q1. " Hinduism did produce a living Christ like Gandhi but with crucifixation the last good Christian vanished from this earth " A1. I do not have any intention to bash Christianity or christians perse but only the 'sales team' of christianity (and this is what Swamiji too did: read Chicago speeches). The Vatican announced in its Strategic Plan for 2000, 'our goal is to rid India of the darkness of Hinduism'. This one upmanship is all that hurts. Hindus never proclaimed 'ours is the only way' in fact Ramakrishna said 'as many faiths so many ways' and Adi Sankara advised ' no need to convert to Hiduism, your own religion is good too'. I wish if such an attitude could be taken by every religious institution, misery and sorrow will disappear instantly from earth and the only miserable people left would be the 'salesmen'. Even during the life time of Christ, Hinduism was very much present and Christ being an Asian (present day Jordanian) must have been aware about it. However, no where in the Bible I find that Jesus made any such statement (as made by the Vatican). Thus the salesmen are miles away from Christ. Q2 It seems that some people take very much pride and delight in Christian bashing which is no different in intensity than criticizing of Hinduism by few people of other faith. A2 I have and continue to read the New Testament. I do visit the Church as I am a regular at the Ramakrishana Mission. I respect Christ himself as much as I do Ramakrishna, Buddha or Mohammad. My head bows before Mother Teresa as it does before Pandurang Shastri Athavale. My worry is only about the 'salesmen'. If these 'salesmen' had read and understood what Jesus said they would not have propogated 'I am ok you are not ok' sort of philosophy. But they do and why not? Who wants to lose a job anyway!! Q3'Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy " : A3. I accept my mistake please read 'Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy among the salesmen " . The competitor has a better (or equally good- if you like) product and it is available free. That makes the job of salesmen harder. No one likes this. Thanks again for your comments, free flow of thoughts is a distinguishing mark of Hinduism for ages. I am glad it continues to be. However, to respect others, with this email I close this topic from my side. Milind Rahul Ganjiwale [rahulganjiwale] Saturday, 2 February 2002 1:07 PM Ramakrishna [sri Ramakrishna] Re: Marketing Jesus Namaskar, Every now and then some disturbing mail appears in the Ramakrishna mailing list. However such mails are very important as they provide each person an opportunity to analyze and improve upon their thoughts. It seems that some people take very much pride and delight in Christian bashing which is no different in intensity than criticizing of Hinduism by few people of other faith. Statements like " Hinduism did produce a living Christ like Gandhi but with crucifixation the last good Christian vanished from this earth " is really uncalled for in Ramakrishna mailing list , if am allowed to say so. Proclaiming " Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy " - Sure not! When a respected list member tries to demoralize or humiliate followers of other faith. Rather, one is only raising hatred by making statements like the one above. The same hatred in his heart for the Christians is clearly demonstrated.... I did'nt intend to hurt anybody's feelings, i am sorry if i did but i very much felt like expressing honestly what i observed... With regards and best wishes for all Rahul >Ramakrishna >Ramakrishna >Ramakrishna >[sri Ramakrishna] Digest Number 1039 >1 Feb 2002 22:33:53 -0000 > >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah >Vivekananda Centre London >http://www.vivekananda.co.uk >------ > >There are 5 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. VML-1/31/02 > ananta <sarada > 2. Life of Sri Maa - 15 > " Gokulmuthu N. " <gokulmuthu > 3. Marketing Jesus > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS > 4. Re: Digest 1038 > " Brad Stephan " <brad > 5. Re: Re: Digest 1038 > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:43:02 -0500 > ananta <sarada >VML-1/31/02 > >Then the bull said, " The East is a part of the Lord, so is the West, >so is the South, so is the North. The four cardinal points are the >four parts of Brahman. Fire will also teach you something of >Brahman. " Fire was a great symbol in those days, and every student >had to procure fire and make offerings. So on the following day, >Satyakama started for his Guru's house, and when in the evening he >had performed his oblation, and worshipped at the fire, and was >sitting near it, he heard a voice come from