Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Interesting message we wish to share with the group........jay Arthur Hansen arthansen Vivekananda Centre Sunday, February 02, 2003 06:09 Internet Visit Thanks for the information on the Internet. I will use the information that I downloaded from you site to teach a 6th grade class at our Unitarian Universalist Church in Annapolis, Maryland, USA. I have traveled to India and have great respect for the people and religion. I own the Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda and have read about 1/4 of it. I hae studied the Bhagavad Gita and many Upanashads. My own practice is Buddhist. My first meditation teacher was a Hindu, Sri Eknath Easwaran, deceased, from Blue Mountain Meditation Center in California, originally from Kerla, India. We Unitarian Universalists and Buddhists are demonstrating for peace in Washington. Don't think that all Americans are supporting the calls to war. More than half do not want war. Nameste, Art Hansen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~reply~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Art Thank you for contacting us. We are sending this message to our lists. It is wonderful to make contact with people like you who are so sincere and devoted to the 'spirit' regards jay Vivekananda Centre London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 May i ask though, in all humility, is not war right in this context? Do you really think Saddam Hussein is open to negotiation? THere are certain classes of people who do not understand the language of rational thought process. would you brand me to be a war monger for my views? > " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda >Ramakrishna > " Arthur Hansen " <arthansen, " list " ><Ramakrishna >, " self-knowledge-list " ><Self-knowledge >, " viv list " <vivekananda > >[sri Ramakrishna] Re: Internet Visit >Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:32:10 -0000 > >Interesting message we wish to share with the group........jay > Arthur Hansen > arthansen > Vivekananda Centre > Sunday, February 02, 2003 06:09 > Internet Visit > > > Thanks for the information on the Internet. I will use the information >that I downloaded > from you site to teach a 6th grade class at our Unitarian Universalist >Church in Annapolis, Maryland, USA. > > I have traveled to India and have great respect for the people and >religion. I own the > Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda and have read about 1/4 of it. I >hae studied > the Bhagavad Gita and many Upanashads. My own practice is Buddhist. My >first > meditation teacher was a Hindu, Sri Eknath Easwaran, deceased, from Blue > Mountain Meditation Center in California, originally from Kerla, India. > > We Unitarian Universalists and Buddhists are demonstrating for peace in > Washington. Don't think that all Americans are supporting the calls to >war. > More than half do not want war. > > Nameste, > Art Hansen > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~reply~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dear Art > > Thank you for contacting us. We are sending this message to our lists. >It is wonderful > to make contact with people like you who are so sincere and devoted to >the 'spirit' > > regards > jay > Vivekananda Centre London _______________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:32:10 -0000, Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda wrote: > Interesting message we wish to share with the group........jay > Arthur Hansen > arthansen Vivekananda Centre Sunday, February 02, > 2003 06:09 > Internet Visit > We Unitarian Universalists and Buddhists are demonstrating for peace in > Washington. Don't think that all Americans are supporting the calls to > war. > More than half do not want war. Namaste. I certainly don't want war, most certainly not this paricular war, but sadly the choice is not so simple. A false peace is worse than war: witness the decade of terrible suffering for Iraqi children, partisans and dissidents that has followed the US decision to disengage from the first Gulf conflict without regime change. It would have been so easy then, but " peace " advocates prevailed. So did Saddam. Now action looms again - this time with the plague vials full and ready to be poured out. I don't want war, but some things are worse than war. Pranaams, Shivaram -- " 0 my Naren, are you still not convinced? He who was Rama and Krishna is now Ramakrishna - but not in your Vedantic sense! " - Sri Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Dear Sir. thank you for your reply. perhaps i am a little emotional in this matter, but i do feel strongly about it. i have responded to your views in block capitals. please do not mistake that for shouting, i just wanted to differentiate my response to your letter. please forgive me for sounding off thus. i have the highest regard and respect for your wishing for peace and working for it. your remembering ww II and other wars shows that your wisdom and the knowledge of the horrors of war are something all of human kind can imbibe. but i still wish to air my views so that i can learn to see where i am going wrong in my own thoughts... Pranams and Namaste jairam +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jai~ Raam, I agree that Saddam Hussein is a madman dictator. He must be dealt with. If we attack him without the sanctions of the UN we are acting as a policeman for the world, IT IS NOT THAT THE US IS ACTING AS THE WORLD’S POLICEMAN, IT IS MERELY PROTECTING ITS OWN INTERESTS AND THAT OF THE FREE WORLD. a job that has not been delegated to us. There could be serious consequences to us, the UK and a handful of other countries if we look like we are acting in an imperialist manner. DEPENDS HOW YOU VIEW THIS. IS ACTING FOR THE RIGHT AN IMPERIALIST MANNER? OTHER COUNTRIES ARE NOT WITH THE U.S BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT AS AFFECTED AND EACH NATION HAS ITS OWN POLITICAL AGENDA. I MIGHT ADD THAT INDIA IS NOT OPENLY SIDING WITH THE U.S ONLY BECAUSE OF THE VERY LARGE MUSLIM POPUILATION. THE PRISONERS IN GUANTANOMO BAY ARE NATIONALS OF MANY COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THE U.S, BRITAIN, SWEDEN, FRANCE, GERMANY SPAIN, PAKISTAN, BUT NOT ONE MUSLIM FROM INDIA IS AN AL QAEDA MEMBER, DESPITE INDIA HAVING THE LARGEST MUSLIM POP IN THE WORLD.