Guest guest Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Dear Group Members, I would like to get some feedback from members of this list on the topic of Western people and Hinduism. I should explain that for many years I have been studying Hinduism along with other paths, and seeking to put into practice what I am learning, albiet imperfectly.One says Japa, seeks to focus on God and the Mother in a spirit of devotion etc. However, I don't feel like a 'Hindu'! I wonder to what extent it is possible for one not born into Hinduism to truly assimilate its spirit and practice? And is it either neccessary or desirable to do so? It could be said that as westerners born into the Christian tradition that that is where one's spiritual roots are - one can learn from other religions, expand one's spiritual horizons, but the thing will be more an extension of one's native spirituality than a conversion to 'another' path. The fact that Thakur practised Christian and Muslim ways of realization might perhaps lend some credence to this view. Or - is there really only one path even though the outward forms may vary.? Or a different path for everyone? If it is thought that there is something to be gained for westerners in 'converting' to hinduism, then how can this actually be accomplished? A certain type of Hindu mentality seens to say that one must be born a Hindu, one cannot become one. I should add that I think myself that a flexible mind and a kind of openess are all that is really required, but I look forward with interest to reading your thoughts on this matter. Love, Kalidas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Dear Kalidas, How did you get your name? I think you are right. If you are sincere along the way the way will come. Love, Bob kalidas1957 [cintamani] Sunday, July 18, 2004 11:11 AM Ramakrishna [sri Ramakrishna] Westerners and Hinduism I think myself that a flexible mind and a kind of openess are all that is really required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Dear Kalidas, --- kalidas1957 <cintamani wrote: > Dear Group Members, > > I would like to get some feedback from members of > this list on the > topic of Western people and Hinduism. snip > However, I don't feel like a 'Hindu'! I wonder to > what extent it is > possible for one not born into Hinduism to truly > assimilate its > spirit and practice? Hinduism is a vast and sometimes contradictory body of knowledge, ceremony, and practice. How much of it can one person assimilate? > And is it either neccessary or > desirable to do > so? I don't think so. > Or - is there really only one path even though the > outward forms may > vary.? Or a different path for everyone? There is only your own path. > If it is thought that there is something to be > gained for westerners > in 'converting' to hinduism, then how can this > actually be > accomplished? A certain type of Hindu mentality > seens to say that > one must be born a Hindu, one cannot become one. I don't believe that westerners can " become " Hindus. It seems to me that one must be born a Hindu. The four yogas seem to be the most efficacious path to the actual experience of our oneness with Brahman, Self, God, Atman, or whatever you wish to call IT. It seems to me that most Hindus do not practice any of the yogas. They have some reverence for the gods and they go to the temple for darshan and that's about it. I believe that for most westerners who have some attraction or devotion to Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda that we should practice the yogas and not worry about whether we are Hindus or not. If you are a Bhakta and practice devotion for your Ishta, your actual methods might be influenced by Hinduism; but that doesn't mean that you are a Hindu. Neither does it mean that you have to be a Hindu. Is God a Hindu? Warmest regards to all. michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Dear Michael, One can absorb the spirit and practices of any religion if one is spiritually motivated. The path of God is the same, no matter how you move, the eventual summit is the same. In that respect the name or the outwardly practices are not all that important. The aim of life in human form is to reach God, to live for Him, to praise Him, to do His work and to glorify His name, to see Him and Him alone in everything around you. Incidents, happenings, activities you see are all there to happen anyway, and you are a spectator, a silent witness. You think you do but you can hardly do anything without divine intervention and approval. Not a single " leaf " will fall from a branch of a tree without God willing! Such is His power. A really spiritual person is an undefinable spirit, his /her human senses, his/her generosity, his/her way of doing things has certain kind of universality. He/she is the embodiment of Maya, Daya, Karuna, Kshama, Prema. He/she is eternally blissful. Yes a westerner could be a true Hindu in spirit and action if he/she chooses to be so. God meets every aspirant with favour and grants to each his hearts desire. He is " Kalpataru " .. Religions are just ways of worshipping God. There are variety of ways in which we may approach the Supreme. The paths we follow are aids