Common man's Quest towards Inner Engineering to Happiness-4

[Guest guest]

Radhe Krishna To All,

 

“What is the sign of a person who has seen God? How are we to identify such a

person?†‘how are we to know that a person has seen God. Will there be any

special signs on him?’

 

Sri.Sri.Muralidhara Swamiji:

 

Normally I have been pointing out to what the Vedas have said in this context.

The Vedas have said, “the one who claims - ‘I have seen God, I have attained

Self-Realisation, I am a Jnani, there is no Jnani greater than I am, I possess

power that none other possesses’ - has really not seen God!†This is because

God is not something to be seen but is to be ‘experienced’. One who has had

darshan of God will become Silent. This is the universal reply.

 

How are we to know a person who has attained complete Bhagavat darshan/Jnana?

 

What I feel is that mere declaration by a person - ‘I have seen God’; ‘I

have attained Self-Realization’’ ‘I have become a Jnani’; ‘I have

attained Jivan Mukti state’; ‘I have cut asunder Maya’, (and advices

others) ‘all of you should cut asunder your Maya’ - and describes God to be

this or that does not confirm such experience, such knowledge. What is the

reason for saying so? Speech is different from experience/knowledge.

 

A person’s declaration that he has seen God or that he has attained

Self-Realization does not establish it. The Vedas and the Upanishads say that

such persons who go about bragging that they have seen God or have attained

Self-Realization have really not attained it. The Vedas say that those who have

really attained the highest state would not speak out. The Vedas say - ‘Yato

vãcha nivartante aprapya manasã saha' - that Highest Being is beyond words and

mind.

 

Thus, on the question of how to identify Mahans it has to be said that we cannot

spot them on the basis of words. Mahans can be identified (only) through their

‘‘charitra’’ (life history), through their life style. The

‘charitra’ of a true Mahan is like an open book. An open book has nothing to

hide. Is that not so? If we live with them for some time we find that they

(Mahans) sleep alongside others, wake up with others, have food with others.

Their life is found to be an open book with nothing to hide.

 

For example, Kanchi Periyava, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi,

Seshadri Swami were such Mahans. From their ‘charitra’ you find that they

mingled with all. Where do they sleep? Where do they bathe? What do they eat?

These are all open book.

 

There was no event in their lives for them to cover up. This is the first sign

of a Mahan. On seeing such Mahans respect arises in our heart and mind

spontaneously. This is another sign. Due to the divinity shining forth from them

respect, admiration and even fear arises in our heart without our knowledge.

This is another sign. Thirdly, from the ‘charitra’ of Mahans we find that

they face extraordinary events in their lives quite different from what we

mortals face.

 

Let us say that a person declares, ‘I have attained Self-Realisation (‘Atma

sakshatkara’). Let us assume that we take him to be a Jnani. But, you find

that he is unable to bear the least physical pain. When a doctor injects some

medicine into him he cries out in pain. He fears when a lizard or a cockroach

falls on him. So, it is found that there is no correlation between his words or

action.

 

There was a Jnani kown as Jada Bharata. When some people were about to axe him

down he stood smiling! When some people were about to axe down Adi Sankara he

stood his ground smiling! They did not even oppose the miscreants’ actions.

 

Do you know what Adi Sankara told his captors? Sankara told them, ‘till date I

had thought that this body of mine was of no use to anyone. But, if it could be

of some use to you go ahead and cut it!’

 

In the case of Jada Bharata, Goddess Kali could not bear the attempt to kill

this great Jnani and coming out of the idol she killed all those who had tried

to make a sacrifice of Jada Bharata.

 

There was a Mahatma by name Sadasiva Brahmendra. Once, a man cut off his arm.

Cut off from the body, the arm fell down but Sadasiva Brahmendra just walked

ahead without any sign of the occurrence!

 

Such incidents have occurred in the lives of Mahans. Do not judge a person (to

be a Mahatma) by his mere utterances. Move with them and find out. Observe how

they behave. Mahans also suffer diseases. There are people who abuse them also.

There are people who praise them. Mahans also face situations just like an

ordinary mortal. We have to notice the difference in facing the situations. How

they view a situation and how we face it.

