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The Divine and the Flesh....

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I find myself torn in the rift between the eternal and the

ephemeral. My one eye is fixed on the divine, the other flutters to

the flesh. That seems to be the story of my life so far. It wouldn't

have mattered if this didn't impede that, but it seems to, for some

strange reason. I wouldn't mind if I looked to the flesh in the

spirit of renunciation, already knowing its temporality, but there

seems to be a dialectic which is set up here, almost like the two

pans of the balance and it is up to me to place myself where I

choose to, because this brings that down and that brings this down.

The grasp of the finite sensual world is strong. It takes a strong

mind to negate it. Not to negate it, because it is bad or evil.

Negate it to know that you can negate it. The pleasures of the

avaricious mind and the flesh seems to constitute our subjectivity

to the extent that just to refrain and locate oneself in the Self

has become such a struggle.

 

 

I am earnestly asking everyone here, has anyone in here been through

this same thing and been able to negotiate it? Lust and money is the

strongest pull within this temporary world and any earnest spiritual

endeavor should have both under control....Any advice? I am not

looking for ideas like 'accept it, its part of being human'. Not

even advice, if you want to relate how things went for you, that

would be wonderful enough....

 

****

 

Sing ye, O mountains, O clouds, O great winds!

Sing ye, sing ye, sing His glory!

Sing with joy, all ye suns and moons and stars!

Sing ye, sing ye, His glory!

 

***

 

Thy God is here before thee now,

Revealed in all these myriad forms:

Rejecting them, where seekest thou

His presence? He who freely shares

His love with every living thing

Proffers true service unto God.

 

- Swami Vivekananda

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Pranam to All,

 

Sri Sudeesh, very interesting query indeed. I must say you boldly not only

brought this subject out but also asked for others' experiences. Let me give my

small ideas/experiences...

 

My close friend and myself (both are men) who are about same age of around

25yrs, mostly discuss this subject( " involuntarily " ). We are currently based at

US and have to encounter people (esp in summer --because of hot weather) that

rouses our animal instincts to a great extent. Even if we restrain our minds,

the images that we see during the day flash sometime later at the most

unexpected time. They appear during meditation, thinking about what to cook/read

etc. I especially have a terrible time during the nights when I go to bed alone.

I get bizzare (untalkable in this forum) dreams etc. Swamiji in the Center near

our place says that we must guard ourselves very well before we sleep. Thats why

its good to do prayer/meditation before going to bed so that we are in a right

frame of mind.

During the day-time also it is good to keep thinking of God as much as possible

esp. when the object before you disturbs you. Its hard initially, but with

practice this can be done. And this helps to an extent as I try to chant the

name of God whenever I see anything that disturbs my mind. Ofcourse its still

better to chant incessantly throughout the day. That needs more rigorous

practice.

Also its better to avoid as much as possible idle gossip talk/sights that

disturb our equi-animity. This is a convenient way of mind to find some kind of

vent to give out its tendencies. By indulging in such talk we actually begin to

think about such issues more and hence invite more trouble. Hence from now on my

friend and myself stopped talking frequently to each other so that we can

practice sadhana effectively without indulging in loose talk. My friend

says... " Do whatever you want. And then after you have satiated your mind

temporarily, again begin concentrating on God alone. " So how does this sound to

others?

 

I have a question to seniors in this group. Is this true that sexual-drive and

lustful feelings dont drop away " naturally " as we grow older? Adi Shankaracharya

in his famous " Bhajgovindam " said that desires never leave us even if we have a

decrepit body. I thought because of greater hormonal activity in youth we have

more sexual urges than elderly people. Hence it is more diffcult to control such

passions in youth than in later stages. So please let me know if the elders in

this gorup find that in their youth they had to fight these things more

vigorously than now. I dont want to fight my whole life on such issues.

 

I gave my small understanding/experience. I am sure there are knowledgeable and

experience people in this group to throw more light on this issue.