(THIS IS JUST A SIDE NOTE) We have not convinced the world or the US or UK public that Saddam has the means to deliver weapons of mass destruction to either of us. HOW MANY MORE LIVES HAVE TO BE LOST BEFORE THE WORLD NEEDS CONVINCING? FOOL ME ONCE YOUR LOSS, FOOL ME TWICE IT IS MY LOSS. SADDAM HAS FOOLED US AND THE UN 17 TIMES AND AVOIDED UN INSPECTIONS FOR 12 YEARS! ISNT THAT LONG ENOUGH A TIME? WHAT DOES THAT MAKE US OUT TO BE? A large percentage of the Islamic world of 1 billion people will perceive any action with out the UN approval as an attack on Islam. AGAIN THIS IS A CASE OF DOING THE RIGHT THING. IF WE STOP ACTION BECAUSE OF A FEAR OF WHAT THE ISLAMIC WORLD WILL THINK OR DO, HOW DOES THAT REFLECT ON OUR DHARMA? Terrorism will probably get worse. Gandhi, if he were still alive, would be pleading with us to wait. YES AND CHRIST SAID ‘RESIST NOT EVIL’ AND RAMAKRISHNA SAID ‘HISS BUT DO NOT BITE’ ALL THESE STATEMENTS ARE DIRECTED AT THE BRAHMANAS OF THE WORLD. THOSE WHO HAVE ATTAINED TO ENLIGHTENMENT AND THOSE WHO BY NOT RESISTING EVIL WILL BENEFIT ALL OF HUMANITY. BUT TO ASK THE MASSES WHO ARE NOT ENLIGHTENED TO FOLLOW THAT EDICT IS MORALLY WRONG. IT IS OUR DUTY TO RESIST EVIL OR ELSE THE WHOLE SOCIAL FABRIC WILL COLLAPSE AND NOT ONE OF US WILL EVER GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO GAIN ENLIGHTENMENT. FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT ENLIGHTENED, TO RESIST EVIL IS BENEFITING HUMANITY. As long as inspections are going on, Saddam will not be able to develop weapons efficiently and he seems to be contained. Let us get evidence enough to prove to the world that there is a real threat, then we can then get the UN Security Council to act as a world protector, even if we (US & UK) must do the dirty work. War should be the last resort. Could the US and the UK convince the Arab leaders to work with Saddam to avert war? Can't we wait a little longer? When we have hostage situation, we found that if we contain the situation and wait it out, it often comes to a beneficial ending, with culprits either dead or in custody, the hostages unharmed and little or no collateral damage. This also worked against the Communist Block. SUCH MEASURES AS CONTAINMENT WORKS FOR A WHILE. BUT TERRORISM IS A WHOLLY DIFFERENT BALL GAME. IT STRIKES WITHOUT WARNING, IT STRIKES WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT AND TERRORISTS DO NOT DECLARE WAR, THEY HURT WITHOUT LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ATTACK. COMMUNISM WAS NEVER CHALLENGED ONLY BECAUSE THE THREAT OF NUCLEAR WAR WAS TOO CATASTROPHIC. IF SADDAM IS ALLOWED TO CARRY ON HIS GAME, HE TOO WILL POSSESS NUCLEAR ARMS. AND YOU WRITE OF LITTLE OR NO COLLATERAL DAMAGE. SADDAM HAS ALREADY HARMED AND CONTINUES TO HARM HIS OWN BRETHREN HIS RELATIVES HAVE BEEN MAIMED AND KILLED, HIS CITIZENS HAVE BEEN ROUTINELY TORTURED AND EXECUTED. IS THAT ITSELF NOT CAUSE ENOUGH TO ACT NOW? IF NOT NOW, WHEN, IF NOT AMERICA WHOM? WHO ELSE IS STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE ACTION UNILATERALLY. I FOR ONE AM GLAD THAT AMERICA IS STRONG ENOUGH TO GO IT ALONE! It seems that George Bush is acting on pure emotion and not with a rational mind. He is in too much of a hurry. (The 2004 election is probably the reason for the hurry.) THAT IS A WEAK ARGUMENT I HEAR. THROUGHOUT HISTORY, LEADERS WHO HAVE TAKEN TO WAR HAVE INVARIABLY BEEN VOTED OUT OF OFFICE IN DEMOCRACIES, INCLUDING WINSTON CHURCHILL WHO WAS UNCEREMONIOUSLY BOOTED OUT AFTER WW II. BUSH, I AM SURE IS NOT IGNORANT OF THIS. HE IS ACTING OUT OF MORE THAN JUST MERE POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY. I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN OR RIGHT WING, BUT I AM SURPRISED THAT THERE ARE SOME WHO WOULD RATHER GIVE SADDAM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND MORE TIME THAN TRUST THEIR OWN PRESIDENT. It seems to me that the only way to get his attention is to tell him that we either don't want war or that we must wait for the UN and just outlast Saddam. Maybe if those who just don't want any wars join up with those who want to give containment, inspections and diplomacy a chance, we can get the attention of our president and get him to stop acting like a cowboy with a burr in his saddle. I remember World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War. I say, lets use war as a last resort and let the UN make the decision. I also believe that North Korea is a greater threat and must be dealt with. I RESPECT YOUR VALUE FOR PEACE AND I SHARE YOUR HORROR OF WAR, BUT THERE ARE INSTANCES WHEN WAR IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. SADDAM HUSSEIN IS WHAT I WOULD CALL AT A LEVEL LOWER THAN AN ASURA , HE IS A RAKSHASA. HE SHOULD BE DEALT WITH ACCORDING TO HIS WORLDVIEW, WITHOUT WHICH WE WILL NOT BE DOING OUR DUTY. ANY REASON THAT SHIRKS FROM FIGHTING HIM IS , I BELIEVE, NOT DHARMA. namaste and pranaams jairam _______________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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