 

When we observe this we can understand them to be beyond ordinary humans. We

find that there is more divinity in them than human behaviour. They possess

clemency (forgiveness), the mental capacity to face joy and sorrow in like

manner and the capacity to accept abuses and praise alike. They are totally

dispassionate towards all worldly things. We will be able to understand all

these when we live alongside them or by reading their ‘charitra’. Living

with them or reading about them and only by observing their life style we will

be able to understand if one is a Mahatma or not. We cannot come to a conclusion

(someone being a Jnani) through their self-proclamation or through the mouths of

some 10 or 100 people.

 

A person does not become a Mahatma for the mere reason that a thousand or a lakh

or a crore seek him. Today, crores of people throng the place of someone who is

very popular in some art field. Can one call him a Mahatma because of this? It

is not the sign of a Mahatma at all. Many persons holding high offices or many

wealthy persons thronging a person are also not signs of a person being a Jnani

because they (persons going to them) are also ignorant (‘ajnani’) only.

 

Can one say that they have divine vision (‘divya drishti’)? Or does wealth

make a person knowledgeable? He is also a man just as we are. We hold no high

office whereas he does. (That is the only difference). We possess no wealth but

he does. In fact, his mind is filled with as much or much more filth than ours.

Therefore, just because such people worship a person he does not become a

Mahatma. All these are not the signs of a Mahatma. Only on reading many a life

of a Mahan we learn the way they faced joy-sorrow (‘sukh-dukkh’),

praise-abuse, honour-insult. Only through this we come to understand about their

true glory (‘mahat’), their high standing.

 

Generally, while speaking on this subject of identifying a true Mahan what I say

is, ‘(you) do true bhakti to God, have sincere yearning to attain God. If you

possess real desire to attain God and have real involvement, He (God) will take

you to a true Mahatma/Guru.’ This is the reply that I repeatedly give.

 

Otherwise, if you wish to know who is a real Mahatma it can be known only

through their ‘charitra’ (life history) or through those who have lived with

him; and not on the basis of innumerable people thronging him or because he has

a big ashram or because he has vast wealth or people holding high offices visit

him or because a person proclaims, ‘I have become a Jnani’, ‘I have seen

God’. All these do not make a Mahatma of a person. Nor does one become a

Mahatma just because he speaks of the past or reads the future. This is because

even astrologers can read the past and future. For this reason they cannot be

called a Jnani.

 

Performance of miracles also cannot make a Mahatma of a person. The moment one

performs miracles he is exposed to be an ignorant. Performance of miracles is

the very sign of ‘ajnana’. No other sign is required for ‘ajnana’. The

moment a person performs miracle it is a sure sign of ‘ajnana’ in him! Only

the ignorant will perform wonders outwardly. So, we should understand this well.

All these are not signs of Jnana.

 

Jnana remains hidden,calm and full. Deep compassion, glory and the gush of that

Jnana reflect in the face. Deep calmness, peace (‘shanti’) is found (in a

Jnani). Sitting in such a Presence is enough. We do dhyana for many hours and we

know how difficult it is to control this mind. We find that the mind control

that we struggle to bring about through many hours, days, months of dhyana is

brought about very easily within few moments in the presence of a Jnani. Some

unknown bliss (is experienced). Some ‘ananda’ (joy) is experienced in that

Mahatma’s presence. Though these are the signs, the truth is that such great

Jnanis cannot be comprehended without the blessings of God. This is the truth. I

have spoken all these only because I have to say something. But, beyond all

these, only if we have the Grace of God, only if God shows it to us can we

spot/identify such true Jnanis and not otherwise. We cannot through our effort

spot such a Jnani.

 

!!! More Insightful answers to Follow!!!

 

Chant the Mahamantra Nama kirtan :

 

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

 

Regards

 

---------------------

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His Holiness Sri Sri Swamiji personally answers these questions for you and

suggests prayers.

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[Guest guest]

Is it that Jesus christ who performed miracles is not jnani and similarly other

saints who performed miracles are not jnanis? this concept is not agreeable.

sometimes it requires to perform miracle to awaken the ajnanis from their

ignorance.

 

Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Messenger. Download

Now! http://messenger./download.php

 

 

[Guest guest]

Radhe Krishna,

 

Thanks for your mail.

 

With ref to your mail I would like to clarify what our swamiji has said on

performing miracles.  Pl be unbiased in this.

