Swami's Reply regarding Paapa and Punyam

[Guest guest]

Dear Madan,

 

Sai Ram. For students of Advaita, the saying is clear: Brahma

Satyam, Jagat Midhya. Brahma, the Creator (also called Para Brahma

to differentiate from the Brahma who has a limited life span) is the

truth, the world is an illusion. And mind is but a collection of

memories from this birth and previous births. Mind is also the

product of ego and ego comes from the false feeling of separation

and drawing limits.

 

For example, some body thinks he is so and so, he is a man, he is

the son of so and so, brother of so and so, husband of so and so,

father of so and so and bitter enemy of so and so and so on. All

these attributes are temporary and in the previous birth he was

something else, probably a she! And in the next birth, he may be

something else again, may be an insect! So, what is temporary

cannot be true or reality. What is permanent is only the soul, which

is not different from ParaBrahma, who is without attributes or Who

has all the attributes.

 

The analogy of the elephant and the 4 blind men is appropriate here.

Since they could not see the whole elephant, they touched different

parts of the elephant and came up with their own limited perceptions

of what an elephant is. Each of that description is only partially

true and unless some one is able to integrate the parts into a

proper unified whole, the description remains incomplete and in some

cases, meaningless. True Yoga is the integration of the jig saw

puzzle piece, the union of the Jivatma with Paramatma, the falling

of the water drop into the ocean. The dissolution of the boundaries,

limits, attributes etc. Sai Ram.

 

Without the third eye of Jnana (called Vidya, called Atma Jnana,

called Brahma Jnana), one cannot understand and appreciate the

origin of the universe, the nature of the universe and so on.

 

Since the created universe is classified as an illusion (like a

child's play with dolls), the individual ego, and its creation, mind

(limited perceptions) is also an illusion. And Punya, Paapa are just

conepts of mind, albeit very important concepts of mind for proper

functioning of society.

 

An analogy will give you an example. You are dreaming and in the

dream, you go through so many experiences. When you wake up, you

realise that the whole thing was a dream. do you attach too much

importance to the events of the dream? Similarly, you watch a drama

or a movie or a TV play where lot of things happen. Momentarily you

get absorbed and laugh, cry, feel angry, feel wounded and thus go

through the entire gamut of emotions that the director is trying to

present. At the end of the show, you are all praise to the director,

the actors and all other supporting people who made it a success. Do

you go on brooding over the evil events shown there?

 

OK. One last question. You are the actor in the drama, the movie,

the TV serial. Before going on to the stage or in front of the

camera, you are all dressed up into that particular role but you are

very clear that you are not Rama, Krishna, Ravana or whatever

character that you are playing, hero, villain, vamp. Once the

director says " Action! " you get into the role and go through your

lines, which may involve preaching, abusing, or any thing else. Your

actions may be noble or most horrible. The better actor you are, the

more realistic it looks. And when the director shouts " Cut " , what

happens? You become your normal self. The actor has gone! The

actions have gone! And when the drama is presented before the

audience, the audience goes along, shouts, screams, laughs, abuses

the evil character and so on. Once curtain falls, the audience claps

and goes home. Sai Ram.

 

Similarly the drama of the universe is being played and we all are

players under the direction of the director (Jagannataka

Sutradhari). As long as we are dreaming, as long as we are acting,

we think it is all real. When we wake up, when the curtain falls, we

realise that it was just a play.

 

The concepts of Advaita are not understood easily and it requires

God's grace, to come into contact with a Sadguru and then the Guru's

grace will make us realise that we are not what we are thinking we

are (clouded vision becomes clear). Sai Sadguru (and all other forms

of the same Sadguru, who is One) will help us cross this ocean of

samsara and reach our destination safely, and that is realisation of

our true nature.

 

Please listen to or read the Nirvana Shatkam of Sri Adi Sankara. It

starts

 

Mano Buddhyahamkaara chittani naaham

 

and declares " aham " (I) to be

 

Chidaananda roopa sivoham sivoham.

 

How to get out of the illusions? Sri Bhaja Govinda Stotram has the

answer:

 

Satsangatve nissangatvam, nissangatve nirmohatvam, nirmohatve

nischala tatvam, nischala tatve jeevan muktih, Bhaja Govindam...

 

Sai Ram.

 

Swamy

 

 

Madan Vemula <madanvemula wrote:

Dear Sir,

 

Could you please elaborate on this " Paapa and Punya is an illusion

of mind " .and also it would be nice if you could explain how to get

out this illusions either by meditation or by good deeds or meeting

good people around .

 

Thank you,

Madan Vemula

Swarna Venkateswara Swamy <truthseeker123x

[Guest guest]

Dear Madan,

 

Sai Ram. For students of Advaita, the saying is clear: Brahma

Satyam, Jagat Midhya. Brahma, the Creator (also called Para Brahma

to differentiate from the Brahma who has a limited life span) is the

truth, the world is an illusion. And mind is but a collection of

memories from this birth and previous births. Mind is also the

product of ego and ego comes from the false feeling of separation

and drawing limits.

