Jiddu & Others

[Guest guest]

What an impressive statement to say that whether you chant Coca Cola or Hare Rama it means the same. From the highest standpoint it is true. But not until you have reached a certain stage.

I have been closely following the discussion on Jiddu Kishnamurti. I believe that all his teachings were from the highest standpoint of non dualism. In a sense all self realised souls and also the Bhagvad Gita recognise that for a self realised soul all formalities of name and form drop away. Even Thakur Sri Ramakrishna said that Sandhya and gayatri have no meaning after self realisation.

However if there is one thing that was different about Jiddu Krishnamurthi, it was that he did not distinguish between the audience to whom he spoke.

In that sense Thakur was a genius since he used to create customised tailor made solutions for each individual and therefore was the opposite extreme of Krishnamurthi. He could talk two different and opposite things in the same breath to two different people in the same room suited to the respective people.

Also Sri Sankara the other champion of non dualism was an equally staunch idol worshipper who composed soul stirring hymns and extolled Bhakti as a means to attain God and that was elegantly and smoothly merged with his belief in non dualism. He would never teach non dualism until he saw that the '''receptacle'' was a fit one to hold that.

Having said all the above I think that one can not take away from Jiddu krishnamurthi that he had attained the highest state and was a true Nirguna Advaita follower.

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[Guest guest]

The difference between someone like Thakur and Jiddu is that Thakur

was an " Avatara-Purusha " . In one of Ramakrishna's visions itself, he

says how he emerged as a light from the Sapta-Rishis and when he was

preparing to descend, the light also went and called one more Rishi

to descend along with him (that was Vivekandanda).

 

In my opinion, Avatara-Purushas specifically descend for a purpose.

Their life might be simple, but their glory lasts for many many years

and also liberates by the thousands and millions. They can preach

anything, not just one path such as Vedanta Vichara, or Bhakti or

Yoga. They are with all the skills, and they can prescribe different

paths for different disciples. For example, while Vivekananda was

just asked to spread the message, some others were just asked to

medidate, and someone else would just be asked to practise Bhakti.

 

Whereas, with someone such as Jiddu, all would have only instruction.

Though the state in which Jiddu would have been might be the same as

Ramakrishna, the purpose would be different. So " avatara-purushas "

are very very rare to find.

 

To just list some avatara-purushas like that, we can

say " Sankara " , " Ramanuja " , " Chaitanya " and then " Ramakrishna " . Though

there have been many great saints that have walked this land,

Avataras are very rare.

 

Kanchi Chandrasekarendra Saraswati, the 68th pontiff, who attained

siddhi at the age of 100 in 1993 could be equated to an avatar. If

someone has known his life history and how at the age of just 12 he

was made the pontiff and how he austere he was and the spiritual

wealth he had, it is really worth knowing. He guided Paul Brunton

mysteriously (in the form of a light) to Ramana Maharishi. Very

rarely do we see such open miracles in his life.

 

He walked the entire length and breadth of india just on bare foot

and helped revive vedic culture in the south when it was fast fading

under the British regime. Only someone very close to him would be

able to understand his spiritual wealth, others would call him a

great pundit, scholar, clairvoyant, well versed in several arts,

languages and cultures etc. But in all ways, he shone distinctly in

the line of Acharyas at the Kanchi Mutt (after Bodhendra and Atma

Bodhendra of 17th and 18th century)

 

Radhe Krishna

[Guest guest]

Thanks Devinder,

 

But I still think a realised soul would fall back upon

" Hare Rama " or other mahavakyas rather than say " Coca

Cola " . Jiddu Krishnamurthy and many others only have

the western audience in mind and they shape their

teachings accordingly. They also have the urge to seem

modern. Nothing wrong in that so long as you don't

purposefully mislead others.

 

Jiddu Krishnamurthy evidently felt that all would

understand his teachings. But that is rarely so.

Therefore the teacher should grade his teachings

according to the receptacle. Jiddu never did that.