 

1. Why a miracle in the first place needed?

2. Is it performed to help the devotee or for selfish gain?

3.  How a miracle happens in the first place?

 

  Our Swamiji comment was “Performance of miracles also cannot make a Mahatma of

a person”.

 

This is actually been expressed to swamiji’s who performs miracles to a huge

gatherings .This sort of action if we understand deeply only excites the mind of

an individual but will not honestly bring in a transformation of a devotee.

Further our swamiji says that, if you keep your mind thoughtless and positive,

and keep it one-pointed, that is strengthening the mind (‘Mano Balam’) By merely

having ‘Mano Balam’, it is possible to perform superhuman tasks like bending an

iron rod, or extracting the juice from a fruit without touching it and so on.

But these are occult practices.

The soul (aatma) is beyond the mind (manas). The power of the true Jnanis is

Atma Balam, and that is the real strength.

Further to answer the above

 

1. Why a miracle in the first place needed?

2. Is it performed to help the devotee or for selfish gain?

 

A true miracle or an incident will transform a devotee and will have a great

impact on his spiritual development  

 

2. How a miracle happens in the first place?

 

The mahatmas do not have a wish (sankalpa) of their own. However, numerous

devatas (higher beings) are ever present in the proximity of such a great soul.

They wish to serve the jivanmukthas in some way or the other and that is the

reason sometimes when a devotee prays for something in the presence of a

Mahatmas or an action of a Mahatmas, these devatas fulfill them immediately

which in other words we call it miracle.

 

 

3. In order to understand about what real miracles is then I would like to

narrate 2 real incident as quoted by our Swamiji and Many in Thiruvanammalai

have witnessed this too.

 

 

A. During the time of Yogi Ram Surat kumar swamiji , everyday a big group of

devotees used to participate and will sing bajans along with swamiji (singing

the divine names of the lord). On one such day suddenly the swamiji got up and

asked all the devotees to follow him. The devotees were surprised on the sudden

moment of swamiji and started to follow him, all walked along with swamiji

to approach a open dried well to notice a horse inside the well. The devotees

were taken aback. On noticing this, the devotee’s enquired swamiji, how you came

to know this?

Then swamiji replied saying that the horse prayed to me for its rescue and that

is the reason I have brought you all to help lift the horse from the well. All

devotees who had come along with swamiji said that it is not possible to lift

the horse and hence suggested to call the fire fighting teams help to rescue.

 Swamiji who was till then silent became furious and said if you people cannot

help, pl move aside and he immediately went around the well once chanting Om Sri

Ram Jay Ram Jaya Jaya Ram to everybody’s surprise the horse came up

automatically from inside  and ran away.

 

B. Once a couple, devotee of Yogi Ram Surat Kumar swamiji had come to have his

darshan in his ashram, after prostrating they got up and stood by the side of

Swamiji.  Swamiji called the male devotee and gave him Rs.358.40 ( No body knew

why and what was the reason to give that amount) and asked him to immediately

leave for Chennai without any further delay. As requested by swamiji they left

for Chennai and enroute the wife developed some complications and she was

admitted in the hospital in Chennai. Proper treatment was given. The Doctor

attending to her said that since you have come on the right time we were in a

position to save your wife or else the case would have been fatal and discharged

within 3-4 days. When the husband received the bill the amt was Rs. 358.40. The

couple were wonderstruck by the compassion for Swamiji in blessing the couple

and saving them.

 

Pl forgive me that this mail is not to prove our point, this is only to make the

understanding clear and more importantly we need to understand that if Guru does

a Miracle to his disciple it is only out of compassion for the devotee and

similarly the deep devotion the disciple have towards his Guru.

 

A Guru does not do Miracles all the time and also to all his devotees, only an

earnest devotee deserves and can also realize that.

 

 

Radhe Krishna

Ravishankar.G

 

--- On Sat, 10/18/08, rajen babu <rajen_b wrote:

 

rajen babu <rajen_b

www.telugubhakti.com Re:Common man's Quest towards Inner Engineering to

Happiness-4

 

Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:18 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is it that Jesus christ who performed miracles is not jnani and similarly other

saints who performed miracles are not jnanis? this concept is not agreeable.

sometimes it requires to perform miracle to awaken the ajnanis from their

ignorance.

 

Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Messenger. Download

Now! http://messenger. / download. php