Guest guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Dear Dhananjay, I liked your answer. It was very thoughtful and loving. I often feel bad for people that hurt me for that very reason. Sometimes, I feel that I just expect more of some people, and so I have a very hard time in that case. You also said if one is good to others, then others would be good to them, and I basically agree with that. When I find I am good to others, and I am dumped on by someone, I begin to think that it was something I did in a past life, that I was once like that very person who hurt me. And I ask myself why I drew such a person into my life, what lesson do I have to learn? Most of the time when I have been hurt by others, it has been due to their own psychological problems, and that is plain to me, and so I feel bad for them and allow them to continue in my life with the grand idea that I can help them. What an ego trip. But I am doing my best now to stop doing so. I can understand the idea of " saluting from afar " as being applied to a dangerous person, but I noticed that Sri Ramakrishna also used it in the case of the man who just had problems with someone, and this person would not work them out with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Dear Amba, Dhananjay and others, Having read some of these letters from Amaba and Dhananjay, there is something that I would like to add for the benefit of all who are reading these letters. Lets not forget the story of the hermit snake that is also one of the parable of Sri Ramakrishna. The story in short goes like this: A snake living under a big Banayan tree once asked a sage how it could improve its life. The sage advised that the snake should try not to attack others. The snake took the advice quite seriously and would not attack or hiss at anybody. Taking this advantage, some mischevious children would quite often beat up the snake as it did not retaliate at all. Due to this the snake had become very weak and almost dying. Next time when the sage came to visit the snake he was horrified at what he saw and asked the reason for his condition. The snake replied humbly that due to the advice of the sage, it did not retaliate when it was attacked. Hearing this the sage said that he had asked the snake not to attack, but he had not forbidden the snake to 'hiss' when required to protect itself. The morale of the story is that, when we encounter such people who time and time again take advantage of us being forgiving and purposely hurt us, we should stand up to them and stop them. If you keep forgiving them for all their wrong actions again and again, they start assuming that it is ok to hurt you and perceive you to be weak. So it is important that you stand up to such wrong actions ('hiss') and make the other person realize that you are not weak and would not forgive their wrong actions again and again. It is also important that you should be physically, mentally and emotionally be strong and prepaired to confront them if required. Only if you stand up so strongly, will the other person take notice of you and stop perceiving you to be a weak. Your forgiving nature should not at any cost be perceived by others as a weak nature. Ability to forgive others is a gift of God and not all human beings are able to forgive easily. But it is also important that others do not take advantage of your forgiving nature. Therefore, we don't need to attack, but there is no harm in 'hissing' if required. Thankyou, Mandira amba2200 [jessakaslade] Monday, August 25, 2003 10:16 PM Ramakrishna [sri Ramakrishna] Re: Mesg from Dhananjay on forgiveness Dear Dhananjay, I liked your answer. It was very thoughtful and loving. I often feel bad for people that hurt me for that very reason. Sometimes, I feel that I just expect more of some people, and so I have a very hard time in that case. You also said if one is good to others, then others would be good to them, and I basically agree with that. When I find I am good to others, and I am dumped on by someone, I begin to think that it was something I did in a past life, that I was once like that very person who hurt me. And I ask myself why I drew such a person into my life, what lesson do I have to learn? Most of the time when I have been hurt by others, it has been due to their own psychological problems, and that is plain to me, and so I feel bad for them and allow them to continue in my life with the grand idea that I can help them. What an ego trip. But I am doing my best now to stop doing so. I can understand the idea of " saluting from afar " as being applied to a dangerous person, but I noticed that Sri Ramakrishna also used it in the case of the man who just had problems with someone, and this person would not work them out with him. Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.vivekananda.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Hello Amba, Thanks for your kind reply. The only thing for which I am not with you is regarding, links with deeds in previous birth. I really donot find any reason why one should believe in the reasoning of previous birth. It would be very kind of you if you can throw some light on it. take care, dhananjay. ===== ______________ " Learning " is finding out what you already know " Doing " is demonstrating that you know " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. -Bach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Hello Dear interested Readers, It was indeed a very practical aspect that Mandira put forth in this discussion. Its true that life is very important, but there are certain examples in the history that some of the very well known saints had to give up their lives in this same way. But if you pause for a moment, and give it a thought, you will feel that had they resorted to " hissing " it would not have ruined the motives in their lives. they made their words bigger than themselves by this sacrifice. IT INDEED WORTH IT. to get to some 'SAFE' examples, it doesnt siut an elephant to get after the dogs barking at it. It hardly in good terms of a