 

Moreover when it is known that the Brahman is

inaccesible by the mind alone one wonders about Gurus

who stay purely in the mental level and advocate

mental polemics.

 

No offence meant please. This is just a discussion.

 

Regards

Jagannath

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Ramakrishna, Jagannath Chatterjee <jagchat01> wrote:

> Thanks Devinder,

>

> But I still think a realised soul would fall back upon

> " Hare Rama " or other mahavakyas rather than say " Coca

> Cola " . Jiddu Krishnamurthy and many others only have

> the western audience in mind and they shape their

> teachings accordingly. They also have the urge to seem

> modern. Nothing wrong in that so long as you don't

> purposefully mislead others.

>

Namaste,

 

A genuine teacher teaches only what he/she has practised! If JK

had realised the Supreme chanting 'Coca Cola' I would believe him.

For seekers of Truth, there is no difference of Eastern and Western.

Chanting this 'modern' mantra is tantamount to demeaning the whole

shastras; no teacher of Truth has ever done this. 'You become what

you think of'; if Truth is one's goal, better stick to something that

reminds one of it.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Yes Sunder,

 

Many people think that our traditional mantras are

mere words and make fun of them. But these mantras

carry subtle vibrations which benefits one

spiritually. Moreover they have been sanctified by the

many saints and sages who have repeated them and many

more who are still doing so.

 

When I met Srimat Swami Gahanandaji Maharaj during his

stay at Bhubaneswar, he enquired whether I was

reciting the Gayatri Mantra which I had received at

the time of upanayana. When I replied in the negative

and said I thought the initiation mantra was enough he

immediately corrected me and asked me to recite the

Gayatri Mantra also. This shows what deep regard and

respect the saints have for our traditional mantras.

 

So naturally one gets irritated when people say they

have achieved the goal by chanting " Coca-Cola " . Even

Sri Dayananda Saraswati, as we read in the Kathamrita,

had a similiar disregard for mantras. He asked people

to chant " sandesh " instead. Birds of a feather flock

together I suppose!

 

Again, I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

 

Regards

Jagannath

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jagganath,

 

This conversation brings out an important truth concerning the effect of

sound on our spiritual state.

 

While it it true that the realized sage discerns all is Brahman, such is not

the case for those persons who have not yet attained realization. " I am not

the body " : but for those who do not yet know it, identification with the

body remains and so the body is either an obstacle or a vehicle. And so it

is with the ear in particular, hence the yoga of sound.

 

To cite an example, I myself had conversations with a certain young person

over the course of many months concerning the effect of " rap " on the

spiritual life. He insisted all sound was the same, asserting that " rap "

was as good as mantra! He went so far as to remark, on the occasion of

hearing Sanskrit chant, that it sounded to him the same as " rap " . He

refused to accept the warning concerning the deleterious effect of these

dark and disturbing sounds, and instead immersed himself in them. In course

of time he was admitted to a mental hospital in the throes of a complete

nervous breakdown. His psychiatrist's prescription: " Never listen to 'rap'

again! "

 

Now, having recovered his right mind by the grace of the Lord, he chants

mantra and sings the Holy Names. His sattvic tendencies have been greatly

strengthened, sweetness and joy have replaced his dark confusion, and his

marks have attained the " A " honors list.

 

This story shows that we should not make indiscriminate use of any sounds,

especially to the extent of immersing ourselves in them. Instead we should

closely follow the instructions of our revered swamis with full confidence.

 

Yours,

 

Stephen

 

 

-

" Jagannath Chatterjee " <jagchat01

<Ramakrishna >

Sunday, September 15, 2002 3:19 AM

Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Jiddu & Others

 

 

> Yes Sunder,

>

> Many people think that our traditional mantras are

> mere words and make fun of them. But these mantras

> carry subtle vibrations which benefits one

> spiritually. Moreover they have been sanctified by the

> many saints and sages who have repeated them and many

> more who are still doing so.