 

Jai Sri Ramakrishna

 

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

 

 

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Sudeesh,

 

The question you have asked is something I always find myself trying

to get an answer for. I am 21 years old and studying in US and what

Mr. Srikanth has mentioned is exactly what I go through myself

everyday. It was as if he was narrating my story and I too tried the

exact same things like chanting God's name when getting distracted

but nothing worked for me. Although I am not even close to

conquering these " instincts " that Mr. Srikanth has mentioned, there

are somethings I have concluded and would love to share with you.

 

There are moments when I get extremely inspired when I read

someone's comments on this group or books like Siddhartha by Herman

Hesse ( which I think you must read if you haven't already. It is

available online on this link http://www.online-

literature.com/hesse/siddhartha/) . But that eventually fades away

because we are living in a world where we are constanlty open to

negative influences. When we see television or listen to music there

are several things that erode our spirituality. I have lived with

some of the nicest roommates that one can find. They treat me like a

younger brother and make sure that I eat first before they do. But

still they are fully indulging in those sensual pleasure that I am

trying to get away from. It is almost impossible to find true

satsangha that we are looking for. The simple conclusion of all this

is that we have to eliminate each and every influence out of our

lives that makes us weak. There is no way around it. If you think

watching television causes distraction, stop watching. If you have

to live like a hermit in thousands of people, so be it. We are

scared to do all these things becasue we think we might miss out on

something, knowing well that it is not true.

We need to control our senses becasue they cause the mind to get

excited. Today morning I was in one of the most healthiest states of

mind I had ever been and also had a very crucial exam that I had to

do well on. It was very hard and I barely managed to complete it on

time and as a result I found myself completely uneasy. I was

thinking about it over and over again and was feeling very restless.

When I came out of the examination hall I again started getting

distracted in the same manner as Mr. Srikanth has described. An

excited mind is very quick to hang onto distractions so I had to go

to a quiet place and relax down before doing anything else.

 

Silencing the mind is the only way and you can do that by meditation

and completely removing harmful influence from your daily life. It

is very tough to implement what I said and I don't boast on having

done that. It is extremely hard but I think we don't realize the

strength of the will each of us possess. Let us all give this will a

chance and I know together all of us will achieve our goals.

 

Regards,

 

Siddharth Panwar

 

 

 

We are currently based at US and have to encounter people (esp in

summer --because of hot weather) that rouses our animal instincts to

a great extent. Even if we restrain our minds, the images that we

see during the day flash sometime later at the most unexpected time.

They appear during meditation, thinking about what to cook/read etc.

I especially have a terrible time during the nights when I go to bed

alone. I get bizzare (untalkable in this forum) dreams etc.

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Sudheesh,

 

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA

 

At once I was facing quite similar situation as you

are facing now, I came to London when I was thirteen

from Sri Lanka. Until my age of 22, I was living with

my religious family and I went to a Hindu Temple

regularly and sang Bhajans and so on I was able to

keep my self in balance. But things went wrong when I

went to live in a University Hostel to do my Masters

Degree far away from my home. As friends in the hostel

were white-English totally worldly-minded. They always

went to night clubs, pubs and got drunk and brought

new women. They even sort of calling me an IDIOT when

they saw pictures of Hindu gods in my room and refused

to go to night clubs or associate with women, as you

can imagine they are totally instinct (Animal men) and

they worship nothing but the feet of football players.

However lots of evil thoughts entered my mind and I

was having evil dreams which made me totally sick.I

was really depressed and confused,I was questioning

myself what is the meaning of life (work, eat, drink,

mate and then die)?, am I body, mind or something

else?, Do I exist after death?, Is God really exist?,

and lots of other question.