 

For example, some body thinks he is so and so, he is a man, he is

the son of so and so, brother of so and so, husband of so and so,

father of so and so and bitter enemy of so and so and so on. All

these attributes are temporary and in the previous birth he was

something else, probably a she! And in the next birth, he may be

something else again, may be an insect! So, what is temporary

cannot be true or reality. What is permanent is only the soul, which

is not different from ParaBrahma, who is without attributes or Who

has all the attributes.

 

The analogy of the elephant and the 4 blind men is appropriate here.

Since they could not see the whole elephant, they touched different

parts of the elephant and came up with their own limited perceptions

of what an elephant is. Each of that description is only partially

true and unless some one is able to integrate the parts into a

proper unified whole, the description remains incomplete and in some

cases, meaningless. True Yoga is the integration of the jig saw

puzzle piece, the union of the Jivatma with Paramatma, the falling

of the water drop into the ocean. The dissolution of the boundaries,

limits, attributes etc. Sai Ram.

 

Without the third eye of Jnana (called Vidya, called Atma Jnana,

called Brahma Jnana), one cannot understand and appreciate the

origin of the universe, the nature of the universe and so on.

 

Since the created universe is classified as an illusion (like a

child's play with dolls), the individual ego, and its creation, mind

(limited perceptions) is also an illusion. And Punya, Paapa are just

conepts of mind, albeit very important concepts of mind for proper

functioning of society.

 

An analogy will give you an example. You are dreaming and in the

dream, you go through so many experiences. When you wake up, you

realise that the whole thing was a dream. do you attach too much

importance to the events of the dream? Similarly, you watch a drama

or a movie or a TV play where lot of things happen. Momentarily you

get absorbed and laugh, cry, feel angry, feel wounded and thus go

through the entire gamut of emotions that the director is trying to

present. At the end of the show, you are all praise to the director,

the actors and all other supporting people who made it a success. Do

you go on brooding over the evil events shown there?

 

OK. One last question. You are the actor in the drama, the movie,

the TV serial. Before going on to the stage or in front of the

camera, you are all dressed up into that particular role but you are

very clear that you are not Rama, Krishna, Ravana or whatever

character that you are playing, hero, villain, vamp. Once the

director says " Action! " you get into the role and go through your

lines, which may involve preaching, abusing, or any thing else. Your

actions may be noble or most horrible. The better actor you are, the

more realistic it looks. And when the director shouts " Cut " , what

happens? You become your normal self. The actor has gone! The

actions have gone! And when the drama is presented before the

audience, the audience goes along, shouts, screams, laughs, abuses

the evil character and so on. Once curtain falls, the audience claps

and goes home. Sai Ram.

 

Similarly the drama of the universe is being played and we all are

players under the direction of the director (Jagannataka

Sutradhari). As long as we are dreaming, as long as we are acting,

we think it is all real. When we wake up, when the curtain falls, we

realise that it was just a play.

 

The concepts of Advaita are not understood easily and it requires

God's grace, to come into contact with a Sadguru and then the Guru's

grace will make us realise that we are not what we are thinking we

are (clouded vision becomes clear). Sai Sadguru (and all other forms

of the same Sadguru, who is One) will help us cross this ocean of

samsara and reach our destination safely, and that is realisation of

our true nature.

 

Please listen to or read the Nirvana Shatkam of Sri Adi Sankara. It

starts

 

Mano Buddhyahamkaara chittani naaham

 

and declares " aham " (I) to be

 

Chidaananda roopa sivoham sivoham.

 

How to get out of the illusions? Sri Bhaja Govinda Stotram has the

answer:

 

Satsangatve nissangatvam, nissangatve nirmohatvam, nirmohatve

nischala tatvam, nischala tatve jeevan muktih, Bhaja Govindam...

 

Sai Ram.

 

Swamy

 

 

Madan Vemula <madanvemula wrote:

Dear Sir,

 

Could you please elaborate on this " Paapa and Punya is an illusion

of mind " .and also it would be nice if you could explain how to get

out this illusions either by meditation or by good deeds or meeting

good people around .

 

Thank you,

Madan Vemula

Swarna Venkateswara Swamy <truthseeker123x

[Guest guest]

Dear Sarma garu and dear Raghav,

 

Sai Ram. While I am replying to Sri Sarma's query, I am marking a

copy to you (Raghav) since the subject is of interest to all seekers

and all of us are troubled at one tme or another by the feelings of

guilt, remorse and of course the fear of retribution from the

inexhorable laws of karma. So, it may be of interest to all seekers.

