Guest guest Posted September 28, 2002 Report Share Posted September 28, 2002 dear all, sometime back i had opened up the issues raisied in 'kali's child' by jeff kirpal. i found that there was no serious further discussion or information. i find some other topics of similar issues or points of view got better discussed. i would appreciate if i can have valuable views from much informed followers of this group. thanks chellamani --- Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda wrote: > Further insights into the use of words > Monism and Non-dualism (advaita) by Swami > Vivekananda. > > ~~~~~~~~~This email contribution from Sister > Gayatriprana~~~~~~~~~ > > Thank you for your comments on advaita vs monism. I > reviewed Swamiji's use > of these two words, and there is no doubt that he > used monism mostly in the > West, where he may have picked it up from > intellectual circles (though he > did use it at the Parliament of Religions before he > met William James, etc. > Of course, he could have heard it from Professor > Wright's circle of > friends). Also, the professors at Harvard seemed to > have been familiar with > advaita, because he was asked questions on that > subject. > I note that he tended to use advaita when he was > giving lectures to scholars > or close devotees or communicating with scholarly > types like Sturdy or > Nivedita. Monism is used more often in more casual > presentations. For > example, his lecture at Harvard contains only > advaita, while his discussion > with the professors and students uses monism (of > course admixed with > advaita, a word they themselves used freely ). > Interestingly, his use of > the word was very marked in Practical Vedanta, > although the other London > lectures were more formal and used advaita. He used > monism most in > California, which may go along with your idea that > he was using the current > " buzz " words in the West. That is also what I > think; I have noticed on many > occasions that Swamiji uses the language of whomever > he is addressing. > > What is also curious is that his use of monism in > India occurs mostly in > his early lectures from Colombo to Almora. By The > Vedanta in Lahore, > however, monism disappears entirely; again, this > lecture was packed with > references to advaita and contains a powerful formal > discussion of the > subject. What that suggests to me is that his > " Western style " carried over > into his early work in India, but within a year had > completely disappeared. > Or, possibly, that his audience was less traditional > and scholarly than the > Lahore audience which was, after all, convened by > Tirtha Ram, a professor of > mathematics. I have noticed ,when I look at how he > translated mantras from > the Upanishads and Gita, that in oft-quoted verses > he would carry over > certain " Western " words to which he seems to have > taken a fancy and weave > them in with more traditional words in his > translations. > > What I have found in connection with these words > fits all of my previous > discoveries about Swamiji's use of language. With > this particular pair of > words, however, I would like to look into Swamiji's > use of monism, as that > is the problematical word in our present context. I > believe looking at some > of these instances might be quite revealing. I am > quite sure that Swamiji's > primary goal was to convey meaning to his audiences > and he used whatever > words would do that. In India, he knew that > advaita would say everything; > in the West, monism is where it was at , at least > with certain audiences - > and just how he used it for his own purposes is what > I would like to > discover. Unfortunately at present I do not have > time to go into how his > Western contemporaries were using the word, but I > know the likes of Paul > Carus were using it freely and it was current in > German philosophical > circles. > > I am sure he made no mistakes in his choice of > language. This was a master > wordsmith and a supreme spiritual teacher, who did > not stand on formalities > if that would obstruct the flow of transmission to > his audiences. > Furthermore, he had the capacity to infuse familiar > words with totally new > meaning. This I have also documented on a number of > occasions. Following > leads like this has brought me to several aha > moments in understanding > Swamiji's thought. > > I do not think any of these findings negate the > conventional distinctions > that we ordinarily make, especially in Indian > circles, between advaita and > monism. > > I will share anything interesting I find in my > sleuthing. > > Cordially, > Gayatriprana > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2002 Report Share Posted September 28, 2002 - " gayatri chellamani " <gayat52 <Ramakrishna > Saturday, September 28, 2002 06:35 Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Monism and Non-dualism > > dear all, > > sometime back i had opened up the issues raisied in > 'kali's child' by jeff kirpal. i found that there was > no serious further discussion or information. i find > some other topics of similar issues or points of view > got better discussed. > > i would appreciate if i can have valuable views from > much informed followers of this group. > > thanks > > > chellamani > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Chellamani We had discussed the book and its content to a certain extent. One of the list members had provided a link to the sites that have details