Interesting questions from David.

[Guest guest]

Further to an earlier exchange of views on Hinduism with David,

we have now received a fresh set of questions from him.

We can see quite clearly that the questioner is sincerely

trying to come to terms and understand some of the difficult

key issues within the Hindu tradition.

I request the list members to respond.

 

jay

Vivekananda Centre London

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~mesg from David~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Jay

 

Thank you for taking time to answer my query on the concept of Sin in

Hinduism. I have some other questions which I would like you to answer

for me at your earliest.

 

1. From what I have read in Hindu Scriptures I do not think Hinduism

promotes idol worship. If this is so, please let me know how the worships

of idols came into practice or how would you justify idolatry so widely

practised among my Hindu friends. The Bible strictly prohibits idol worship

under the Mosiac Law since it demeans God. I have difficulty relating to

some of the idols in Hinduism although I can appreciate the sincerity of

the devotees who are trying to reach God through the idols whether out

of love or fear it is hard to say.

 

2. What is the definition of 'Maya' according to your understanding?

Some people thing 'Maya' pertains to this world which is an illusion.If this

interpretation is right than suffering in this world or noble deeds in this

world are all illusion and morality is not possible and then we have a

serious problem in enforcing the law in a civilized society.

 

3. Hinduism as I understand from my reading believe in monism,i.e.,

God is the one substance there is. Does this means that God is both

Evil and Good and there is nothing outside of God? If God is not the author

of Evil, what is the origin of evil? You stated there is no concept of

original

sin in Hinduism and man is essentially good although in degrees, some

better than other. How do we account for Hitlers and Stalins in this world

who were so depraved?

 

I do have a great respect for the many good teachings of Hinduism

and I have taken time to read some of the Sacred writings in Hinduism.

Hindu philosophy has great deal to offer.

 

Thank you for taking time to read this. Hope I can hear from you.

 

David

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02-08-26 14:53:04 EDT

 

<< 1. From what I have read in Hindu Scriptures I do not think Hinduism

promotes idol worship. If this is so, please let me know how the worships

of idols came into practice or how would you justify idolatry >>

 

I don't believe that " idol " is the right word. In Hinduism they worship a

" form " of God that appeals to the heart, be it Siva, Vishnu, Krishna, Kali,

etc. After all....all things come from God...this would include " forms " /

" idols " ...would it not?

 

<< What is the definition of 'Maya'>>

 

Yes, Maya is illusion...yet there are two types of Maya...that which leads

one to God, and that which leads one away from God. ALL in this world is

illusion....therefore, suffering as well as noble deeds are also Maya.

 

<<God is the one substance there is. Does this means that God is both

Evil and Good and there is nothing outside of God? >>

 

Remember....all that is, is God. This would also include evil. Same energy

flowing in opposite directions. Positive energy and negative energy. You

can not have one without the other. The Hitlers and Stalins of the world

were brought about by the negative energy aspect. Now what is interesting is

how " thought " plays upon this energy causing manifestation. I believe

thought must manifest, That being the case, then what brought the Hitlers

and Stalins into being could be a result of what was going on in peoples

minds at the time. Was there alot of extreme prejudice at the time? Alot of

power hungry thoughts...etc " ....No one but ourselves to blame.... "

 

Sue

[Guest guest]

>

> 1. From what I have read in Hindu Scriptures I do

> not think Hinduism

> promotes idol worship.

 

There are different facets of Hinduism. Advaita

Vedanta does not encourage idol worship. However it is

interesting to know that even Sri Shankaracharya, the

most revered promoter of this school, indulged in

prayers and idol worship.

 

If this is so, please let me

> know how the worships

> of idols came into practice or how would you justify

> idolatry so widely

> practised among my Hindu friends.

 

Idol worship is more like respecting the photographs

of the senior departed members of a family. We must

not think that the images being worshipped are false.

The sages of yore saw these forms during their

spiritual practices, described them and this is how

idol worship began. In our times we have Chandramoni

Devi, mother of Thakur, seeing with her naked eyes the

forms of various Gods & Goddesses during her

confinement.