the fire, " O Satyakama. " > " Speak, Lord, " said Satyakama. (Perhaps you may remember a very >similar story in the Old Testament, how Samuel heard a mysterious >voice.) " O Satyakama, I am come to teach you a little of Brahman This >earth is a portion of that Brahman. The sky and the heaven are >portions of It. The ocean is a part of that Brahman. " > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:07:27 +0530 > " Gokulmuthu N. " <gokulmuthu >Life of Sri Maa - 15 > >Life of Sri Maa - 15 > > Sri Sarada Devi's happy days at Dakshineswar were over in April >1885. The Master, afflicted by a sore throat which bled, had to be shifted >to Shyampukur in Calcutta, for facility of treatment. Soon her presence was >needed at Shyampukur, especially to cook his meals. The Master's illness >turned from bad to worse and had to be shifted to a more spacious place >at Cossipore in December 1885. Here too, Sarada Devi occupied a small room >on the ground floor, and was busy with various chores. > > Here, at Cossipore, before her eyes, the Master laid the foundation >for the future monastic order, training his young disciples, in spite of >the >excruciating pain he was suffering from. One day, looking earnestly at her, >he said: `Look here, won't you do anything? Must this [pointing to his >body] >do everything?' But she protested, `What can I do? I am a mere woman.' `No, >no,' Sri Ramakrishna insisted, `you will have to do many things.' On >another >occasion he said to her: `Look at the people of Calcutta. They are like >worms >squirming in darkness. You must bring light to them.' > > >--------- -- >Extracts from the book : Sri Sarada Devi (A biography in pictures) > Advaita Ashrama, Calcutta (http://www.advaitaonline.com/). > > >-- >--------------- >Email: gokulmuthu >Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/ >Phone: +91 80 6689904, 6689938, 6780026-9 > +91 80 2384190-3 Ext. 227 > +91 44 8140104 >--------------- > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:38:33 +1100 > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS >Marketing Jesus > >No wonder Jay was considered as a threat in the second session. >When Hinduism is put down it could be due to many reasons: some of these >are: >1. Since Christianity is treated as a product to be marketed one way to >market the product is to denigrate the competitors product. SO bash >Hinduism and proclaim Christ as the only way. I remember a textile company >in India advertising 'Only Vimal' all else is second rate. This is what >christians are doing. Our Masters were so great that they did not allow >Hinduism to get reduced to such a level. Neither did Christ himself. It >is >the 'marketing team' of Christ which is doing this. >2. Marketing team has a pecuniary interest. Salesmen get paid a commision >on sales and so also on spreading christianity. >3.The Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy. Other religions look so >elementary in its presence! It is easier to throw filth on it than to raise >ourselves to that level which is a hard task. >4. Show filth and find out if we can answer that. If we do, then find some >other fault and continue the blamegame. >5. Gandhi righty said in reply to Katherin Mayo's Mother India. Her book >is >like drain inspector's report. SO all who find only faults in Hinduism >are >like drain inspectors. >6. Hinduism did produce a living Christ like Gandhi but with crucifixation >the last good Christian vanished from this earth. >7. Many ministries have sprang up all over the world. Books are published >and sold on Christ. Seminars are held (with entry fee) to learn about >Christ. SO 'Christ' is a big industry. Would you like the industry to >collapse like Enron by telling people about Hinduism which is free and is >for everyone? > >Dr Milind Sathye > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:27:05 -0800 > " Brad Stephan " <brad >Re: Digest 1038 > >Dear jay: > >I know you want to move past this topic, but my guess is Digest 1039 will >generate lots of traffic on this important topic. Indeed, there's probably >no topic more important right now than the challenges and opportunities >relating to interfaith dialogue. I know there are a lot of symposiums and >groups dedicated to interfaith dialogue in America right now (I was a >participant in a Christian-Hindu Studies List but, unfortunately, it was >shut down last summer by its University-based sponsors, because they felt >it >was becoming too political and less academic.) > >The Ramakrishna List, I believe, is a fairly good forum for interfaith >discussion, because its participants are primarily interested in spiritual >growth, rather than email argumentation, and because