Guest guest Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 When we free ourselves from name and form, especially from a body — when we need no body, good or bad — then only do we escape from bondage. Eternal progression is eternal bondage; annihilation of form is to be preferred. We must get free from any body, even a " god-body " . God is the only real existence, there cannot be two. There is but One Soul, and I am That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When we free ourselves from name and form, especially from a body — when we need no body, good or bad — then only do we escape from bondage. Eternal progression is eternal bondage; annihilation of form is to be preferred. We must get free from any body, even a " god-body " . God is the only real existence, there cannot be two. There is but One Soul, and I am That. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dear List: Always enjoy Swamiji's writing and when i get a chance to read it in excerpt form such as the postings from Ananta i tend to get questions that perhaps otherwise would not surface in my mind. Maybe it is because my attention span is that much less ! in any event i would like to post questions that always invariably crop up when i read Swamiji's postings and hope that clarifications from the LIST are obtained. questions that crop up while reading the above passage are: (1) " Eternal progression is ETERNAL bondage " (blocks mine just for emphasis) i can imagine progression as being still in the state of bondage ( since till we have reached enlightenment we are in bondage) but to say that it is ETERNAL bondage is confusing. What could he have meant? (2) We need to get away from the identification with the body, then the state that Sukadeva attained was indeed the highest state. And yet in that state, one cannot really 'serve others' which according to Sri Ramakrishna who stated that as long as there are others the highest state is to ensure that they too are released even at the cost of one's own salvation. Indeed Swamiji also claimed this to be his paean How are these to be reconciled? _______________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca & page=byoa/prem & xAPID=1994 & DI=1034 & SU=http://\ hotmail.com/enca & HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Dear Jairam Let me attempt to respond to your very interesting observations from the following quote of Swami Vivekananda....jay > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > When we free ourselves from name and form, especially from a body - > when we need no body, good or bad - then only do we escape from > bondage. Eternal progression is eternal bondage; annihilation of form > is to be preferred. We must get free from any body, even a " god-body " . > God is the only real existence, there cannot be two. There is but One > Soul, and I am That. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > questions that crop up while reading the above passage are: > > (1) > " Eternal progression is ETERNAL bondage " (blocks mine just for emphasis) > i can imagine progression as being still in the state of bondage ( since > till we have reached enlightenment we are in bondage) but to say that it is > ETERNAL bondage is confusing. What could he have meant? > The idea that we continue to progress and that this progress is 'asymptotic' i.e. getting closer and closer to the goal and yet never reaching the target would mean ETERNAL progress and ETERNAL bondage (as the destination stays alusive) > (2) > We need to get away from the identification with the body, then the state > that Sukadeva attained was indeed the highest state. And yet in that state, > one cannot really 'serve others' which according to Sri Ramakrishna who > stated that as long as there are others the highest state is to ensure that > they too are released even at the cost of one's own salvation. Indeed > Swamiji also claimed this to be his paean > How are these to be reconciled? > Best reconciliation is to remember Sri Ramakrishna's saying:- As long as there is body consciousness ....as long as there is even a hint of the ego (which comes due to identification with the mind/body) make the ego a servant of God. Or in Vivekananda's words seek the salvation of others as looking for one's own salvation is identifies us with the ego. This is not mere rheoteric, it is the actual methodology. There is a third part of the quote you did not ask about which says 'free oneself even from a 'God-body'. This is saying real freedom comes only when we move from 'dvaita to 'advaita'....This is the conclusion of Hinduism. jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Namaste JaiRam 1 There is no beginning to time or it is not, so there is no end, thus change is unending. 2 Once we have lost identification of self as separate in high samadhi, if we return we retain a slight body sense. What brings us back is compassion for others who are still in ignorance and suffering and if there is no belief I am body how will it exist? So go ahead and get this samadhi and in the meantime serve. Love, Bob jairam seshadri [jairamseshadri] Sunday, June 27, 2004 1:12 PM Ramakrishna RE: [sri Ramakrishna] Vivekananda Mailing List-6/24/04 questions that crop up while reading the above passage are: (1) " Eternal progression is ETERNAL bondage What could he have meant? (2) We need to get away from the identification with the body, then the state that Sukadeva attained was indeed the highest state. And yet in that state, one cannot really 'serve others' which according to Sri Ramakrishna who stated that as long as there are others the highest state is to ensure that they too are released even at the cost of one's own salvation. Indeed Swamiji also claimed this to be his paean How are these to be reconciled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 thank you Jay...for your enlighening words! ----Original Message Follows---- " Vivekananda Centre " <vivekananda Ramakrishna <Ramakrishna > Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Vivekananda Mailing List-6/24/04 Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:48:00 +0100 Dear Jairam Let me attempt to respond to your very interesting observations from the following quote of Swami Vivekananda....jay > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > When we free ourselves from name and form, especially from a body - > when we need no body, good or bad - then only do we escape from > bondage. Eternal progression is eternal bondage; annihilation of form > is to be preferred. We must get free from any body, even a " god-body " . > God is the only real existence, there cannot be two. There is but One > Soul, and I am That. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > questions that crop up while reading the above passage are: > > (1) > " Eternal progression is ETERNAL bondage " (blocks mine just for emphasis) > i can imagine progression as being still in the state of bondage ( since > till we have reached enlightenment we are in bondage) but to say that it is > ETERNAL bondage is confusing. What could he have meant? > The idea that we continue to progress and that this progress is 'asymptotic' i.e. getting closer and closer to the goal and yet never reaching the target would mean ETERNAL progress and ETERNAL bondage (as the destination stays alusive) > (2) > We need to get away from the identification with the body, then the state > that Sukadeva attained was indeed the highest state. And yet in that state, > one cannot really 'serve others' which according to Sri Ramakrishna who > stated that as long as there are others the highest state is to ensure that > they too are released even at the cost of one's own salvation. Indeed > Swamiji also claimed this to be his paean > How are these to be reconciled? > Best reconciliation is to remember Sri Ramakrishna's saying:- As long as there is body consciousness ....as long as there is even a hint of the ego (which comes due to identification with the mind/body) make the ego a servant of God. Or in Vivekananda's words seek the salvation of others as looking for one's own salvation is identifies us with the ego. This is not mere rheoteric, it is the actual methodology. There is a third part of the quote you did not ask about which says 'free oneself even from a 'God-body'. This is saying real freedom comes only when we move from 'dvaita to 'advaita'....This is the conclusion of Hinduism. jay _______________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca & page=byoa/prem & xAPID=1994 & DI=1034 & SU=http://\ hotmail.com/enca & HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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