Conversations with Sai

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CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI : PART 22

 

H: Some say it is necessary to mortify the body to overcome the

tendencies?

SAI: Some spiritual aspirants do tapas and various austerities

that torture and weaken the body. This is wrong. If there is a

healthy body, this is the basis for healthy thoughts.

H: One's tendencies are there for a long time. Despite oneself,

they come up again and again.

SAI: There is the sun, the magnifying glass, and the paper. God is

the sun, far away. The heart is the glass. The desire and

tendencies, the paper. If the glass is just right, the paper is

burned at once. If the heart has strong love for God, and faith in

Him, the glass is automatically right.

 

THE SENSE OF TASTE

 

H: One very strong tendency is in the tongue, the problem of

taste, which gives rise to craving for more. How to overcome that?

SAI: The body is like a boil. Water is for cleansing the wound.

Food is the medicine. Clothing is the bandage. Considering the body

so, reduces the strength of taste. But what is taken in by seeing,

hearing, talking, is the more important food. Gross food for the

body is like digging a well. Whereas pure, subtle impressions taken

in by the other senses is like building a wall high into the

heavens. It is building the wall high that should have the major

emphasis.

 

THE BODY AS THE TEMPLE OF GOD

 

H: Body is like a boil. But Swami often uses the phrase, `the body

is the temple of God'.

SAI: In the spiritual world there is a different arithmetic. 3-

1==1. There is you, the mirror, and the image. Remove the mirror,

and there is only one left. Life is the mirror, body is the

reflection. Be attached to God, and there is only One, God. The body

is the temple of God.

The life of the person is the priest. The five senses are the

vessels used in the religious ceremony. Atma is God, the idol of

God. One cannot say that the body is the temple of God unless it is.

Every act, thought, and word should be worship in the temple. The

five senses should constantly be cleansed and polished, so that the

worship is reverently offered to God. One goes to the office and

says to himself that every act of the day should be the worship of

God, and it will be so.

H: Swami says that when the senses leave their place and mix with

worldly objects pain and pleasure are produced. What is the proper

place of the senses?

SAI: It is all the play of desire. Desire for worldly objects

produces pleasure and pain, whereas desire for God confers bliss and

does not produce pain.

 

THE RIGHT ex-pression OF DESIRE

 

H: But Swami, most of our actions arise from worldly desires. We

see, hear, think, feel, smell. Then there is some desire and that

leads to action.

SAI: God works through you as desire.

H: Swami! Does God prompt even the bad desire?

SAI: There is the strong thrust of the life force, the desire to

live. If it goes into action in a favourable field, it becomes love;

otherwise, it remains as desire. If desire is expressed in a

favourable field, it is expressed as love. Then knowledge and bliss

arise.

The force, the strength, the energy, and the motivation in desire

is God. Whether the desire is good or bad is related to time, place,

and person. In early years, a desire for worldly achievement might

be good. In later years, the same desire might be bad. Fruit, good

one day may be rotten several days later. One side of an apple may

become good, the other side rotten. Discrimination says eat the good

side and discard the bad.

There is another force in you through which God works, and that is

discrimination. That force must be used to put aside wrong action.

The power of discrimination knows what is right and what is wrong.

The wrong desire is God overshadowed by Maya. Whereas discrimination

is God less overshadowed by Maya.

H: Swami! This really explains the whole problem of good and evil?

SAI: Yes. The story of Valmiki is an illustration. He was a

ruthless killer and robber without any doubt about his actions. He,

at one time, listened to the five sages and started repeating 'Ram'.

The same strength and force that made him a terrible criminal was

turned to Godly desire and action, and he gained God-realization.

Valmiki started to repeat `Rama' and, gaining speed `Rama' became

jumbled up with 'Ma' and 'Mara'. In this he lost body sense and

transcended the senses. Losing body sense should be like that,

natural and not forced.

H: Swami says that body, mind, intelligence do not work for

anybody, that they do their own work. What does that mean?

SAI: What is meant is, 'unfortunately, that is the case'. They are

doing their own work, but the work should be co-ordinated for the

benefit of the igher. For example, the eyes see. Seeing is their

work. But unless they see for somebody there is no point in their

work. The mind should be seeing through the eyes. The intelligence

should be directing and controlling the mind, for that is the

intelligence's own work.

H: Then, for whom should the entire mechanism be

functioning?

SAI: For the Atma. A small example: the earth turns on its own

axis, but at the same time it is revolving around the sun. The

various faculties of man should do their own work, but the Atma is

the centre of their universe.

