Francois Gautier in London

[Guest guest]

--- Vivekananda Centre <vivekananda

wrote:

Dear Jay:

I have been reading a lot of Francois Gautier's post

sin various Hindu groups. He is truly concerned about

saving Hinduism and is a staunch critic of India's

pseudo-secularism. Hindus are basically very

indifferent about their religion. We need to learn

from other religions as to how enthusiastically they

talk about their religion, although I am opposed to

vigorous conversions they are doing in India and other

parts of the world. Hindus, on the other hand, are

very passive. Additionally, those Hindus who speak in

strong terms about real secularism, oppose religious

conversions, advocate a uniform civil code for India

are all branded as fudamentalists. India is the only

country which uses revenue of Hindu temples to give to

 

churches and mosques to appease other religions. Do we

derive even one cent from other religions for our

temples? India is the only country which uses tax

payers' money to subsidize haj. But the same

government does not subsidize pilgrimage to Amarnath

or Varanasi. Is this secularism? When Pope visited

India a few years ago, he advocated massive

conversions to Christianity and stated that Jesus is

the only road to salvation. Did any Indian religious

leader have a voice to say at least one word against

conversions? When anyone talks of conversions, isn't

he/she demeaning other religions? Do Hindus have any

pride in their religin? One historian said " India was

conquered by the Indians for the British " . Similarly,

Hindus are themselves undermining their religion by

their extreme passivism. GOd must be laughing at the

Hindus by saying that " Oh HIndus, I gave you a lot of

intelligence. Why don't you use it properly to take

care of your religion rather than thinking that you

can keep quiet doing nothing and expecting me to do

everything for you? "

Dear List

>

> Francois Gautier is in London at the moment and we

> had an opportunity to hear him make a presentation

> at Brent Town Hall on Sunday. He is a very

> unassuming person and very focused in his ideas.

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear all,

 

the threat to hindus and hinduism and the poitns

raised by jay and krishan are very valid andneeds to

be pondered upon. views and suggestions are welconme

from our learned memebrs.

 

i think istead of expressing helplessness, something

shoudl be done by all. siomple things can be useful

for e.g., in every locality, street, etc., active

senior citizens like retired individuals can train

children, adults, etc. in hinusisnm, propogate the

glories of scriptures, purans, etc. these small

things, i believe, will sow a strong seed and will go

a long way in protecting hinduism. there can be other

measures which can boost hinduism and protect it.

 

i remember mr. nani palkhivala, eminent hurist, saying

that it is hinsus' country, they a re a majority and

should assert the same ; of course he did not advocate

violence or other wrong means. incindentally, i wish

to highlight that palkivala was an outstanding scholar

on hinsuism and upanishads,etc. though not a hindu by

birth. he was the president of bharatiya vidya bhavan

for a long time.

 

views are invited.

 

jay thakur, jay mahamayi, jay swamiji

 

 

chellamani

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Namo Namaha. Gayatri Ji has raised a valid point that the Hindus must do

something to stop erosion of Hindu values in life! Agreed that one can do

something externally but " Dharma " as such is an internal thing, a feeling at

your heart, a discipline in your life, very personal in nature. You may not even

realise that one in " Hindu " ! Mr Nani Palkiwalah gave his view, you may propose

yours, but the fact remains that all religions come and go according to the

desire of almighty Lord. He creates them, He preserves them and He eliminates

them as He sees fit. It is His " Karmakanda " ! We humanbeings can do very little,

if anything at all. Hinduism ia " ANANTA " , " APARA " and knowledge based, it can

not be destroyed - it is " VISALA " . How can you destroy " INFINITY " ! Hinduism nay

Sanatana Dharma may take different shapes and forms in line with the progress or

otherwise of human environment but its destruction is beyond human scope. Dear

Ma Chellamani, may God give you " ABHAYA " . May you live long to

witness Iswara's glory in everything you set out to do. May you find Peace in

your heart. May you worry no more dear Gayatri Ji.

