America: The Maya Machine

[Guest guest]

Dear jay:

 

Thanks for calling a spade a spade! Not only the UK, but it looks like the USA

is winning the war of ideas vs. our spiritual homeland: India. Not only from the

images I see of Indian cities, but whenever I come across an Indian during my

business day here in the USA, invariably they are a Christian, engrossed in the

" American Dream " - - a good metaphor for Maya! However, they always show a

degree of fascination with my Vedantic spirituality. (Nothing wrong, of course,

with Christ's teachings - it's just the perversion they undergo when " organized

religion " gets ahold of them! Christians here equate America's economic success

with spiritual success, i.e., God is blessing us because we believe in Christ.

Our presiden Bush is a prime example of Western Christianity -- a very scary

thought . . .)

 

It would sure be great to see a spiritual renaissance arising from Britian (or

from anywhere) - - but I'm afraid it's going to take another Avatar to get us to

lift our hearts and minds out of Maya . . .

 

Jai Ramakrishna,

Brad

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Many Hindus overemphasize the concept of Avtar.God is

the supreme spirit and does not need any Avtar to work

his ways with us. It is not possible to prove the

concept of Avtar. This is one example where religion

and philosophy part ways. Philosophy, for example says

Bramha( God ) is Existence, Consiousness and Bliss. IN

sanskrit, it is : satyam Jnanam Anantam Bramha. The

message is to go within ourselves and realize " who we

are " , the concept of self-realization. The concept of

Avtar assumes that God is apart from you and descends

to the earth to work his ways.

 

--- Brad Stephan <brad wrote:

> Dear jay:

>

>

> >

> Jai Ramakrishna,

> Brad

>

>

> >

>

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Brad,

 

I am presently staying in Santa Clara, CA and visit the Vedanta Society in

San Fransisco. My experience has been exactly opposite to yours. Indians

here in the bay area are proud of their spiritual and cultural heritage and

we " make an attempt " to follow it. We clearly distinguish between the

material success and spiritual success. One of my classmates (from Sri

Ramakrishna Mission school Mysore) is involved in classes for popularizing

spoken Sanskrit twice or thrice every week. Apart from that my collegues try

to understand things related to India like the religions, culture, cricket

etc. The other day on public radio, in response to a question from an

Indian, on what makes american civilization a success externally and do they

consider it a success the speaker replied that its probably the resources

and went on to acknowledge that spiritually the eastern cultures like Indian

has gone inwards and the western outwards and it can be a success only when

both are balanced. These were an echo of Swami Vivekanandas words.

 

In India spiritual work goes on silently. There are several programs like

retreats or sunday schools conducted by Ramakrishna mission, Ramayana and

Mahabharata competition conducted by Ram mandir in the neighbhourhood.

Spirituality is a part and parcel of Indian life. You take the name of god

when you eat, sleep, turn in your sleep, in your troubles or do your studies

in your school. You can hear the women saying " Ayyo rama rama rama " in their

troubles. There may not be much formal learning about the trinity. But,

people still breathe spirituality. It is not possible for the whole mass to

wake up and start meditating or learn everything in the Upanishads.

 

regards,

--Sunil

 

> " Brad Stephan " <brad

>Ramakrishna

> " The Ramakrishna List " <ramakrishna >

>[sri Ramakrishna] America: The Maya Machine

>Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:06:35 -0700

>

>Dear jay:

>

>Thanks for calling a spade a spade! Not only the UK, but it looks like the

>USA is winning the war of ideas vs. our spiritual homeland: India. Not only

>from the images I see of Indian cities, but whenever I come across an

>Indian during my business day here in the USA, invariably they are a

>Christian, engrossed in the " American Dream " - - a good metaphor for Maya!

>However, they always show a degree of fascination with my Vedantic

>spirituality. (Nothing wrong, of course, with Christ's teachings - it's

>just the perversion they undergo when " organized religion " gets ahold of

>them! Christians here equate America's economic success with spiritual

>success, i.e., God is blessing us because we believe in Christ. Our

>presiden Bush is a prime example of Western Christianity -- a very scary

>thought . . .)

>

>It would sure be great to see a spiritual renaissance arising from Britian

>(or from anywhere) - - but I'm afraid it's going to take another Avatar to

>get us to lift our hearts and minds out of Maya . . .