of the fact that >Vedanta is inclusive and non-judgemental in its theology - two attibutes >greatly needed in our world today. (On a related question, I have the sense >that not all " Hindu " are " Vedantists " - causing some to be just as >judgemental of other religions, as many Christians are. Someone please >educate me.) > >Richard, sadly, I must agree with your remarks (as you used the word " most " >rather than " all " when describing Christians). Interestingly, it was from >the East (Paramahansa Yogananda) that I discovered the Truth of the West >(i.e., Christ's teachings). Until the deeper, spiritual truths of Christ's >teachings were pointed out to me, I was never attracted to Him through > " Churchianity " (Yoganandaji, I believe, coined that term!). > >jay, if you don't mind baring your soul a little further, if could relive >your presentation, would you change anything? > >God Bless, >Brad > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 > Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:12:39 -0000 > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda >Re: Re: Digest 1038 > > >- > " Brad Stephan " <brad > " The Ramakrishna List " <ramakrishna > >Friday, February 01, 2002 04:27 >[sri Ramakrishna] Re: Digest 1038 > > > > Dear jay: > > > > I know you want to move past this topic, but my guess is Digest 1039 >will > > generate lots of traffic on this important topic. Indeed, there's >probably > > no topic more important right now than the challenges and opportunities > > relating to interfaith dialogue. > > > > jay, if you don't mind baring your soul a little further, if could >relive > > your presentation, would you change anything? > > > > God Bless, > > Brad > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Dear Brad > >I appreciate your dedication to the theme pursued by this list. > >(1) As I said in my last email I was responding to a special >situation... hence I was severe, nothing to glorify. >On second thoughts would I have done anything different? >No. I was measured and controlled and did not digress >from what was asked. > >(2) By all means the list can discuss Interfaith issues >but there is no need to do post mortem on what happened. >I feel a little sad that the efforts of bridge-building may have >suffered a little at this particular Christian college. > >Thanks for your support and understanding. > >jay > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 I agree with Sam and Rahul Regarding Religion bashing.Any one simply by bashing other religion proves that he or she has not understood Hinduism and by proclaiming himself or herself to be a Hindu only brings the Hinduism down. Then we donot need other people to denegrade hinduism, they are enough. Anup - " sam43_1999 " <sam43_1999 <Ramakrishna > Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:17 AM [sri Ramakrishna] Re: Marketing Jesus > I am in agreement with Rahul Ganjiwale. Gandhiji himself said: " Every > person, as every institution, and, above all, every religion was to > be judged not by the amount of atrocities or the wrong committed but > by the right conduct. " > > Sam > > > > > > In Ramakrishna, " Rahul Ganjiwale " <rahulganjiwale@h...> wrote: > > Namaskar, > > Every now and then some disturbing mail appears in the Ramakrishna > mailing > > list. However such mails are very important as they provide each > person an > > opportunity to analyze and improve upon their thoughts. > > It seems that some people take very much pride and delight in > Christian > > bashing which is no different in intensity than criticizing of > Hinduism by > > few people of other faith. Statements like > > " Hinduism did produce a living Christ like Gandhi but with > crucifixation > > the last good Christian vanished from this earth " is really > uncalled for in > > Ramakrishna mailing list , if am allowed to say so. > > Proclaiming " Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy " - Sure not! > When a > > respected list member tries to demoralize or humiliate followers of > other > > faith. Rather, one is only raising hatred by making statements like > the one > > above. The same hatred in his heart for the Christians is clearly > > demonstrated.... > > I did'nt intend to hurt anybody's feelings, i am sorry if i did but > i very > > much felt like expressing honestly what i observed... > > With regards and best wishes for all > > Rahul > > > > > > >Ramakrishna > > >Ramakrishna > > >Ramakrishna > > >[sri Ramakrishna] Digest Number 1039 > > >1 Feb 2002 22:33:53 -0000 > > > > > >Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > > >Vivekananda Centre London > > >http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > >- > ----- > > > > > >There are 5 messages in this issue. > > > > > >Topics in this digest: > > > > > > 1. VML-1/31/02 > > > ananta <sarada@g...