An interview with His Holiness

[Guest guest]

Namami Sankaraachaaryam, sarvalokaika Poojitham

 

With permission blessings and grace from HH Swamy Vijeyendra Saraswathi garu of

Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham Paramacharya and miracles

 

An interview with His Holiness

Sir Paul Dukes and M. Philippe Lavastine

The following is an account by Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan, University Professor of

Philosophy, of the interview, which Sir Paul Dukes and M. Philippe Lavastine had

with His Holiness Sri Jagadguru Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham on

Wednesday, February 26, 1958.

A British publicist and a French savant had an interview with His Holiness Sri

Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham on Wednesday, February 26. The time

fixed for the interview was 9 p.m. Sir Paul Dukes arrived at His Holiness' Camp

at Theagarayanagar at 8-30 p.m. He was conducted to the place of the interview,

which was an open space, beneath a row or palms. There was a stack of hay in the

center of which was placed a wooden plank, which was to serve as a seat of His

Holiness. Struck by this, for him an unusual situation, Sir Paul remarked that

this was a romantic setting for the new experience he was looking forward to.

Presently, the Frenchman, M. Philippe Lavastine, arrived escorted moved at the

prospect of meeting a great, scholar-saint.

It was a little past nine. Our attention was drawn to the direction from where a

mild torchlight flashed. His Holiness was coming slowly, with those

unselfconscious steps, which are uniquely his. About half a dozen devotees who

were following him stepped back, as His Holiness sat on the wooden plan, asking

the group that was waiting for him to sit down, by graceful gesture. The two

guests sat at a short distance from His Holiness, with the interpreter in

between. The stage was set for the interview.

Sir Paul Dukes was the first to be introduced, as the author of two books whose

titles are : " The Unending Quest " and `Yoga for the Western World " . His Holiness

asked Sir Paul as to what he meant by " the unending quest'. The Englishman said

that in his own case, the quest had not ended yet. In the case of the average

Western, he added, it is thought that the quest ends once a particular Church

was accepted. Sir Paul's view was that this was not so.

Explaining the meaning of the expression " unending quest " , His Holiness

observed:

" If the quest is external, their would be o end to it. It would be like the

quest after the horizon-a hallucination. If the quest is inward, then it would

end with the discovery of the true Self. In a sense, even this latter quest may

be said to be unending in that its object is infinite " .

The Frenchman was now introduced as one interested in the study of our temple

and the Puranas, in connection with his researches into the institution of

kingship. Mr. M. Lavastine himself explained what his central problem was. In

ancient times, the temporal and the spiritual were united in the institution of

kingship. There was no division of the secular from the sacred. Probably, most

of the ills of the modern world are traceable to this division, which now

obtains. The French scholar thought that a study of the history of the South

Indian temples must throw light on the quest of the relation between temporal

power and spirituality.

His Holiness enquired if M. Lavastine had heard of the say. " raajaa dharmasya

kaaranam- . (The king is responsible for dharma). As His Holiness was giving

illuminating explanation of this saying, the two visitors were observed moving

close to him, with their attention fixed on every word of His. Although His

Holiness was speaking in Tamil, he used a profusion of English words to help the

interpreter in his task, and also the visitors in their understanding of him.

Not accustomed to squatting, the western visitors were assuming all sorts of

awkward postures. The interpreter touched the knees of the Frenchman, in order

to indicate that he could fold his legs. Observing this, His Holiness told the

interpreter that there is no need for this restraint. It was difficult for the

average Westerner to squat. The way in which the visitors sat did not matter.

They were like children in this respect. Why retrain them? How gracious of His

Holiness to have made this observation! Is this not a true sign of a Mahatma?

Explaining the above Sanskrit saying, His Holiness said: " It is natural that man

should seek to satisfy his wants like hunger, thirst and a place to rest. There

are duties which an individual has towards himself, the social group and the

nation. Ordinarily, the performance of these duties remains on the level of

satisfying the creaturely wants. But there is a way of performing these duties,

which will spiritually elevate everyone concerned. That is dharma. And it is the

duty of the king or the State to see that the citizens are provided with every

opportunity for spiritual growth and progress. That is the meaning of the

saying, dharma. And it is the duty of the king or the State to see that the

citizens are provided with every opportunity for spiritual growth and progress.

That is the meaning of the saying, raja dharmasya kaaranam " .

The Frenchman said that he wanted to study Sanskrit in the traditional Indian

way, directly from a teacher, without the aid of books. His Holiness expressed

his appreciation of this wish and remarked: " Even in India, that tradition has

all but disappeared. The old way was not to confuse the ability to read and

write with scholarship. Even the greater scholars did not know how to read and

write " . Here, one of the visitors cited the instance of Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa who could not even sign his name properly in Bengali. His Holiness

continued, " I am referring to even secular scholars. Writing was the special art

of a small class of people called kanakkars. They were good calligraphers. But

the rest of the people, for the most part, were not literate. Eminent

mathematicians, astronomers, physicians, Vedic scholars- these could not read

and write. Learning was imparted orally and was imbibed by rote. The method has

its own excellence, and could be revived with profit, within certain limits " .

" Would His Holiness favour the revival of all that is old and ancient? " asked

Sir Paul Dukes. His Holiness replied that what was good and of value was worthy

of revival. There was no need for any propaganda. This is not to be done that

way. If a few people would set an example in their personal lives, this would

catch on; and a time may come when the West also would emulate. And, when there

is recognition from the West, our people may wake up and see something grand in

their own past.

" One last request " said Sir Paul. " What would be the message from His Holiness

that could be carried to the West? " His Holiness remained silent for a

considerable length of time. He was in-drawn, with eyes half-closed, and lost in

contemplation. At the end of that period, he spoke in slow, measured tones:

" In all that you do, let love be the sole motive. Any deed must be with

reference to another. Action implies the acted-upon as much as the agent. Let

action be out of love. I am not here referring to the Gandhian gospel of ahimsa.

There may be situations which demand violent action. Punishments, for instance,

may be necessary. Even wars may have to be waged. But whatever be the nature of

the action, the agent must act out of love. Passions such as desire and hatred,

anger and malice, must be totally eschewed. If love becomes the guiding

principles of all deeds, then most of the ills of the world will vanish.

This you may carry with you as the message of the sages and saints of India " ,

His Holiness added.

Thus ended a memorable interview with one who is the embodiment of all that s

most noble and sublime in the spiritual culture of India. Enjoying the aroma of

the virtues of gentleness and courtesy, one could see the light of wisdom

beaming from those enchanting eyes, as one listened to words which were true,

and at the same time, pleasing.