Some quotes that worry Vishvajit

[Guest guest]

11/14/2002 3:54:22 AM, " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda

wrote:

 

>Vishwajit has sent us a list of quotes from the Christian

>tradition. He has asked our list members to explain them.

>(I suspect that the parts that worry him are the parts relating to

>Non Vegetarian food habits).......jay

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~email~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> " vishwajit " <vbhadrashetty

>

>Here is the list of quotes which are self-contradictory:

>

>Genesis 9:1-3 says: " Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying

>to them, " Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear

>and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of the earth and all the

>birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and

>upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything

>that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green

>plants, now I give you everything. "

 

According to the Christian tradition, this was God's concession to Noah and his

descendants, presumably on account of the spiritual and moral degeneration and

animal fear of mankind that had arisen between creation and the flood.

 

Originally, mankind was created vegetarian: Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I

have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth,

and

every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall

be for

meat.

 

And not only mankind, but the animan creation as well: Genesis 1:30 And to every

beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that

creepeth

upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat:

and it

was so.

 

>Luke 24:42-43, " And they gave him (Jesus) a piece of a

>broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. "

 

According to the Christian tradition, there was no impropriety in Jesus eating

fish.

This is because of the Noahic dispensation in Genesis 9:1-3, quoted above.

 

>Isaiah 11:6-9.

>

> " The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the

>goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little

>child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, and their

>young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

>The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child

>put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy

>on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge

>of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. "

 

At this point, Isaiah is speaking of a far future time in which the original

harmonious

state of paradise is restored, man and beast are friends again, and

vegetarianism

again is the order of the day.

 

But the passage remains problematic. Most of the ancient Orthodox christian

tradition sees the time of fulfillment and restoration of lost harmony as being

the

time of the church itself. Yet the church is not vegetarian, except for the

monks

who are supposed to embody the ideal. Everybody else eats meat.

 

Other christians see this Isaiah passage as being unfulfilled and referring not

to the

church but to something that is to happen at the end of time, perhaps an

end-times

millennium or even heaven itself. But that is not the traditional view and has

even

been rejected as heretical by historic christianity.

 

Even so, one still has to deal with the unresolved fact that Jesus even after

his

resurrection is said to have eaten fish. If this was not good at the time of

the

creation, and if it will not be good at the end of time, then why is the

glorified

post-resurrection Jesus allowed to do it?

 

>These are the quotes which are self-contradictory.

 

Much of the bible is contradictory. But why shouldn't it be? It is a

collection of

ancient writings drawn from many cultures and many authors. People would be

well

advised to do with it what Sri Ramakrishna did with christianity as a whole:

keep the

good and pass over the differences created by " climate, temperament, and name. "

 

Shivaram Das

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" Once someone gave me a book of the Christians.

I asked him to read it to me. It talked of nothing

but sin. The wretch who constantly says, " I am

bound, I am bound', only succeeds in being bound.

He who says day and night, 'I am a sinner, I am a

sinner' verily becomes a sinner. "

-Sri Ramakrishna

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Regarding the quote where all the animals living in harmony, but

which are actually predators & prey, it can be interpreted as follows.

 

In the story of Sabari, who gives fruits to Rama, it starts out with

a description of her before she comes to the hermitage (ashram).

 

She's actually a hunter who lives by killing almost everything that

moves and has no remorse of any sort for her doings. Accidentally,

during her hunts she happens to pass by Matanga rishi's hermitage.

 

There she finds the same scene that the quote describes. That is

predators and prey being together, natural enemies being friendly and

undescribable peace which even she feels.

 

Then she approaches the sage and slowly by his grace she changes her

ways. He never gives any explicit advice to her, but by his mere

presence and grace, he seems to have an effect on her.

 

The same is true when Sri Krishna was playing the flute. All the wild

animals and the deer gathered there totally mesmerised and immersed

in the bliss.

 

In God's kingdom, there is so much peace that enemity totally

disappears there.

[Guest guest]

Dear Vishwajit,

 

Jesus wasn't vegetarian. Neither were Sri Ramakrishna,

Swamiji, nor the Rishis of old. Bengalis eat alot of

fish. Tibetans eat meat because very few plants grow

in Tibet. Jesus said:

 

" It's not what you put in your mouth that defiles you,

but what comes out of it. "

 

That being said, vegetarian food is the most satvic

and conducive to meditation. If your doing hard

physical labor everyday, then you might require

non-vegetarian food on occasion. If your a monk and

spend most of your waking hours in meditation, little

food will be required. It depends on your culture,

activity, availability of fresh vegetarian food, etc.

 

Find a diet that suits your constitution. Avoid

refined and prcessed foods. I think vitamins and

supplements are a good idea because most plant foods

lack the necessary vitamins because our soil has

become so depleted. Ayurvedic herbs can help restore

balance. Hatha yoga, especially Agni Sara, is a great

practice for your digestive system. Pranayama too

helps clean toxins from the system and increase

vitality. Avoid extemes and you'll find inner balance

and peace.

 

RD

 

--- Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda

wrote:

> Vishwajit has sent us a list of quotes from the

> Christian

> tradition. He has asked our list members to explain

> them.

> (I suspect that the parts that worry him are the

> parts relating to

> Non Vegetarian food habits).......jay

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~email~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> " vishwajit " <vbhadrashetty

>

> Here is the list of quotes which are

> self-contradictory:

>

> Genesis 9:1-3 says: " Then God blessed Noah and his

> sons, saying

> to them, " Be fruitful and increase in number and

> fill the earth. The fear

> and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of

> the earth and all the

> birds of the air, upon every creature that moves

> along the ground, and

> upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into

> your hands. Everything

> that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I

> gave you the green

> plants, now I give you everything. "

>

>

> Luke 24:42-43, " And they gave him (Jesus) a piece of

> a

> broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it,

> and did eat before them. "

>

> Isaiah 11:6-9.

>

> " The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will

> lie down with the

> goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling

> together; and a little

> child will lead them. The cow will feed with the

> bear, and their

> young will lie down together, and the lion will eat

> straw like the ox.

> The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and

> the young child

> put his hand into the viper's nest. They will

> neither harm nor destroy

> on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full

> of the knowledge

> of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. "

>

> These are the quotes which are self-contradictory. I

> can still

> write a lot about this. I know I am little bit rash

> in my way of writing.

> I beg your pardon for that. You can edit my

> postings(so that they are not offensive to any one).

> Thanks for your consideration.

>

> " vishwajit " <vbhadrashettySri Ramakrishnaye Namah

> Vivekananda Centre London

> http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

>

>