CEO to quarrel with a worker. So, if the 'hissing' option happens to be the first card, then there are chances that one plays it at wrong place only to get a setback to ones long term goals. Usually the shortest, safest and suitable responce is what one resorts to. practically it is very unlikely that one can make the ideal choice with these constrains. But one is more unhappy for inappopriately using the hissing option than the happiness which one gains from safeguarding oneself by using it. Again I would like to apologize for the my limited perspectives. take care, dhananjay. ===== ______________ " Learning " is finding out what you already know " Doing " is demonstrating that you know " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. -Bach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 hi everybody, I have been in this group for a long time but not active at any moment. I was in search of a job. Now i got it. It's only because of all my friends who gave their valuable support to achieve it. As far the discussion regarding forgiveness i see variuos people explaining their opinions. I would also like to join this discussion with a few points from my side. I hope forgiveness comes to picture only when you remember bad things in your mind. Who ever hurts you it does no sense retaliating immediately its just a respond to stimulus sort of thing. If somebody really hurts (which i mean here are those people to whom you have been with) i feel in a different manner. You have to play a major role in understanding their problems what makes them to do so. I beleive all are like me so if you register this in your mind then there comes no thoughts about forgiving and all. It may be like that they are pushed to such situation which finally ends in hurting people. So as such we have to find a way to eliminate the problems that they are having, instead of thinking about whether to forgive them or not. And also i feel that nobody in this world doesnt do anything purposely to hurt somebody. It may be a reflection from them becaz you would have done something harm to them which you may not have thought at all. If that happens with a stranger even there you dont have to protect urself, better try to come out of that place, this world has got lots and lots of people spread over with interesting characters so spend your time in reaching those people than thinking on these petty things. Becz when u react to them it is never going to stop there is that what we want?. No not at all. We are here to like and love people not to cultivate any sort of nonsense. You think even more broader than getting into deeper. _ Meet your old school or college friends from 1 Million + database... Click here to reunite www.batchmates.com/rediff.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Dear Amba, I fully agree with you when you talk about past lives. We often notice we take intense liking to a person who may be a total stranger. And then you may have to bear with an irritable or positively harmful relative. Moreover the theory of karma suggests that the situations we find ourselves in s shaped by events in past lives. This knowledge should encourage us to always remain positive so that we do not suffer in future. Once a person was served a sentence for life imprisonment though his close relatives knew he was innocent. When The Mother of Pondicherry was consulted she narrated the incident in his previous life which led to the present predicament. But does this experience reduce our guilt when we commit a mistake? No. And it should not. Explain away your problems but don't do that with your mistakes. Correct them. Regards Jagannath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 Dear Dhananjay, I believe in past lifes and karma from past lives affecting what happens to us in this life, but I think another Vedanta member would be better at explaining this one. In the Lord, Amba Ramakrishna , dhananjay <dhananjaytambe> wrote: > Hello Amba, > > Thanks for your kind reply. The only thing for which I > am not with you is regarding, links with deeds in > previous birth. I really donot find any reason why one > should believe in the reasoning of previous birth. It > would be very kind of you if you can throw some light > on it. > > take care, > dhananjay. > > ===== > > ______________ > > " Learning " is finding out what you already know > " Doing " is demonstrating that you know > " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. > -Bach > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Ramakrishna , " amba2200 " <jessakaslade@e...> wrote: > I believe in past lifes and karma from past lives affecting what > happens to us in this life, > > Ramakrishna , dhananjay <dhananjaytambe> > wrote: > > Hello Amba, > > > > Thanks for your kind reply. The only thing for which I > > am not with you is regarding, links with deeds in > > previous birth. I really donot find any reason why one > > should believe in the reasoning of previous birth. It > > would be very kind of you if you can throw some light > > on it. Namaste, Perhaps this dialogue may be helpful as an answer: http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Dear Dhananjay, It is still a very hard question for me to answer. Why I came to believe in reincarnation was a long process, through much reading and understanding, and this, years before I came to Vedanta, and so I would rather that someone who understands the teachings better than I would answer your question. While I don't believe that everything that happens to a person in this life is a result of his past life actions, I do believe that " You reap what you sow, " and so if you have not reaped the results of your actions in this life, you will in the next. And yet most karma can be erased in this life through the vision of God, and so one can become liberated from the cycle of rebirth because of this. But what about those who don't know God, who for whatever reason just cannot accept Him in this life? Or who do not hold the same beliefs as another person who feels that only