RE: [Sri Ramakrishna] Suffering

[Guest guest]

Good. Marathi Saint Tukaram (17th century) goes further and prays to God

'oh God, let sufferings come to us, because it is only then that we remember

you!!! "

Milind

 

 

Brad Stephan [brad]

Wednesday, 13 March 2002 3:44 AM

The Ramakrishna List

[sri Ramakrishna] Re: Suffering

 

 

Dear jay:

 

Whether the " cause " of suffering is Avidya-Maya or Karma, I believe Hinduism

does know its " purpose " :

 

" Iron must be heated again and again and hammered a hundred times before it

becomes good steel. Then only it becomes fit to be made into a sharp sword,

and can be bent in any way you like. So man must be heated several times in

the furnace of tribulations and hammered with the persecutions of the world

before he becomes pure and humble, and fit to enter the presence of God. "

 

-- Sri Ramakrishna (Saying 399)

 

Therefore, if our Creator had constructed us so we could not experience

physical and emotional suffering, would we ever have been motivated to seek

Him? Please comment.

 

God Bless,

Brad

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

" Brad Stephan " <brad

" The Ramakrishna List " <ramakrishna >

Tuesday, March 12, 2002 04:43

[sri Ramakrishna] Re: Suffering

 

 

> Dear jay:

>

> Whether the " cause " of suffering is Avidya-Maya or Karma, I believe

Hinduism does know its " purpose " :

>

> " Iron must be heated again and again and hammered a hundred times before

it becomes good steel. Then only it becomes fit to be made into a sharp

sword, and can be bent in any way you like. So man must be heated several

times in the furnace of tribulations and hammered with the persecutions of

the world before he becomes pure and humble, and fit to enter the presence

of God. "

>

> -- Sri Ramakrishna (Saying 399)

>

> Therefore, if our Creator had constructed us so we could not experience

physical and emotional suffering, would we ever have been motivated to seek

Him? Please comment.

>

> God Bless,

> Brad

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Dear Brad

 

This question of Suffering is a serious issue.

Swami Vivekananda would have asked something like :

If God is both all-merciful and all-compassionate why

then should a single living thing suffer for a single instance?

 

Question of suffering covers a greater field than individuals

undergoing tribulations so that they end up finding God.

Question remains why did God create such a painful process

to find him?

 

Let us widen the question and take the following two examples

of suffering.

 

(1) In the animal kingdom a stronger animal tears apart and eats a

weaker one for a very valid reason (for its own survival).

What wrong did the weak animal do? What 'test' can it possibly

be undergoing. And why does the larger animal be forced to use

violence to survive?

It is here that we face the 'problem of suffering' in a universal manner.

Mankind is a minor subset of the living world.... It is in the animal

kingdom we observe such severe heart wrenching suffering.

 

(2) Natural disasters that sometimes wipe out whole populations.

Are these people being 'tested' or being 'prepared'..?

 

We have to be very careful when we use Sri Ramakrishna's

quotes. They must be seen in context.

 

I am not very good at finding the exact quotes from the Gospel,

but the kind of quote I would use to respond to the Question of

Suffering from Sri Ramakrishna (that would incorporate both

the philosophic ideas of leela and maya) would be something like:

 

" It is beyond us to fathom the Mother's play. "

 

(a) Reference to Mother's play (Leela -- not trying to fulfil any objective.

All this is just play for the sake of the play.. and quite often a harsh

play too!).

(b) Use of " Beyond us " ... The greatest tool we use to make sense of

the world is our rational faculty.... Unfortunately this is a mere subset

of Maya so can only go so far (or not far enough) in explaining this

serious issue of suffering.

 

So coming back to the question of why such a creation where

there is so much suffering.... My interpretation is:

As long as we operate within the field of maya the pragmatic

response has to be:

'We do not know why there is suffering.

Ask the Divine Mother : )

 

jay