>

>Jai Ramakrishna,

>Brad

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

SUNIL'S COMMENTS ARE QUITE POSITIVE IN DEED. I also

live in America whre HIndus are doing a lot of work on

religion. In fact, many of our children have a better

exposure to Hinduism here than what many INdians in

India have. It is very sad that the INdian youth are

blindly imitating the western ways by thinking that if

they have to look " cool " , they need to frequent night

clubs, watch the INdian MTV, get drunk and speak

English and ignore Indian languages. Here in the USA,

there are many programs for the youth and adults such

as Yoga classes, religion classes, language classes,

seminars, discussion groups and summer camps. Temples

here are not just the places where priests perform

some rituals without understanding the meaning or

expalining to devotees. Many of these temples

propagate the spiritual side of Hinduism by utilizing

active volunteer help. It is unfortunate that our

temples both in India and here don't have the priests

who can properly interpret various rituals and

ceremonies. I also feel that we need to minimize

rituals and use them just to create a proper

atmosphere for focusing our minds on God. Otherwise,

rituals simply become mechanical and you can perform

them without actually focusing on God. This is one

reason why our temples are very noisy. Priests are

doing their own things while the so-called devotees

are chattig about personal, social and family issues

and believe that all our sins will vanish if we take

the prasadam at the end! Also our temples need some

common prayers that everyone should be able to recite

together. This will bring a strong sense of unity. In

a church, I have seen people singing together and they

feel that they are involved whereas in our temples,

only the priests are involved and we are using the

priests as agents to take us to God! God must truly be

laughing at us! In the New Jersey-Pennsylvania area,

some of us, Hindu volunteers have created a program

called OMkar Religious services, to reach Hindu

studnets in universities here. Our program has a

syllabus and is a one hour program of Pooja, shanti

mantra recital, pranayam, Gayatri meditation, Om

Meditation and silent meditation, prayers and Prasad.

We also discuss a Hindu religious topic for a few

minutes. A number of college students are learning

about the basics of Hinduism and appreciate the

service becasue we are trying to explainthe meaning of

everything we do and no one has to do any thing

blindly. We , the adults should practice Hinduism so

that we can create a proper atmosphere in the family

for the younger generation to follow. Strong awareness

about preserving HIndu culture and religion are needed

so that unwanted conversions to Christianity and Islam

are minimized.

--- " Sunil V. Kuravinakoppa " <kuravinakop

wrote:

> Hello Brad,

>

> --Sunil

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil:

 

It is very encouraging to read your words. Admittedly, my exposure to Indians in

this country (USA) is extremely limited. What you described is what my older

brother described to me after spending a year in India during the early 1960's.

However, I'd be interested in hearing from others regarding how this " war of

ideas " is playing out as we enter the 21st Century. Has India caused more

Americans to go " inwards, " or has America caused more Indians to go " outwards " ?

Of course, this question must be moderated by the issue of " balance " -- but,

whenever I see a, previously non-material culture aspire toward the " outwards, "

it always appears to quite out-of-balance! With respect to India (my spiritual

homeland), it's great to see the Indian intellect excel in high technology, but

then I see the " masses " in the large cities (apparently) driven and motivated by

material desires. Would Sri Ramakrishna be pleased with the India of 2004?

 

This question of " ideas " has added urgency for us in America, as we are

currently in a " war for the hearts and minds " of the Moslem world. Of course,

our " Christian " president did not recognize that this was a war not won by

bloodshed and power, but by compassion, understanding and setting a

" Christ-like " example in our international affairs.

 

Jai Ramakrishna,

Brad

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Brad said:

 

> I'd be interested in hearing from others regarding

> how this " war of ideas " is playing out as we enter

> the 21st Century. Has India caused more Americans

> to go " inwards, " or has America caused more Indians

> to go " outwards " ?

 

My experience working in technology in the

pharmaceutical industry, and in my region,

Pennsylvania and New Jersey, where there has been a

large influx of Indians, has been mixed.

 

My Indian friends sometimes see me as an oddity,

because of my intense interest in Yoga, Vedanta, and

Ayurveda. Of the three Indians I met at my last job

(Merck), two were great devotees; three didn't care

about spirituality. The two devotees sort of kept

their religion to themselves but really opened up when

they saw my interest and passion. One devotee I met

recently said that he felt more proud of his tradition

because so many Westerners who had adopted it.

 

When I lived in Japan, most Japanese seemed amused

that I was interested in Buddhism and Zen. To them,

these were old things that weren't really interesting

for them. They have traditions (or superstitions),

like consulting the Buddhist calendar to pick a day to

get married, or holidays that are Buddhist in origin.

It wasn't something they were always conscious about.

 

When people grow up in a culture with a strong

spiritual tradition, it can be easy to take it for

granted. The pull of Maya is great, even if you are

secluded in a cave in the Himalayas. Wherever you go,

there you are. Because of our karma, we are born in

particular cultures where we must have particular

experiences.

 

If the West is too " outward " , then we have many great

Yogis, Swamis, Lamas, and Zen Masters coming from the

East to help us look inward. Many teachers came here

because there was a sincere thirst for spiritual

knowledge. If the East is too " inward " , then you need

individuals there who can use scientific knowledge to

help relieve the lack of basic material development

(clean drinking water, roads and infrastructure,

medical care, computer technology, etc.)

