Conversation with Sai

[Guest guest]

SAI: …….When you have deep love for God, then concentration on Him

will come automatically.

 

H: But that is the point, there is the whole point.

 

SAI: In all these experiences we must hold to the Truth, to life. You

love life. We have all these experiences because of life. So we are

clinging on to that sort of pillar which is life; for we know that

without life we don't have experiences. Life gives so many things

externally but life does not change; life is the same. That life is

Truth and that is God. The unchangeable is Truth.

 

H: Since we are that Truth, we would like to have love in our hearts

and flow naturally with life and not according to our arbitrary

wishes. Yet we don't. Swami says we do not, because we lack the

intensity. So we say to ourselves, " Well I must get that intensity. "

So we strive towards that goal, and striving towards that goal makes

the thing stronger – that prevents the desired intensity.

 

Translator: I don't follow that.

 

H: We are selfish and greedy naturally. If we substitute a spiritual

goal for a physical goal, then we are still engaged in the same

greed. One has just changed the physical greed to a spiritual greed.

 

A further point. If one does not love, as indeed one does not, then

one says, " I must get love " . Then love is over there and oneself is

here.

 

SAI: Who are you? Who are you?

 

H: I am the accumulation of all my past, all my ideas.

 

SAI: Who is that `my'? Who is that `my'? Who is claiming? Between the

love and yourself there is this claim. What is love and who are you?

 

H: I am that which I am, the accumulation of all these…

 

H's Wife: The accumulation is the idea that you have, but according

to Swami you [Atma] and the love are the same thing. You [ego] are

the one who puts the separation.

 

H: Yes, I am the one who puts the separation between us. I am the

ego.

 

SAI: Ego is untruth.

 

H: Ego is untruth, then I…

 

SAI: But you are not ego. You are Truth. Ego is not Truth. Any amount

of arguments and discussions like this are just words. You will not

get this without spiritual practice, without Sadhana. An example:

someone asks us what sugar is. We say it is brownish and sort of

sandy, because we know sugar. But the sweetness has no form. You can

describe sugar like this, but you cannot picture the taste, because

the taste has no form.

 

Even pertaining to the world there are so many things we do not know,

and we don't imagine or worry about. If we only feel intensely for

God instead of much discussion and reading books. We must get into

the field and try it out. Even if someone writes a book it is his

spiritual experience.

 

You love your wife and she loves you. But if she is hungry you cannot

eat for her. And if you are hungry she cannot eat for you despite the

fact that you love each other dearly. Spiritual hunger is like that.

Each man must seek and appease that hunger according to his faith.

Even though

 

Swami tries to explain, you do not grasp it. It is only through

experience that you can come to it.

 

When you start to learn to drive, you must have an open space for

practice; but once you learn, then you can go confidently even on a

narrow road. It is just like in a school. Gradually you go and you

understand. If big words are used when the child is still learning

ABC then the child does not understand.

 

In the beginning, we do not understand the things of the world, and

do not even understand ourselves; so how can you understand that

which is beyond you? So, first you try to understand yourself by

doing spiritual practice, by doing Sadhana. First `I' next `you'. `I'

plus `you' equals `we'. Then `we'. Then `we' plus `He'. Then

only `He'.

 

H: No, I don't understand that.

 

SAI: First `I' then `you'. First `I' that is life. Next `you' that is

the world. `I' plus `you' is `we'. `We' plus `He' is God. Only `He'.

There is love, the person who loves and the person you love. And when

all get together it is bliss.

 

You see there are three blades in the fan. The three Gunas are

represented by the three blades. Only when the blades circulate

together in harmony do you get the air. When they move in the same

direction then they bring the cool air. The three Gunas within us are

going in different directions. When you turn them in the same

direction all going round together then you will have one-pointedness

and you will be enabled to know.

 

A Visitor: Could it be like this? It is the experience of a number of

people including myself that gradually one does Sadhana, but then

comes such an experience that would have taken an immense time to

gain, but through your Grace one has the sudden experience.

 

SAI: Another example: in a house, each one does a particular job and

divides the work. In the evening when the family has finished the

work nobody says, " Father, I did such and such a work and you must

pay me. " It is one house. So you don't ask for payment you just do

the work. But when someone from outside comes you fix up the rate and

pay accordingly. When you pay them that shows that they are

outsiders. But when they become your own you don't have to pay them.

They work with interest and no pay is expected. Similarly with God.

When you think God is the nearest and dearest to you, like one

family, you don't ask for pay. The one who surrenders like that, he

is My own, he does not have to look for payment. But the one who

says, " I have done so much Sadhana " and barters with God and says, " I

have done so much Sadhana and you give me such and such a reward " ,

then that is the difference; he is the outsider.

 

The child who is so small does not ask the mother " I want milk. I

want to be changed " and so on, but the mother looks after every need

of the child without its asking. When you have surrendered yourself

completely to God and become God's child, you don't have to tell God

what you want. He will give even more than you have asked for. But it

is only by love that He is your dearest. Do Sadhana and there is a

closeness to God; then you don't have to tell Him that you want this

or that. Because you are like a little child, He will come and give

you more than even what you ask for. Ego is what prevents us from

becoming close to God. It is that ego, `I' have to do this, `I' have

to get all this. You must see that 'I' is only the instrument of the

Lord. Like the fan is an instrument, you are an instrument of the

Lord. Now is the fan making the fan rotate or is the current making

the fan rotate?

 

H: The current is making the fan rotate.

 

SAI: The current is God; so you are only the instrument. Even the

fact that we think that our eyes see things and that our ears hear

things is not correct. My eyes are here but the mind is in Bangalore

thinking of this or that. My eyes are seeing, but my mind is

somewhere else. Mind is important. Body is like a torch; eye is like

the bulb; mind is the battery cell; intelligence is the switch. Only

when the four work together do you get the light. The body is only

like a torch.

 

H: Surrender to God is everything of course but…

 

SAI: The word `surrender' in English is not quite correct; it is not

the right word. Because, when you say `surrender', you are separate

and God is separate. That is the meaning you get. But God is not

separate.

 

(to be continued…)

 

Ram Chugani

Kobe, Japan

Ramchand Chugani <rgcjp