CONVERSATION WITH SAI - PART 8

[Guest guest]

Hislop: Swami says that " All is done by the Lord and not by you " .

But, the world over, there is the concept that man is responsible for

his own actions.

 

SAI: You are God. As long as you are being human, there may be such

thoughts.

 

H: As long as you are being human, does that imply the human state is

an act of one's will?

 

SAI: Not an act of will. Just a matter of being confused. It is a

delusion. You come here with doubts. Swami knows that, so he gives

you a chance to ask. If a Jnani comes, a man with direct experience

of the divine, Swami does not ask him what his doubts are. The fact

that you have questions is evidence that you are on the worldly

level. Baba's teaching will vary according to the level of the

person.

 

A teacher in a school may at the same time be a renowned Vedic

scholar, but when teaching a child to read, he can only say, " This

letter is 'A' this letter is T " and so on. Mother may feed one child

at the breast, give soft food to another, tell the cook to serve food

to another, and tell the eldest to serve himself. But though her

treatment of each child may be different, her love is equal for all.

There are four different stages in which man finds himself, and God

gives different but appropriate help to each: first are those persons

who are in distress; second are those desiring prosperity; third are

those engaged in enquiry as to what is truth; and fourth are the

wise.

At present in you, there is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious.

For this reason there is confusion and doubt. In the unconscious

state there are no impressions. In the super-conscious state there is

no doubt, there is decision; in this state there is no body and no

mind, although there may be visions. There is still another state

beyond the super-conscious. This is Divine consciousness where God

alone is. In the super-conscious state there is still a very slight

tinge of duality, of giver and receiver. In the ordinary state there

are the three: giver, gift and receiver. In divine consciousness

there is the giver only.

Really, all other than the One is false. Even Sadhana. Here a doubt

may arise: how can Sadhana, something false, result in something

other than false? It is like this: dreaming is unreal, but the dream

may become so strong, so terrifying, that because of the dream one

awakens. It is likewise with Sadhana. For Sadhana to become so strong

that from it one awakens to reality, the Sadhana must touch the super-

conscious level where both body and mind are transcended. It is from

the deep transcendent state that Truth blazes forth.

 

H: One hears about various paths to Self-realization. What does this

mean?

 

SAI: There are three paths. There is that of devotion; the Guru

guides and all is left to the Guru to perform. Then, there is the

perception that God is Omnipresent; the future comes up to the

present and the past falls away from the present. God is omnipresent;

so the present is God; this is knowledge. Then there is surrender to

God. But surrender does not mean just doing all actions in His Name.

Surrender to God is when the entire Universe is known as His body.

Surrender is when doer, deed and object are all God. It cannot be

forced. It comes naturally. Faith is the foundation; surrender is the

peak.

 

H: Of the many 'roads' to self-realization, what is the short

cut?

 

SAI: The short cut is this way: the Name of God is the seed; love is

the water by which the crop grows; discipline is the fence which

protects the growing crop; the field in which the crop is grown is

the spiritual heart; the crop when it comes to harvest, is Bliss.

 

H: Why should one attempt to gain Self-realization when one is always

Self-realized?

 

SAI: As of now, there is a mixture in the mind of sensory

identification. The mind is not fully one-pointed.

 

H: Swami, time is needed for the plane to arrive in India, but why is

time needed for Self-realization? Is not an immediate awakening

possible, entirely apart from time?

 

SAI: Immediate awakening apart from time? Yes, it is possible. If

faith is full and perfect, then Grace comes fully at that very

moment, just as the sound and the bullet occur at the same moment.

 

H: But, Swami, one believes that he does have full faith. Therefore,

there must be self-deception?

 

SAI: As long as one thinks he has faith, he does not. Just as when

one knows that he is meditating, he is not meditating. Only when

meditation is automatic, all day long, there is meditation. Full

faith is reached by Sadhana, just as Bombay is reached by approaching

it.

 

H: Sadhana, as it is described, seems wrong, because it is a

conscious effort aimed at getting a reward. It seems to me that

Sadhana is real only when it is spontaneous. That is, when one

naturally loves God, then he cannot help but love God, and he cannot

help but make inquiry.

 

SAI: It is as you say, but you have not experienced that spontaneous

love of God. It is still just an idea. You have a conviction that

love of God exists naturally in you. That conviction is the result of

many lives of spiritual practice.

 

A Visitor: What is the correct Sadhana for retired people?

 

SAI: Meditation morning and evening. Spend days in good work.

 

A Visitor: What is the Sadhana appropriate to ladies?

 

SAI: Ladies have the duty of house, children and husband. They are

very busy. Meditation morning and evening can be done. During the

day, all work that previously was done for others should now be done

as worship of God. That is the best Sadhana for ladies.

 

(To be continued…….)

 

Ram Chugani

Kobe, Japan

rgcjp