of the book and the scholarly response by Swami Tyagananda. If you need these details again then please email me. Let me re-state: Sri Ramakrishna exhibited no lust towards either gender. Our understanding of Sri Ramakrishna will depend on our own inner development. In my personal opinion this book is a warped man's attempt to understand a spiritual giant. Why waste time discussing a diseased mind's ravings? jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2002 Report Share Posted September 29, 2002 dear mr. jay, i am very pleased with your reply and ofcourse i have gone thru the response of swami tyagananda which is very powerful, factual and logical. as u said, it is like 'an ant trying to guage or measure the full sugarhill' ! thanks chellamani --- Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda wrote: > - > " gayatri chellamani " <gayat52 > <Ramakrishna > > Saturday, September 28, 2002 06:35 > Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Monism and > Non-dualism > > > > > > dear all, > > > > sometime back i had opened up the issues raisied > in > > 'kali's child' by jeff kirpal. i found that there > was > > no serious further discussion or information. i > find > > some other topics of similar issues or points of > view > > got better discussed. > > > > i would appreciate if i can have valuable views > from > > much informed followers of this group. > > > > thanks > > > > > > chellamani > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dear Chellamani > > We had discussed the book and its content to a > certain extent. One of the > list members had provided a link to the sites that > have details of the > book and the scholarly response by Swami Tyagananda. > If you > need these details again then please email me. > > Let me re-state: > Sri Ramakrishna exhibited no lust towards either > gender. > > Our understanding of Sri Ramakrishna will depend on > our own > inner development. In my personal opinion this book > is a > warped man's attempt to understand a spiritual > giant. > Why waste time discussing a diseased mind's ravings? > > jay > > > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2002 Report Share Posted September 30, 2002 Ramakrishna, " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda@b...> wrote: > - > " gayatri chellamani " <gayat52> > <Ramakrishna> > Saturday, September 28, 2002 06:35 > Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Monism and Non-dualism > > > > > > dear all, > > > > sometime back i had opened up the issues raisied in > > 'kali's child' by jeff kirpal. i found that there was > > no serious further discussion or information. i find > > some other topics of similar issues or points of view > > got better discussed. > > > > i would appreciate if i can have valuable views from > > much informed followers of this group. > > > > thanks > > > > > > chellamani > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dear Chellamani > > We had discussed the book and its content to a certain extent. One of the > list members had provided a link to the sites that have details of the > book and the scholarly response by Swami Tyagananda. If you > need these details again then please email me. > > Let me re-state: > Sri Ramakrishna exhibited no lust towards either gender. > > Our understanding of Sri Ramakrishna will depend on our own > inner development. In my personal opinion this book is a > warped man's attempt to understand a spiritual giant. > Why waste time discussing a diseased mind's ravings? > > jay Dear Ones, In reading and re-reading the Master's Gospel over the course of many years, I did of course notice some of the passages discussed by the lamented author of Kali's Child. But the sweetness and innocence of our beloved Master always seemed to me to be the explanation of all such phenomena so I was not unduly troubled. Still, I was dismayed to find from the present posts that someone has written a whole book making sick remarks about Sri Ramakrishna. Having seen the reputation of so many teachers tarnished by " revelations " such as these, it was with a heavy heart that I proceeded to look up Swami Tyagananda's response. I am very glad I did! The Swamiji's refutation is absolutely masterful. While not your normal devotional fare, the article has greatly enhanced my understanding and reverence for our peerless Master, removing all the aspersions cast by the lamented author while at the same time answering any lingering questions which may have arisen in my own mind from personal reading. Sri Ramakrishna's purity and beauty are more firmly established after these inquiries than ever before. What an unprecedented outcome in this Dark Age in which we live! Glory, everlasting glory, to Bhagavan Sri Ramakrishna! Stephen C. Conte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Hi, can anyone point me to the message of Swami Tyagananda regarding the book Kali's Child. Thank you, Prasad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Swami Tyagananda's homepage: http://home.earthlink.net/~tyag/Home.htm On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, pratapaprasad wrote: > Hi, > can anyone point me to the message of Swami Tyagananda regarding > the book Kali's Child. > > Thank you, > Prasad > > > > > Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah > Vivekananda Centre London > http://www.vivekananda.co.uk > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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