 

 

Asis Bagchi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Asis, these are my opinions and you may want to

think about these ideas whether yu agree or not:

Yes, God is Infinite, Existence, Consciousness and

Bliss. But Hinduism is a path, a tool to accomplish

the objective of God realization. It is not infinite,

it is not indestructible. You want proof? At one

point, Afganistan was a great center of Hindu

learning. But Hindus were eventually persecuted,

tortured, driven out and killed. Valuable Hindu books

of learning were destroyed. You cant even think of

practising HInduism in Afganistan today. If Hindus had

stood up with one voice and had resisted effectively,

this would not have happened. recently, 400,000

Kashmiri Hindus were driven out of their homes, many

of them were killed. After a few years, you may not

hear about Hinduism in Kashmir. How are Christians

converting Hindus in thousands? I heard that they have

a budget of one hundred million dollars for this

purpose. Because Hindus are passive and do not bother

to come together. To-day there are many organized

efforts at undermining Hinduism both inside and

outside India. While the enemies of Hinduism may take

a long time to destroy Hinduism, the hard fact of life

is nothing is indestructible. Hinduism is getting

hammer blows now and if Hindus dont understand the

true principles of Hinduism, practise and propagate

them, a day may come when we will be told what to

worship and how to worship and receive orders from the

bosses of other religions about which path must be

pursued to reach GOd. As Lord Krishna says in

Bhagvadgeeta, We must give up our cowardice or Klaibya

in Sanskrit, work hard unitedly to preserve Hinduism

rather than rely on Karma theory. Karma theory will

work on its own. But let us not deny the existence of

free will. Let us use our resources to the best extent

possible to save Hinduism. Centers like Vivekananda

Center in London are doing excellent work in educating

people about the genuine principles of Hinduism and we

need more centres like that to wake up Hindus all over

India.

--- Asis Bagchi <jobothobo wrote:

>

>

> Dear all,

> Namo Namaha. Gayatri Ji has raised a valid point

> that the Hindus must do something to stop erosion of

> Hindu values in life! >

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna,

Namo Namaha. May God give you Peace in abundance. You are free to worship the

God of your choice in Hinduism. Branding in the name of religion is not

Hinduism. Conversion is for the feeble hearted, why do you need millions of

others of the same " Brand " or " Group " to discipline your life and purify your

soul! " Eka meba hi Bhutatma, vutey vutey praliyotey... " . Manusya jati is one,

and manusya dharma is one too...... different paths lead to the same " Paramatman

Brahma " . See the ocean and not the ripples, fix your eyes on " Mahaprabhu " and do

your tasks without thinking about its results. If one practices " Adharma " why

should I change my " Dharma " ? Ask this question and pacify yourself in the name

of the greatest religion on Earth based on Knowledge. Confrontation, tit for

tat,eye for an eye etc are not regarded to be highly successful paths to

influence people. The path of love ultimately wins. May be slow and painful but

that is the golden rule of life. You must give up the " Asurabhava "

and practice to develop " Devabhava " with your " Buddhi " .

Distressing news will surely upset you and me and at often times make us angry

because we do not love ourselves, because we do not love God. Try to see God all

around you " Jo mung pasyati sarbatra sarvam cha mayee pasyatee..... " you must

" hiss " but never bite!!! Krishna ji you have valid points but you are an

insignificant entity with respect to God almighty who is so vast. If He chooses

He will dissolve something in preference to something else. Try not to fight

against " Sarveswar " . Love him always, ask him why other religions are able to

convert so called Hindus? Quality and Quantity considering we prefer " QUALITY " ;

it may be so that GOD prefers Quality too (real devotee) and want that jivatma

to reach Him, path is secondary!! Peripheral activities, like " Tilak " , " Chandan " ,

" Chanting Mantras " and outwardly things hardly matter while you are seriously

immersed in GOD. Offer love, embrace everyone with divine love, then no one will

leave you. Hinduism will stay for ever, it has

always been there. I think we must be more devoted to the core philosophy of

Hinduism. Hinduism has two sides : one side is " ever changing " and another side

is " never changine " : adaptation of this " never changing side " tend to confuse

some but in essence it stays unadulterated. Fear nor Krishnaji, " Ma Sucha " . May

God bless you Sriman Krishna Venkataraman. My heartfelt Namaskar to you. Take

care.

 

Asis Bagchi

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Sri Bagchi:

I agree that everyone has the right to approach God in

 

whatever way he or she likes. That is the reason for

the existence of various religions. But some religons

do not recognize the right of people to worship the

Lord in their own way and therefore, they insist that

there is only one way to reach God, that is , their

way and all other paths lead to nowhere. If this

religious intolerance is tolerated, your right to

practise religion is eliminated. It is the duty of

everyone to preserve and protect Dharma. I don't mean

just religion when I mention Dharma. In sanskrit,

Dharma is defined as: Dhaaryate Anena iti Dharmah.