those in his religion can go to heaven? Often I hear people say, If you don't believe in God the way I do, even if you love Him, you are going to hell, or you are going to seize to exist after you die? But I don't believe that God is interested in dogma, but only in our love for Him and for others. I have also had people tell me that the belief in reincarnation is cruel, that all you have to do is become saved. And I, personally, don't feel that it is cruel; instead I find this law to loving and just. Most people in any given lifetime cannot come to an acceptance of God. What happens to them? In many religions they are lost in some form of eternal damnation, and yet they could very well be very good people, and even if they aren't, I don't believe that any one person's actions in the 80 or so years that he/she has lived on this earth, merits their being punished or annihilated forever. And I believe that God desires all of us to be saved, because He loves us all, and I believe that God gets what he desires. But other than this, I would suggest that you read books on reincarnation and then come to your own conclusions, because we all have the right to our own beliefs. I don't know what your faith is, but I know from my own readings that even the early Christians believed in reincarnation, and this belief is found in some parts of the Bible. But even with that, many will read those same scriptures in the Bible and see them differently than I, and that is okay, too. Ramakrishna , " amba2200 " <jessakaslade@e...> wrote: > > Dear Dhananjay, > > I believe in past lifes and karma from past lives affecting what > happens to us in this life, but I think another Vedanta member would > be better at explaining this one. > > In the Lord, > > Amba > > > > > Ramakrishna , dhananjay <dhananjaytambe> > wrote: > > Hello Amba, > > > > Thanks for your kind reply. The only thing for which I > > am not with you is regarding, links with deeds in > > previous birth. I really donot find any reason why one > > should believe in the reasoning of previous birth. It > > would be very kind of you if you can throw some light > > on it. > > > > take care, > > dhananjay. > > > > ===== > > > > ______________ > > > > " Learning " is finding out what you already know > > " Doing " is demonstrating that you know > > " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. > > -Bach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 well instead of believing in the past birth karmaas , i believe that our present birth karmaas give us the fruits in this life itself and we don't have to wait till the next life to see the fruits. i am trying to find a justification for the past life . i believe that we are bubbles of consciousness who come to physical form all of a sudden one fine day and don't have much control over it.jagdish Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote:--- In Ramakrishna , " amba2200 " <jessakaslade@e...> wrote: > I believe in past lifes and karma from past lives affecting what > happens to us in this life, > > Ramakrishna , dhananjay <dhananjaytambe> > wrote: > > Hello Amba, > > > > Thanks for your kind reply. The only thing for which I > > am not with you is regarding, links with deeds in > > previous birth. I really donot find any reason why one > > should believe in the reasoning of previous birth. It > > would be very kind of you if you can throw some light > > on it. Namaste, Perhaps this dialogue may be helpful as an answer: http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2003 Report Share Posted August 30, 2003 Dear Amba, Sunder and all Interested Readers, It was very kind of Amba and Sunder the way they put forth their views. I really appreciate it. The very aspect that baffles my faith in previous birth philosophy is pointed out in Ambas' reply. I would also like to add to that point by acknowledging some of the prevailing beliefs. If one believes that there is some super power which controls your actions and you are just a medium through which all the things take place. In addition, pain and happiness are just illusionary feelings in which mankind is engrossed which lets the superpower carry out its work. Also this " so called " good and bad, according to our classification of events, leads to continuation of life form on earth. Now this philosophy is quite distinctive from free will and fate philosophy. The believers of this view also say that the realization of this superpower can be had only by the blessed few. There might be more such beliefs which endup at conclusions which needs complete dedication for a long span of time to realize it. The only point which I am not convinced with it, as pointed out in Ambas' mail, all the philosophies have some " faiths " which are exclusive in nature. But certain undebatable arguments can be applied to each of them for their validity. All of these might be due the human nature to seek for determinism in each and every aspect that he/she can sense. (that is why quantum mechanics is maddening ) I sincerely apologize for my naive thoughts. take care, dhananjay. ===== ______________ " Learning " is finding out what you already know " Doing " is demonstrating that you know " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. -Bach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Dear Dhananjay, You said: " all the philosophies have some " faiths " which are > exclusive in nature. But certain undebatable arguments > can be applied to each of them for their validity. " What I was basically referring to was the different dogmas in various religions, and if you take away the dogmas, you have basic truths in all religions. It is these truths that I rely upon. One such truth is loving God and your neighbor, which is in all religions. Another that I discovered recently was that even Christ taught that we are all God, and that heaven is not up there but is inside of us. This is a basic Hindu and Buddhist belief too. So basically what I am saying is, when we reach higher states of consciousness and tune into God, then we all have the