H: There seems to be something wrong. The Atma is not doing its

work of directing the faculties. How can one bring the faculties

under the control of the Atma?

 

THE MEANING OF SURRENDER

 

SAI: When one realizes that the Atma is the reality, everything

will function very smoothly. It is a question of surrendering all to

the Atma.

H: But Swami has said that one cannot surrender that which he

really does not own and of which he is not in control.

SAI: It is not a question of surrendering or giving to someone

else. One surrenders to himself. Recognition that the Atma is

oneself is surrender. Surrender really means the realization that

all is God, that there is nobody who surrenders, that there is

nothing to be surrendered, nor is there anyone to accept a

surrender. All is God. There is only God.

H: 'Surrender' is not really a very good word. It quite fails to

convey what is meant.

SAI: 'Surrender' is worldly language. To correctly

describe this, the language of the divine is needed. There is no

adequate word in the English language, therefore the use

of 'surrender' goes on.

 

CONTEMPLATION ON THE FORM OF GOD

 

H: When Swami says, 'The form of the Lord', what does He mean?

That is, when I think of the Lord, the image of Baba comes to mind

and that is only natural. But beyond that, what?

SAI: If you continue to visualize the Form when you are engaged in

activity, you will make mistakes. For instance, if you try to

visualize the Lord when you are working in the office, you make

mistakes. So, when engaged in action, 'Visualizing the Lord' means

doing the work in God's Name, and not doing the work to gain the

fruit of the work.

H: Well, then about the Name, repeating the Name?

SAI: When God comes taking a human form, it is very difficult to

see Him as the Lord. One sees that body, then one's own body, and

one cannot but relate the two and put that body at the same level as

oneself. But if the Lord came in all His majesty, people would be

afraid and would have no opportunity to know and love the Lord.

For example, people worship an image of a snake in a temple,

hoping that the worship will bring the birth of a child. But if the

snake became alive and wriggled across the floor towards them, they

would take to their heels. People could not stand the Lord in super-

human form. It is only when the Lord comes in a human body that

people are able to approach Him and learn to love Him and know Him

even a little bit. But one should not make the mistake of thinking

that is all there is to the Lord.

For instance, the aeroplane flying high in the sky descends to the

airport. But one should not make the mistake of thinking that the

plane is a ground machine because they see it on the ground. Once it

has taken on its load of passengers, it again zooms up high into the

sky. In like fashion, although the Lord has made a landing here on

earth so to speak, He is not limited by His human form

 

REPETITION OF THE NAME OF GOD

 

H: May Swami please tell us more about saying the Name of God?

SAI: Here is a small example. A man had to pass through 20 miles

of forest at night, and he had only a small lantern that lit about a

three foot circle. He put down the lantern and started to cry, for

he could see for only three feet. Some travellers came along and

asked the reason for his sorrow. They exclaimed, 'But sir, if you

walk, carrying the lamp with you, if you can see only two feet ahead

of you it is enough, and you could travel in that way through a

hundred miles of dark forest without trouble. But if you leave the

lantern where it is, you cannot move at all in this dark forest.'

In the same way, the Name of the Lord may be written in the book you

are looking at, but you may find your way only by using the Name.

The Name should be woven into the breath so that you are calling on

Him all day long. Sohum - 'He am I'. 'He' with the in-breath, 'I'

with the out-breath. Or Sai Ram. Or the name of your choice, said

with the movement of the breath. Breath is form, thus the name and

the form go together.

Breath is life. Life is God. Breath is God. The name of

God and the form of God. Breathe God. See God. Eat God. Love God.

The Name of God will illumine every step of your life and take you

to Him. The Name must be said with love for God is love. If the

breath is said with love, then life is love. There is no shakti

stronger than love. If it is said with love, the Name of God - any

name of God Ram, Sai Ram, Krishna , Jesus, Sohum - that small name

will open up and illuminate the whole of life. For the one who

desires to realize God, only the Name is needed. The ocean is vast,

but a huge steamship is not needed to go on the ocean. Just a small

tire will take one on the ocean.

H: In respect to repetition of the Name of the Lord, what is the

relationship between Sai Baba, Sai Ram, Sohum? And which form is to

be visualized for each?

SAI: Sai Baba is the physical form. Sai Baba also means Divine

Father and Mother. The syllable 'Sa' means divine. The syllable 'ai'

means mother. Baba is the word for father. 'Sai Baba', therefore,

means Divine Mother and Father. Sai Ram represents the same form as

Sai Baba. Sohum does not have a form. It means, 'I am God'.