> > > > 2. Life of Sri Maa - 15 > > > " Gokulmuthu N. " <gokulmuthu> > > > 3. Marketing Jesus > > > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS@m...> > > > 4. Re: Digest 1038 > > > " Brad Stephan " <brad@w...> > > > 5. Re: Re: Digest 1038 > > > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda@b...> > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > >Message: 1 > > > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:43:02 -0500 > > > ananta <sarada@g...> > > >VML-1/31/02 > > > > > >Then the bull said, " The East is a part of the Lord, so is the > West, > > >so is the South, so is the North. The four cardinal points are the > > >four parts of Brahman. Fire will also teach you something of > > >Brahman. " Fire was a great symbol in those days, and every student > > >had to procure fire and make offerings. So on the following day, > > >Satyakama started for his Guru's house, and when in the evening he > > >had performed his oblation, and worshipped at the fire, and was > > >sitting near it, he heard a voice come from the fire, " O > Satyakama. " > > > " Speak, Lord, " said Satyakama. (Perhaps you may remember a very > > >similar story in the Old Testament, how Samuel heard a mysterious > > >voice.) " O Satyakama, I am come to teach you a little of Brahman > This > > >earth is a portion of that Brahman. The sky and the heaven are > > >portions of It. The ocean is a part of that Brahman. " > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > >Message: 2 > > > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:07:27 +0530 > > > " Gokulmuthu N. " <gokulmuthu> > > >Life of Sri Maa - 15 > > > > > >Life of Sri Maa - 15 > > > > > > Sri Sarada Devi's happy days at Dakshineswar were over in > April > > >1885. The Master, afflicted by a sore throat which bled, had to > be shifted > > >to Shyampukur in Calcutta, for facility of treatment. Soon her > presence was > > >needed at Shyampukur, especially to cook his meals. The Master's > illness > > >turned from bad to worse and had to be shifted to a more spacious > place > > >at Cossipore in December 1885. Here too, Sarada Devi occupied a > small room > > >on the ground floor, and was busy with various chores. > > > > > > Here, at Cossipore, before her eyes, the Master laid the > foundation > > >for the future monastic order, training his young disciples, in > spite of > > >the > > >excruciating pain he was suffering from. One day, looking > earnestly at her, > > >he said: `Look here, won't you do anything? Must this [pointing to > his > > >body] > > >do everything?' But she protested, `What can I do? I am a mere > woman.' `No, > > >no,' Sri Ramakrishna insisted, `you will have to do many things.' > On > > >another > > >occasion he said to her: `Look at the people of Calcutta. They are > like > > >worms > > >squirming in darkness. You must bring light to them.' > > > > > > > > >- > ---------- > > >Extracts from the book : Sri Sarada Devi (A biography in pictures) > > > Advaita Ashrama, Calcutta (http://www.advaitaonline.com/). > > > > > > > > >-- > > >--------------- > > >Email: gokulmuthu > > >Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/ > > >Phone: +91 80 6689904, 6689938, 6780026-9 > > > +91 80 2384190-3 Ext. 227 > > > +91 44 8140104 > > >--------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > >Message: 3 > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:38:33 +1100 > > > " Sathye, Milind " <MilindS@m...> > > >Marketing Jesus > > > > > >No wonder Jay was considered as a threat in the second session. > > >When Hinduism is put down it could be due to many reasons: some of > these > > >are: > > >1. Since Christianity is treated as a product to be marketed one > way to > > >market the product is to denigrate the competitors product. SO > bash > > >Hinduism and proclaim Christ as the only way. I remember a > textile company > > >in India advertising 'Only Vimal' all else is second rate. This > is what > > >christians are doing. Our Masters were so great that they did not > allow > > >Hinduism to get reduced to such a level. Neither did Christ > himself. It > > >is > > >the 'marketing team' of Christ which is doing this. > > >2. Marketing team has a pecuniary interest. Salesmen get paid a > commision > > >on sales and so also on spreading christianity. > > >3.The Greatness of Hinduism raises jealousy. Other religions look > so > > >elementary in its presence! It is easier to throw filth on it than > to raise > > >ourselves to that level which is a hard task. > > >4. Show filth and find out if we can answer that. If