 

Remember, Swamiji was always keenly aware of this

imbalance and traveled tirelessly in the East and the

West to address all these issues. I think he said " How

can you preach religion to people that don't have food

in their bellies? " He also said that Indian boys would

be better served playing football then reading the

Bhagavad Gita (in order to overcome tamas).

 

Swami Rama of the Himalayas came to America to start

Yoga centers but then returned to India to complete a

first-class hospital for the poor. So you see, it's

all good. There are many ways to serve the Lord.

 

To quote Rumi, the great mystic poet:

 

Today, like every other day, we wake up empty

and frightened. Don't open the door of the study

and begin reading. Take down a musical instrument.

 

Let the beauty we love be what we do.

There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the

ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Brad,

 

Let me share some of my views.

 

1. The last sentence of your mail reminded me

of Marianne Williamson. She spoke on CNN

the same content, immediately after Sep 11.

(Compassion and no revenge etc.)

When one reads/listens to Marianne, Gary Zukav, Wayne Dyer, Deepak

etc. one tends to believe more Americans are going inward

due to both Vedanta (India) and Buddhism (Tibet, China, Japan).

 

 

2. Bearing in mind, India got its freedom after several centuries,

" going outward " had to happen due to America or otherwise.

I grew up in the 70s and still remember the after effects

of the war (1971), and famine. Over the years the pressure

has been built to improve the " material life " .

Today India is the largest producer

of milk in the world and does not import rice and wheat for

the 1 billion Indians. Surely Swami Vivekananda would have been

proud.(there are many faults/problems but we will

keep it for another discussion)

 

The desire for material success is like a compressed spring

that has over-shot after years of difficulties.

Soon it will get back to a stable level, I believe.

 

3. In the Indian cities there is also a new

interest among both the young and old

towards spiritual practices. There is a large

attendance for the workshops of

Sri Sri Ravisankar, Swami Nityananda etc.

Specifically in 2001 I remember seeing a large

number of young volunteers in RK Mutt, Madras (Chennai)

(during the opening of Universal Temple?)

Good changes are happening. They may not be happening

in a way many of us imagine, though.

 

Jai Sri Ramakrishna!

 

ramasamy

 

 

Ramakrishna , " Brad Stephan " <brad@w...> wrote:

> Dear Sunil:

Would Sri Ramakrishna be pleased with the India of 2004?

>

> This question of " ideas " has added urgency for us in America, as we

are currently in a " war for the hearts and minds " of the Moslem world.

Of course, our " Christian " president did not recognize that this was a

war not won by bloodshed and power, but by compassion, understanding

and setting a " Christ-like " example in our international affairs.

>

> Jai Ramakrishna,

> Brad

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ramakrishna , " r_ramasamy " <littleeagle@h...>

wrote:

> 2. Bearing in mind, India got its freedom after several centuries,

> " going outward " had to happen due to America or otherwise.

> I grew up in the 70s and still remember the after effects

> of the war (1971), and famine. Over the years the pressure

> has been built to improve the " material life " .

> Today India is the largest producer

> of milk in the world and does not import rice and wheat for

> the 1 billion Indians. Surely Swami Vivekananda would have been

> proud.(there are many faults/problems but we will

> keep it for another discussion)

>

> The desire for material success is like a compressed spring

> that has over-shot after years of difficulties.

> Soon it will get back to a stable level, I believe.

>

 

Hello Ramaswamy:

 

I am very glad that you are seeing the big picture (milk and

rice/wheat etc) instead of the nitty-gritty (faults/problems).

 

I can see that you are keenly aware of macro-sociological changes

('compressed spring' analogy)! This is a great prediction that you

are making ... about it coming back to stability.

 

While I too believe the same about India, I sincerely hope it

happens too! But my guess is that it will happen more in a couple of

centuries than in decades.

 

Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

Dear ratna,

 

We had to delete the full earlier message from Krishna ....when

replying please remove the earlier messages else they get

reposted........jay

 

 

-

" Princess ratna " <rajraniran

<Ramakrishna >

Thursday, May 06, 2004 03:44

RE: [sri Ramakrishna] America: The Maya Machine

 

 

Krishna's suggestions are remarkable, except for the fact when he says that

the parents should practice Hinduism to create an atmosphere, so that the

influence f Christianity and Islam is minimized. My question is why do we

have to belittle or minimize the influence of other religions? Don't we

believe in many paths of reaching God? The parents should bring their

children up in a way that children learn to respect every faith which will

lead them to be ideal Hindus as opposed to narrow minded so called

religious people. I am open to comments on this.

 

Thank you.

 

 

> SUNIL'S COMMENTS ARE QUITE POSITIVE IN DEED. I also

> live in America whre HIndus are doing a lot of work on

...........(earlier long message from Krishna deleted).............