 

But there was a great turning point in my life when I

went to buy a book in London for my Project and I saw

the book " Sayings Of Sri Ramakrishna " , I immediately

felt that I wanted to buy the book, at the time I did

not know anything about his teachings but I heard of

him as the guru of Swami Vivekananda before. I began

reading his divine sayings over and over again as they

were the true answers to my questions. I thought of

his sayings for a few days and all of a sudden

something deep within me picked up the message and I

could notice some physical changes happening in my

body (I felt like my body was burning), I lost my body

consciousness and I became nearly desireless.I did not

feel any hunger, thirsty and I did hardly sleep, this

went on for about 25 days, day and night just gone

very quickly, but I was very happy uncondionally.

Luckly it was vacation time so I did not have to go to

lessons, but my exams approched and I could not study

at all. So I worshipped my personal God and my divine

guru ramakrishna for regaining some maya, about four

days later I regained my body consciousness fully and

with some desires, but I felt like a new person as my

characters changed, I could not even thing of eating

non-vegetarian food, I could not find women

attractive, I could hardly feel angry,greedy or

jealousy. It took me nearly three months to understand

my new character. Now I have total control over my

instinct body, I could resist almost any external

temptations.

 

 

" If a person possessed by an evil spirit becomes

conscious that he is so possessed, the evil spirit at

once leaves him. Similarly the Jiva which is possessed

by the evil spirit of Maya, on realising that he is so

possessed, becomes at once free from it. "

 

" Knowledge leads to unity; ignorance to diversity "

 

Source :Sayings of Sri Ramakrishna

 

 

Sri Ramakrishnaye Namah

Vivekananda Centre London

http://www.vivekananda.co.uk

 

 

 

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Hi Sudheesh and others,

 

I appreciate you all for coming out so frankly on a

topic very few dare to discuss.

 

A few thoughts from my side on this:

 

- As Mamta said, food plays a very important role. Cut

out spicy food and it will help you a lot.

 

- Sometimes, I try to think this way : " Any person in

this world, even with the most beautiful bodies, will

have to die one day...and the body has to be become

ash... or become mixed with earth.... so why to hanker

after this ?? "

 

- Also " a body however beautiful it is , may become

disfigured (accidents etc) or diseased any time and

ofcourse eventually become old and sick sometime "

 

- Also think (rather feel) of the body as something

separate from you...Its an instrument given to you for

achieving something...Its just an outer covering of a

great inside you...

 

- Also fill your mind (and time) with some activity so

that you wont have any space (or leisure) left for

these kind of things...For example, great scientists,

anywhere in the world, when completely absorbed in

their activites, do not think of anything else...

 

- Also these things will take time depending on our

capacity and past samskara...So do not be in a

hurry..or be depressed...Swamiji said " Everything

shall come in time " ...Do what you can and leave the

rest to God...So do not worry too much...Have fun and

keep smiling...

 

Hope these will be of some use...

 

Regards,

Prasad.

 

 

--- sudheesh_s <sudheesh007 wrote:

 

 

 

 

Tax Center - File online by April 15th

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Following message received from M R Roy ....We had to edit the tail ends

out.

We request the members to ensure that they remove tail end of

earlier message before forwarding them to the whole list...............jay

 

 

-

" M R Roy " <mrr

<Ramakrishna >

Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:18

RE: [sri Ramakrishna] The Divine and the Flesh....

 

 

> Indeed, it is difficult for me to be far away from this material world.

> Because we live, breathe, listen ,see and pic'turize everything around us.

> Leave the sex alone, I am struggling

> every morning not to sub merge my passion in official duties, swim and

> drown. I read and read again the books on Sri Sri Thakur every evening

and

> again I try,in the early morning, to be away to Dakhineshwar. Alas, in a

> minute away, I tend to loose this sacred thought.

> You see, right now, my mind is hovering around your quest for perfection

> and far away from all these law books. So, inner feeling is in me to

think,

> speak, read and see THAKUR,Sri Sri MA , Vivekananda AND HIS HOLY WORLD.

> What this holy-man had said in 1882 -1897 or earlier, is absolute true

in

> to-day's world, be it about , relation with great soul, selection of

people,

> administration, spreading message, religion, philosophy and what not.

>

> Jai Sri Sri Thakur,

>

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