same beliefs, which is, we are God and heaven is within us. Ramakrishna , dhananjay <dhananjaytambe> wrote: > Dear Amba, Sunder and all Interested Readers, > > It was very kind of Amba and Sunder the way they put > forth their views. I really appreciate it. The very > aspect that baffles my faith in previous birth > philosophy is pointed out in Ambas' reply. > > I would also like to add to that point by > acknowledging some of the prevailing beliefs. If one > believes that there is some super power which controls > your actions and you are just a medium through which > all the things take place. In addition, pain and > happiness are just illusionary feelings in which > mankind is engrossed which lets the superpower carry > out its work. Also this " so called " good and bad, > according to our classification of events, leads to > continuation of life form on earth. > > Now this philosophy is quite distinctive from free > will and fate philosophy. The believers of this view > also say that the realization of this superpower can > be had only by the blessed few. > > There might be more such beliefs which endup at > conclusions which needs complete dedication for a long > span of time to realize it. The only point which I am > not convinced with it, as pointed out in Ambas' mail, > > All of these might be due the human nature to seek for > determinism in each and every aspect that he/she can > sense. (that is why quantum mechanics is maddening ) > > I sincerely apologize for my naive thoughts. > > take care, > dhananjay. > > ===== > > ______________ > > " Learning " is finding out what you already know > " Doing " is demonstrating that you know > " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. > -Bach > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Dhananjay: In my understanding, all the Indian philosophies preach the same thing: Purification of mind, thought and action to reach either a higher being or a higher state, wherein any Dukha will not be felt. So cessation of Dukha is the main goal of Human Life. Unless a person has faith in this, or feels a need for this, he / she is liable to get confused over the different tenants of Indian Philosophies. Sri Sri Sarada Devi, when reminiscing about Sri Ramakrishna, noted that one of the main striking features of his life was the absence of Dukha. The supposed presence of Free will, in my understanding, is the urge in us for this Dukha free state. As Sri Ramana Maharishi, states, instead of worrying too much over the cause and effect of the Free Will and the presence of Divine Intervention or Karma (past, present and future), if we are able to reach this Dukha free state, then all answers will be available. You are very right in comparing this with frustrations of Quantum Physics... But is we move it from Theoretical to Practical Physics, then Quantum Physics also will start making more sense. Pranams, Swaminathan Ramakrishna wrote: Dear Amba, Sunder and all Interested Readers, It was very kind of Amba and Sunder the way they put forth their views. I really appreciate it. The very aspect that baffles my faith in previous birth philosophy is pointed out in Ambas' reply. I would also like to add to that point by acknowledging some of the prevailing beliefs. If one believes that there is some super power which controls your actions and you are just a medium through which all the things take place. In addition, pain and happiness are just illusionary feelings in which mankind is engrossed which lets the superpower carry out its work. Also this " so called " good and bad, according to our classification of events, leads to continuation of life form on earth. Now this philosophy is quite distinctive from free will and fate philosophy. The believers of this view also say that the realization of this superpower can be had only by the blessed few. There might be more such beliefs which endup at conclusions which needs complete dedication for a long span of time to realize it. The only point which I am not convinced with it, as pointed out in Ambas' mail, all the philosophies have some " faiths " which are exclusive in nature. But certain undebatable arguments can be applied to each of them for their validity. All of these might be due the human nature to seek for determinism in each and every aspect that he/she can sense. (that is why quantum mechanics is maddening ) I sincerely apologize for my naive thoughts. take care, dhananjay. ===== ______________ " Learning " is finding out what you already know " Doing " is demonstrating that you know " Teaching " is reminding others that they know just as well as you. -Bach Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.vivekananda.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Dear Amba, With the following quote you have hit the nail right on the head. The truth is really so simple. Only fools (and politicians) fight in the name of religion. Let us imagine a situation where Krishna, Jesus and Mohammed come together. What do you expect them to do? Fight? Never! They would embrace each other with love and merge into one entity. Sometimes I go mad thinking that why don't people realise this simple fact? But then perhaps the Lord wants it this way and if all people unite then maya would lose its grip on this world. Regards Jagannath. amba2200 <jessakaslade wrote: What I was basically referring to was the different dogmas in various religions, and if you take away the dogmas, you have basic truths in all religions. It is these truths that I rely upon. One such truth is loving God and your neighbor, which is in all religions. Another that I discovered recently was that even Christ taught that we are all God, and that heaven is not up there but is inside of us. This is a basic Hindu and Buddhist belief too. So basically what I am saying is, when we reach higher states of consciousness and tune into God, then we all have the same beliefs, which is, we are God and heaven is within us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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