What I am writing below is what I understood by the grace of Sadguru

Sai, Who is one with all Sadgurus (Datta, Sri Ramana Maharshi and

Shankara just to name a few). Sai Ram.

 

Sarma garu. What you asked is a very important question. The laws of

karma are in fact quite clear. Do a good act and reap good results.

Do a bad act and reap bad results. Reap as you sow. If you plant a

neem seed (whether deliberately or by accident), what will you get?

A neem tree, and definitely not a mango tree! And can you get

mangoes from a neem tree? No. This is karma and is the karmic law of

action and reaction. Sai Ram.

 

What you were told by your Sadgurus and what you read is therefore

absolutely correct. If we do Sastrasammata karma (what is accepted

as good by Vedas and other Sastras), we get good results. If we do

Sastravirudhha karma, we get correspondingly negative results.

 

Let us discuss stealing. From a purely dwaitic angle, stealing is

prohibited by Sastra and so if a person is caught stealing, he needs

to be and will be pubished. Clear. No problem.

 

In visishtadvaita, suppose the thief seeks the protection of God

(Sri Hari) after realising his mistake. The king or judge may let

him off with a mild punishment or a warning, inspired by Sri Hari

within. So, the same act of stealing gets different results.

 

In advaita (if the thief is a pure advaitin), the body which did the

stealing, the object stolen, the act of stealing, the king / judge

who is going to give the quantum of punishment and the guards who

carry out the punishment and the act of punishment - everything is

pervaded by Brahman and is just a drama. So, the punishment is there

but the advaitic thief is not bothered since he doesn't identify

himself with his body. That is what Nirvana Shatkam proclaims isn't

it? Mano Buddhyahamkara Chittani naaham...I am not the mind,

intellect, chitta (what is the exact meaning - thoughts?) and ego

(the sense of I). I am Siva. My consciousness is filled with bliss.

And I am the truth

 

So, if the thief is actually an advaitin, he doesn't identify

himself with his body and its suffering. Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri

Ramakrsihna Paramahamsa and Sri Sai Baba of Shirdi, all of them did

not have any body consciousness and so did not interfere with their

body's karma. Sai Ram.

 

There is a story about Sri Sankara. He was going along with His

disciples (not all of them were advanced) and He wanted to teach

them some spiritual lessons. So, on the way, He stopped at a toddy

tapper's place and asked for toddy. The toddy tapper was aghast but

could not refuse Him. So he offered and Sri Sankara drank toddy. The

disciples also drank toddy since they felt that it was OK to follow

the Guru.

 

After a while, Sri Sankara stopped at a metal smith who was tinning

some utenils. He asked and drank some molten lead! Now the disciples

were in trouble. They knew that they had to follow the Guru but they

couldn't! Sri Sankara looked at them and smiled! They got the

message!

 

So, Sarma ji, advaita is not an easy path to follow. If one decides

to follow advaita, one must accept that all sensory inputs, whether

pleasant or not are illusions. So, normal happiness and unhappiness,

which depends on senses, is also illusory. Sai Ram.

 

Now let us consider the same situation from Visishtadvaita point. In

visishtadvaita, before one takes bharanyasam (prapatti) one is

needed to suffer the results of one's actions. But after saranagati

(prapatti) to the Lord through Sri Acharya (one's Guru), the person

is no longer free, but is the property of the Lord! So, let anything

happen, the person need not bother. After all the body, mind and ego

everything has been offered by the individual soul to the Lord (I

made a mistake in thinking that this body etc. is mine, I now

realise that this is yours and so I am offering and surrendering to

you all that is yours, I am now your daasa, servant - this is the

essence of surrender. After surrender, the one thought of the person

should be let thy will be done! And let the Lord decide what to do

with the body or mind.

 

So in such a case also, the sinner has nothing to fear or do, since

it is the Lord who is now the owner of the property. Let him take

care of it or destroy it. Your soul is safe now with Him.

 

In dwaita, you do prayaschitta and go through the specified rituals

to free yourself of the sin. The prayaschitta may be quite severe

(For example, the hands of the thief may be cut off). So be it.

 

So, dear Sarma garu, in any case, the individual ego (persona) has

no further freedom about the results of the karma. The Lord decides

about the results. And some other punya that the person has done

earlier may come to his rescue.

 

The interpretations differ from the plane of perception. One should

not mix up the different planes to suit one's convenience (this is

the most normal mistake, which I too was guilty of earlier). Now I

leave the karma and all karmic results to my destiny and to my

Sadguru.

 

I recommend that we correspond directly and finally submit the whole

thing as a file to Raghav for possible uploading.

 

Did you read Sri Guru Charitra, Sri Guru Gita and Sri Sai

Satcharitra? If yes, you will find most of the answers. IF you

haven't read them. I request u to pl. do so. Sai Ram.

 

In your seva,

 

Swamy