>

> When I met Srimat Swami Gahanandaji Maharaj during his

> stay at Bhubaneswar, he enquired whether I was

> reciting the Gayatri Mantra which I had received at

> the time of upanayana. When I replied in the negative

> and said I thought the initiation mantra was enough he

> immediately corrected me and asked me to recite the

> Gayatri Mantra also. This shows what deep regard and

> respect the saints have for our traditional mantras.

>

> So naturally one gets irritated when people say they

> have achieved the goal by chanting " Coca-Cola " . Even

> Sri Dayananda Saraswati, as we read in the Kathamrita,

> had a similiar disregard for mantras. He asked people

> to chant " sandesh " instead. Birds of a feather flock

> together I suppose!

>

> Again, I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

>

> Regards

> Jagannath

>

>

>

> News - Today's headlines

> http://news.

>

>

>

> Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Jagannathji,

 

As Vyasa Maharshi said:

 

Follow true words, even if they come out of the mouth of a babe;

 

discard a lie, even if it comes out of the mouth of Brahma!

 

There need be no offence taken; one should accept all

teachings that have been verified by other sages.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

Ramakrishna, Jagannath Chatterjee <jagchat01> wrote:

> Yes Sunder,

>

> Many people think that our traditional mantras are

> mere words and make fun of them. But these mantras

> carry subtle vibrations which benefits one

> spiritually. Moreover they have been sanctified by the

> many saints and sages who have repeated them and many

> more who are still doing so.

>

 

>

> So naturally one gets irritated when people say they

> have achieved the goal by chanting " Coca-Cola " . Even

> Sri Dayananda Saraswati, as we read in the Kathamrita,

> had a similiar disregard for mantras. He asked people

> to chant " sandesh " instead. Birds of a feather flock

> together I suppose!

[Guest guest]

I was the one, who initiated the discussion on Jiddu. I personally

havent even read one full book by him except some web resources.

And neither do I follow his words or take him as my Guru.

 

But there are other true saints of his time, such as Papa Ramdas,

Sivananda and Kanchi Paramacharya (all who have attained the advaitic

state), who mention Jiddu as a true and great saint. One builds a

list of true saints, by the people who talk about them. Its like a

chain-of-trust which gets built only by believing the words from the

mouth of another true saint.

 

Infact, my mention of the incident with Yogi Ramsuratkumar would

prove this. Because, there's a magazine that's being brought out by

the Yogi ashram. There's no doubt about the fact that Yogi attained

the absolute (Papa Ramdas & Kanchi Paramacharya vouch for this).

 

Yogi has expressed the incident about " coca-cola " in this magazine

and still acknowledges that Jiddu was in the highest state and

mentioning " nirguna " when he said that. Yogi had the highest regard

for Jiddu in that article.

 

If Jiddu really had contempt for " Rama Nam " then Yogi or Papa Ramdas

wouldnt mention Jiddu as a advaiti, because then Jiddu would be still

having a distinction between like and dislike which means he would

not be an advaiti. But Jiddu really had no discrimination, and that's

what sets him high.

 

So one need not doubt if Jiddu had reached the absolute state. He

certainly had. But our paths are different, we are followers of

Thakur.

 

I totally to the fact that without a Guru, one's life is

like an orphan. Guru's grace is inevitable, and he alone opens the

doors to God's realm. The story of Namdev is enough proof for this.

So in those aspects, I find Jiddu's teachings undigestable.

 

That's why I initiated the discussion about Jiddu's philosophy and

get views of others.

 

Infact Vivekananda, said once that he would " spit on that advaita

that equates him with the Guru " . Even in the highest state, one

cannot forget the grace of the Guru. The great advaiti " Sankara " ,

wanted to write a commentary on one his disciples' works

(Sureshwaracharya's). But before writing that, he bows to

Sureshwaracharya and thinks of him as a Guru, before writing the

commentary. He does so, because only when one bows to a Guru, one

gets the mind-set & power to do even an aota of what the Guru can do.

 

So that's my personal stand on Jidu's philosophy. It was nice getting

all those views about Jiddu.

 

Radhe Krishna