Just as a person has several names but they refer to the same

body. The repetition of name with form is at the beginning. Later on

one worships the omnipresent transcendent divine. If one sees God as

the essence of every person he meets, it is also appropriate to love

Sai Ram constantly in the mind, because then the diverse forms merge

into the Sai Ram form.

 

THE CORRECT WAY TO CHANT 'OM'

 

H: What is the correct way to chant 'OM'?

 

SAI: The sound of 'OM' is 'AUM'. 'A' starts softly from the

throat. It is the earth. `U' comes from the mouth and the sound

rises in volume. 'M' is sounded with the lips, with decreasing

volume. Like a plane, heard distantly, increasing in sound as it

approaches arid fading with distance. 'A' is the world. U is

heaven. 'M' is divine, beyond all the senses.

H: Suppose one fails to achieve this perfect pronunciation?

SAI: The perfect OM is not too important if there is love. Love is

the bond of devotion between mother and child, and if the child

cries, mother does not worry if the cry is discordant. She rushes to

the child and cares for him.

The Divine Mother is in every place. Swami is here, but the divine

Mother is everywhere. So, everybody has a chance. As soon as a

person starts to yearn for God, the Divine Mother is there to

respond with grace. In all these matters, love is vital. Devotion to

God means love of God.

The real OM is spontaneous; it enters through the two nostrils, up

to forehead center and out through the ears to the world. Like the

broadcast from a radio tower.

H: Is not OM a dangerous sound to use? I have heard that the OM

sound is continuous, and continuously sustains the universe. Whereas

man breaks the continuity of his saying 'OM' and so his life is

likewise broken. I have heard of a number of such instances, and it

is said that OM is suitable only for sannyasis who have already

broken their worldly ties.

SAI: What is a sannyasi? There are three types. First is 'cloth

sannyasi' who pretends renunciation by wearing an ochre robe. There

are thousands of such in India. Next is the 'sense sannyasi' who

gains control of his senses. These persons should never leave the

world for solitude. They should remain in life where they may watch

their reactions and know if their sense control is genuine. Then

there is he who has surrendered to the Lord, dedicating the fruit of

every action to Him. In this sannyasi, ego has no place. His heart

is pure. His senses become calm and are not affected by the

opposites. If the heart is pure, then the continuity of the 'OM'

sound will not be broken. And, if something that seems bad does

arise, then it is unreal, for only OM is real.

 

`SOHUM'

 

H: Swami says that people make a mistake by not saying 'Sohum'

with every breath. How does one do it?

SAI: 'Saa' is He. 'Hum' is I. Yogi 'X' whom you mentioned, teaches

to say, 'Saa, Saa' 24 hours each day. Since 'Hum' is not said,

the 'I', the personality, is supposed to subside. It is extremely

difficult to do it 24 hours a day, and in sleep it is almost

impossible. Yogi 'X' says he does it, but he does not. What is the

use of struggling with a very difficult practice like that, when

there is an easier, more effective may?

Well, Swami, putting Yogi 'X' aside. I want to do as Baba says,

and say 'Sohum' with every breath. What is the technique? Is it said

with each breath?

SAI: The breath is always saying 'Sohum'. The practice is to

say 'So' with every in-breath, and 'Hum' with the outbreath. Say it

in thought. It is intended to keep the mind fixed and quiet. After a

while it becomes automatic. During the day say 'Sohum'. At night,

during sleep, the sound naturally changes to OM.

H: Should one think, 'He am I'?

SAI: No. The sound is 'Sohum'. It is not an Indian word or an

American word. It is the sound of what the breath is saying. Of

course, it is all right to appreciate the meaning of the sound.

H: Swami says that 'Sohum' is the natural sound of breath.

Listening to my breath, it does not seem to me that I hear the sound

of breath in that way.

SAI: The sound through the nose and mouth are mixed with mind or

idea, and may be heard in various ways. The fact is that when the

mind is without movement and the breath is perfectly spontaneous and

natural, the sound of that breath (through the nostrils) is 'Sohum'.

Breath through the mouth goes into the stomach.

H: Krishna told Arjuna to sound OM in the mind.

SAI: OM is in every place, mind, tongue, heart etc. First sound OM

on the tongue and then in the mind. The sounding of OM 21 times is

important; five outer senses, five inner senses, five lives (the

five elements), five sheaths (the kosas), and the Jiva.

 

Sharing with Sai Love)

Ram.Chugani

Kobe, Japan

rgcjp