That which sustains life, that which sustains values

is Dharma. So we are all duty-bound to protect and

preserve our Dharma. I do not advocate intolerance but

I dont advocate passivity either. I don't agree with

people who feel that they don't have to do any thing

since Hinduism is indestructible. Except pure

consciousness, which is Sat, Chit and Ananda,

everything is destructible. Let us not mix fate and

free will. If you believe one hundred per cent in

fate, then from this second, you must stop doing every

thing and leave everything to the Great Lord, even

your breathing! But if you accept the existence of

free will, then you should act by using the god given

body, mind and intellect to make the most reasonable

decisions, act and then leave the effect of your

actions to the great Lord. Karma Yoga does not mean

inactivity but it is vigorous activity- physical,

mental, intellectual, ethical and spiritual with

detachment to the results of our activities. We all

must do our part in learning the great principles of

Hinduism and propagate them. If the principles are not

propagated, they cannot be preserved either. If Lord

Krishna had not encouraged Pandavas to fight,Kauravas

would have taken over and Adarma would have reigned

and so, He decided that Kauravas needed a lesson in

Dharma. Kamsa, Krishna's uncle and Shishupal, another

wicked king, needed a big lesson in Dharma and Krishna

taught them the lesson. So fighting for a noble cause

is not not only our right, it is absoutely essential.

So let us use all the intellectual, spiritual and

other resources to keep the torch of spirituality

burning forever.

 

Om shanti.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Om Namah Sivaya

 

I agree with Gayatri and Krishna in their views.

 

The early part of 19th century was a dark period for

the Hindus in Sri Lanka. Under alien British rule,

there was the danger to their religious beliefs.

During this crucial period, Sri Arumuga Navalar

(1822-1879), the champion of Hinduism appeared on the

scene. The Christian missionaries were converting the

Hindus to Christianity by providing education,

employment and concessions. There was a real danger of

the preponderant majority of the Hindus to fall victim

to these inducements and attractions, and eventually,

losing their Hindu identity. In fact they managed to

convert more than 50 % of Hindus. It was left to Sri

Arumuga Navalar to awaken the consciousness of the

Hindus and to make them aware of this drift.

 

Sri Arumuga Navalar carried forward his arduous task

of protecting the Hindu religion from the onslaught of

Christian missionaries. He gave public discourse and

lectures wrote books on Hinduism and its philosophy.

He was well versed in English and Sanskrit, gained

good knowledge of Christian theology and Vedic

literature. This helped him to expose the fallacy of

the preaching of the Christian priests. He issued

millions of free leaflets in the way of criticisms to

counter the false propaganda of the Christian

missionaries, both in Srilanka and Tamil Nadu in

India. He united Hindus and collected fund to built

many Hindu Schools to counter attack Christian

missionary schools. He translated Bible form English

to Tamil and freely distributed to those converted

Christians together with books on Hinduism and its

philosophy, this made those converted people ashamed

for leaving a great Spiritual religion for MONEY, and

most of them (at least 95%) went back to Hinduism. He

imposed Hinduism as a compulsory subject in all Hindu

schools.

 

Even today a small number of unethical conversions to

Christianity taking place in SriLanka, however

recently both Hindus and Buddhist united together and

convinced the government to put a ban on unethical

conversion. Despite this some Christian missionaries

operating illegally in village areas, but Hindus in

abroad fund various projects in the village areas

(offer financial support, free education, etc) to make

it extremely difficult for Christian missionary to

convert Hindus. Sri Ramakrishna Mission is also doing

an excellent job in some parts of Sri Lanka to

preserve our religion.

 

Krishna, you may be pleased to know that in Tamil Nadu

in India, Ramakrishna Mission/ Vivekananda schools are

increasing rapidly; they have recently taken over

Christian missionary schools in the standard of

education. With the influence of Kanchi Sankaracharya,

the State of Tamil Nada imposed a ban on unethical

conversion and also Hindu temples must provide free

meals to poor people at least once a month. I wished

the other states in India follow the same.

 

We should pay our contribution to preserve our

religion, according to our capacity. We could at least

back up organisations which promote hindu values

financially.

 

Selva

 

 

 

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Sri Ramakrishnaya Namah

Vivekananda Centre London

http://www.vivekananda.co.uk