we do, then > find some > > >other fault and continue the blamegame. > > >5. Gandhi righty said in reply to Katherin Mayo's Mother India. > Her book > > >is > > >like drain inspector's report. SO all who find only faults in > Hinduism > > >are > > >like drain inspectors. > > >6. Hinduism did produce a living Christ like Gandhi but with > crucifixation > > >the last good Christian vanished from this earth. > > >7. Many ministries have sprang up all over the world. Books are > published > > >and sold on Christ. Seminars are held (with entry fee) to learn > about > > >Christ. SO 'Christ' is a big industry. Would you like the > industry to > > >collapse like Enron by telling people about Hinduism which is free > and is > > >for everyone? > > > > > >Dr Milind Sathye > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > >Message: 4 > > > Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:27:05 -0800 > > > " Brad Stephan " <brad@w...> > > >Re: Digest 1038 > > > > > >Dear jay: > > > > > >I know you want to move past this topic, but my guess is Digest > 1039 will > > >generate lots of traffic on this important topic. Indeed, there's > probably > > >no topic more important right now than the challenges and > opportunities > > >relating to interfaith dialogue. I know there are a lot of > symposiums and > > >groups dedicated to interfaith dialogue in America right now (I > was a > > >participant in a Christian-Hindu Studies List but, unfortunately, > it was > > >shut down last summer by its University-based sponsors, because > they felt > > >it > > >was becoming too political and less academic.) > > > > > >The Ramakrishna List, I believe, is a fairly good forum for > interfaith > > >discussion, because its participants are primarily interested in > spiritual > > >growth, rather than email argumentation, and because of the fact > that > > >Vedanta is inclusive and non-judgemental in its theology - two > attibutes > > >greatly needed in our world today. (On a related question, I have > the sense > > >that not all " Hindu " are " Vedantists " - causing some to be just as > > >judgemental of other religions, as many Christians are. Someone > please > > >educate me.) > > > > > >Richard, sadly, I must agree with your remarks (as you used the > word " most " > > >rather than " all " when describing Christians). Interestingly, it > was from > > >the East (Paramahansa Yogananda) that I discovered the Truth of > the West > > >(i.e., Christ's teachings). Until the deeper, spiritual truths of > Christ's > > >teachings were pointed out to me, I was never attracted to Him > through > > > " Churchianity " (Yoganandaji, I believe, coined that term!). > > > > > >jay, if you don't mind baring your soul a little further, if could > relive > > >your presentation, would you change anything? > > > > > >God Bless, > > >Brad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > >Message: 5 > > > Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:12:39 -0000 > > > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda@b...> > > >Re: Re: Digest 1038 > > > > > > > > >- > > > " Brad Stephan " <brad@w...> > > > " The Ramakrishna List " <ramakrishna> > > >Friday, February 01, 2002 04:27 > > >[sri Ramakrishna] Re: Digest 1038 > > > > > > > > > > Dear jay: > > > > > > > > I know you want to move past this topic, but my guess is Digest > 1039 > > >will > > > > generate lots of traffic on this important topic. Indeed, > there's > > >probably > > > > no topic more important right now than the challenges and > opportunities > > > > relating to interfaith dialogue. > > > > > > > > jay, if you don't mind baring your soul a little further, if > could > > >relive > > > > your presentation, would you change anything? > > > > > > > > God Bless, > > > > Brad > > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > >Dear Brad > > > > > >I appreciate your dedication to the theme pursued by this list. > > > > > >(1) As I said in my last email I was responding to a special > > >situation... hence I was severe, nothing to glorify. > > >On second thoughts would I have done anything different? > > >No. I was measured and controlled and did not digress > > >from what was asked. > > > > > >(2) By all means the list can discuss Interfaith issues > > >but there is no need to do post mortem on what happened. > > >I feel a little sad that the efforts of bridge-building may have > > >suffered a little at this particular Christian college. > > > > > >Thanks for your support and understanding. > > > > > >jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > >___________________ > ___ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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