 

The Bible strictly

> prohibits idol worship

> under the Mosiac Law since it demeans God.

 

But still the Christians bow down before the images of

Jesus and Mother Mary. Is this demeaning in any way ?

Mankind has always resorted to symbols and will

require them in their path to progress. Even the

Muslims have " 786 " and the Kabba.

 

I have

> difficulty relating to

> some of the idols in Hinduism although I can

> appreciate the sincerity of

> the devotees who are trying to reach God through the

> idols whether out

> of love or fear it is hard to say.

 

It is mostly love and sometimes fear; it all depends

upon ones relationship with God. We all love Thakur

but we are also afraid of him and pray for forgiveness

when we do something wrong. You need not relate to all

the idols in Hinduism. Just pick those forms which

attract you naturally. That will be a good beginning.

 

>

> 2. What is the definition of 'Maya' according to

> your understanding?

> Some people thing 'Maya' pertains to this world

> which is an illusion.If this

> interpretation is right than suffering in this world

> or noble deeds in this

> world are all illusion and morality is not possible

> and then we have a

> serious problem in enforcing the law in a civilized

> society.

 

This is a often raised question. Maya is the power of

God which projects the Universe. Maya is not

necessarily false, this is what Thakur taught us. It

is real but we have to go beyond this reality and

realise God. When Swamiji propagated Practical Vedanta

and spoke of the inherent divinity in every soul he

solved the problem of morality and ethics in Advaita.

When you are essentially divine and look upon

everybody else as such you automatically follow the

path of morality. " Mother " does not let you tread the

wrong path.

 

> 3. Hinduism as I understand from my reading believe

> in monism,i.e.,

> God is the one substance there is. Does this means

> that God is both

> Evil and Good and there is nothing outside of God?

> If God is not the author

> of Evil, what is the origin of evil? You stated

> there is no concept of

> original

> sin in Hinduism and man is essentially good although

> in degrees, some

> better than other. How do we account for Hitlers and

> Stalins in this world

> who were so depraved?

 

Well, Hinduism does not recognise Satan. But it does

admit evil. The Puranas speak of Daityas and Asuras

(Hitler and Stalin?). These daityas etc were always

defeated by the Gods after long periods of struggle.

If you talk of Good then you automatically have to

accept Evil (light and darkness). To totally

obliterate evil you have to go beyond Good and Evil. A

struggling jiva is subject to both Good and Evil but a

realised soul is beyond both.

 

> I do have a great respect for the many good

> teachings of Hinduism

> and I have taken time to read some of the Sacred

> writings in Hinduism.

> Hindu philosophy has great deal to offer.

 

Every religion has teachings that attract and those

that repell. It depends on the samskaras of the reader

what to accept and what to reject.

 

Regards

Jagannath

 

>

> Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

>

>

[Guest guest]

In our Vedic culture ( i dont want to use Hinduism as the term ),

both " Sagunam " (with attributes) and " Nirgunam " (without attributes)

Bhakti are followed.

 

If we want to summarize all the vedanta, one would say that " saguna "

and " nirguna " are like 2 sides of a paper. Just as a paper has 2

sides, the lord, the Brahmam, has 2 sides.

 

All Vaishnavas, worship Narayana's idols but in the purest form they

worship a " shalagramam " which is a special stone found in the river

Kantaki in Nepal.

 

All Shaivites worship Shiva with a picture of parvati by his side or

a snake around his neck with Ganga and Crescent moon on his head, but

then he is worshipped in the pure form as the Linga which is

formless.

 

All devotees of Shakti or godess Durga worship her using several

pictures of she riding a tiger with so many arms and weapons etc. But

in the subtle form she is also worshipped as just a mound of turmeric

by placing kumkum on it every day, again in a formless way.

 

Both are essentially the one and the same. The subtle has manifested

as the gross and yet both exist at the same time.

 

In vishnu-sahasranama we medidate on the lord as the Vishwaroopa, or

the cosmic-form representing the entire universe.

 

In Srimad Bhagavatam, Sri Suka says that " it is the Poorna Brahmam "

that has manifested as Sri Krishna and the Gopa, Gopis are so blessed

to have him as their friend.

 

Does that mean during the Avatars, there was no lord in Vaikuntam or

no Brahmam anywhere ? No, the lord is all pervading and in all forms.

 

It is a very subtle concept actually.

 

-- Pradeep

 

 

Ramakrishna, FREESUE@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 02-08-26 14:53:04 EDT

>

> << 1. From what I have read in Hindu Scriptures I do not think

Hinduism

> promotes idol worship. If this is so, please let me know how the

worships

> of idols came into practice or how would you justify idolatry >>

>

> I don't believe that " idol " is the right word. In Hinduism they

worship a

> " form " of God that appeals to the heart, be it Siva, Vishnu,

Krishna, Kali,

> etc. After all....all things come from God...this would

include " forms " /

> " idols " ...would it not?

>

> << What is the definition of 'Maya'>>

>

> Yes, Maya is illusion...yet there are two types of Maya...that

which leads

> one to God, and that which leads one away from God. ALL in this

world is

> illusion....therefore, suffering as well as noble deeds are also

Maya.

>

> <<God is the one substance there is. Does this means that God is

both

> Evil and Good and there is nothing outside of God? >>

>

> Remember....all that is, is God. This would also include evil.

Same energy

> flowing in opposite directions. Positive energy and negative

energy. You

> can not have one without the other. The Hitlers and Stalins of the

world

> were brought about by the negative energy aspect. Now what is

interesting is

> how " thought " plays upon this energy causing manifestation. I

believe

> thought must manifest, That being the case, then what brought the

Hitlers

> and Stalins into being could be a result of what was going on in

peoples

> minds at the time. Was there alot of extreme prejudice at the

time? Alot of

> power hungry thoughts...etc " ....No one but ourselves to

blame.... "

>

> Sue

[Guest guest]

The questions about Maya and about God's existence in Evil are kind

of related, so I will try to answer them here.

 

For starters, as long as we feel hunger, pain, happiness, sleep the

world around is as good as being real. This is like the reality of

the things in one's dream as long as that person is asleep.

 

If in a dream, we lose our job and are dejected, someone walks upto

us and says, " what the heck, this is all illusion, you're just in a

dream, " would it be convincing ?

 

That doesnt change anything, because there's no way we can determine

that its just a dream when we are in a dream. In that dream, the boss

really fired us, we really walked out of the office, we dont know how

we are going to face the future, and everthing is so real!

 

Similarly, in reality the appearance of the world and feeling of

emotions etc. is only in the mind. The dream was also only in the

mind. When there's total destruction of mind, there are no thoughts

and there is pure consciousness. That is the state of an Advaiti.

 

Ramana Maharishi used to say that when there's a slight wavering of

mind, there is a thought and there is " samsaaram " or the world. But

if there is no thought, then that is Mukti, or liberation.

 

The illusion of the world appearing to be real is Maya.

 

To the second part of the question where David asked if Hitlers and

other tyrants are also manifestations of God, the answer is that God

is everywhere and in everyone.

 

It is the mind and the body that is different for each person. The

mind and the body are " achetana " or " jada " . They are as good as

nothing when there's no consciousness or " chaitanya " . That

consciousness is the God, or the Brahmam. It is reffered to as " Sat-

chit-ananda " . It is pure, full of consciousness and joyousness.

 

An evil person is one who has evil thoughts and does evil actions.

But then it is his mind that generates the thoughts, and his body

that executes the actions through his sense organs.

 

The Chaitanyam within him does not get tarnished the least by the

actions of his body or the thoughts in his mind. Chaitanyam is the

soul, which we call the Brahmam or God.

 

When there is no Maya, such as a Jivan Muktha, he sees God in

everything, including Hitler. But since we dont have that Supreme

Jnana, we see the differences in people.

 

-- Pradeep