to help us to become sincerely conscious of our deepest selves. Local conditions, geographical locations, different concepts, various ways and approaches, practices, adaptations, colourings, they are though necessary, only add flavours. All manifastations belong to the same Supreme. Yes and yes again that a westerner can be a true Hindu if he wants to travel and tread along that chosen path. The only way to win God's love is by faith and devotion. God is impartial force. Ananta and Apara is His " Mohima " . May He bless you. Om tat sat. Asis Bagchi Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 " " " It seems to me that most Hindus do not practice any of the yogas. They have some reverence for the gods and they go to the temple for darshan and that's about it. " " " dear michael in bhagawad geetha srikrishna says that four kinds of devotees worship HIM, arha arhaarthi jignaasu gnaani artha : this section of bhaktas worship HIM for the sake of their worldly pains, they find some solution by worshiping him. like to get rid of their ever lasting pains, some diseases etc arthaarthi: this section of bhaktas(devotees) worship him for worldly pleasures,they do some kind of business like offering him some money(in their minds, stating if i get this much, i will devote some thing to YOU). jignaasu: this kind of devotees are the most of our group members are. they want to know who is god, what is it why is it etc...they want to know the entire gist. they reach their goal(??) in this way gnaani: according to krishna, this kind of devotees are supreme and HE likes them much for the reason that they know HIM, there is no duality between them and HIM so my sincere request is, my dearest brothers and sisters, never judge is the devotee's path is right or wrong? it is very very personal for one self to follow his own path. his past karmic deeds urges him to select his own path to reach HIM. that is the reason why thakur never started his own path/religion/section to reach HIM.pls try to remember thakurs example of calling water by different names. all religions paths and sections are true and they are just PATHS.they them selves are not reality.so doing business in this regard (like many christian missionaries are doing business in the name of jesus the christ in many indian states) is not acceptable human seva rather it is trick to increase christian population to gain power out of that. and this is applicable to hindus who wish to do the same thing to westners by these methods. that is why swamiji never converted any american to hinduism but he said the ultimate truth to every one and let them to decide to accept it or not. so every person should be given his own religious freedom to select his own path. it is false that if one born as a brahmin/hindu, he will easily reach HIM and for other caste/religion born it is not?? so please correct me if any thing wrong in what i said. jai thakur narendra prasad ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Discussing hinduism,or any other religious sistem,we shoudn't forget that these are only different paths,open doors ,which help us go " beyond " .Getting involved,obcessed in ceremonies and rituals may turn us far away , we may " slide " in completely different direction and forget our final goal-the realisation of Brahman(Spirit). love-mihaela kalidas1957 <cintamani wrote: Dear Group Members, I would like to get some feedback from members of this list on the topic of Western people and Hinduism. I should explain that for many years I have been studying Hinduism along with other paths, and seeking to put into practice what I am learning, albiet imperfectly.One says Japa, seeks to focus on God and the Mother in a spirit of devotion etc. However, I don't feel like a 'Hindu'! I wonder to what extent it is possible for one not born into Hinduism to truly assimilate its spirit and practice? And is it either neccessary or desirable to do so? It could be said that as westerners born into the Christian tradition that that is where one's spiritual roots are - one can learn from other religions, expand one's spiritual horizons, but the thing will be more an extension of one's native spirituality than a conversion to 'another' path. The fact that Thakur practised Christian and Muslim ways of realization might perhaps lend some credence to this view. Or - is there really only one path even though the outward forms may vary.? Or a different path for everyone? If it is thought that there is something to be gained for westerners in 'converting' to hinduism, then how can this actually be accomplished? A certain type of Hindu mentality seens to say that one must be born a Hindu, one cannot become one. I should add that I think myself that a flexible mind and a kind of openess are all that is really required, but I look forward with interest to reading your thoughts on this matter. Love, Kalidas. Sri Ramakrishnaya Namah Vivekananda Centre London http://www.vivekananda.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Namaste Hinduism is not just ritual anymore than Yoga means just physical postures. Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma which means the way to realize what is eternal. For each of us there is a unique path, when we see differences in each other it is because we have not yet found that which is the same. Love, Bob mihaela danailova [mihaela_nha] Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:59 AM Ramakrishna Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Westerners and Hinduism Discussing hinduism,or any other religious sistem,we shoudn't forget that these are only different paths,open doors ,which help us go " beyond " .Getting involved,obcessed in ceremonies and rituals may turn us far away , we may " slide " in completely different direction and forget our final goal-the realisation of Brahman(Spirit). love-mihaela kalidas1957 <cintamani wrote: Dear Group Members, I would like to get some feedback from members of this list on the topic of Western people and Hinduism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 We need to distinguish Religion from Spirituality. Religion offers various rules, procedures, ceremonies, rituals etc. so that a common man can worship and pray to God in different ways. In this respect, every religion is different since every religion offers different methods of worship, has different rules to pray, and so on. Religion is like the outward shell and not the kernel. Spirituality has got to do with the inner personality of human beings. A person can be very religious- may not eat meat, may worship God three times a day,wear sacred ash on his forehead, wear ascetic robe( ochre robe) but may not be spiritual at all. There are very religious crooks in the world; there are religious terrorists in the world. We need to go beyond all religions to realize the true self and witness everything as " Sakshi " . For one who is spiritual, the question of which religion is inferior or superior to other religions does not arise at all, since he is no longer in the elementary school, but he has become a master, one who has mastered spirituality. Religion in other words, is like going to elementary school and we cant stay there forever because we love elemenary school very much and it is too simple. Another point is, all religions are not the same and cannot be the same. All paths to God cannot be the same, although the goal may be the same. I dont think we can simply say that Hinduism is the same as Islam or Christianity. --- Asis Bagchi <jobothobo wrote: > > > Dear Michael, > One can absorb the spirit and practices of any > religion if one is spiritually motivated. ===== Incredibly low long distance phone rate: 4.5 cents pm! go to:http://www.ldpcphonemodem.cjb.net Need extra cash? Click on:www.theexplodingbusiness.cjb.net Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Ramakrishna , narendra prasad <digital_brahma> wrote: > so my sincere request is, my dearest brothers and sisters, never judge is the devotee's path is right or wrong? it is very very personal for one self to follow his own path. his past karmic deeds urges him to select his own path to reach HIM. Dear Narendra Prasad and everyone, It certainly was not my intention to judge anyone or anything. My intent was to simply state that for most persons, whether they be westerners or Hindus or whatever, it takes an extraordinary effort to make spiritual progress. In the west many so-called Christian persons are very lukewarm about their religion. I believe that most persons in the U.S. are not really religious at all. I am not judging them. Frankly, I don't care whether a person of any country is religious or not. I myself am not religious. But look at the extreme EFFORT that Thakur made during his sadhanas. Look at the extreme spiritual efforts that Swami Vivekananda made in his lifetime. It is well known that many of the greatest figures of Hindu spirituality made superhuman efforts to achieve God realization. This is all that I meant. Warmest regards, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Ramakrishna , " Michael Bowes " <rmichaelbowes> wrote: > > But look at the extreme EFFORT that Thakur made during his > sadhanas. Look at the extreme spiritual efforts that Swami > Vivekananda made in his lifetime. It is well known that many of the > greatest figures of Hindu spirituality made superhuman efforts to > achieve God realization. This is all that I meant. > > Warmest regards, > > michael Namaste Michael I think there may be a misunderstanding here. None of the saints above made 'extreme efforts' though to an outsider it may appear so! They were in their natural state effortlessly and and all that you think as 'they did' just happened as divinity manifested itself in a ego-less body mind equipment Many pranams to all beloved brothers and sisters Sridhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 << I think there may be a misunderstanding here. None of the saints above made 'extreme efforts' though to an outsider it may appear so! They were in their natural state effortlessly and all that you think as 'they did' just happened as divinity manifested itself in a ego-less body mind equipment >> Forgive me, Sridhar, but I just don't think that's the case. While they may have been more-or-less effortlessly abiding in the natural state by the time they became known to us, I seriously doubt that they began life that way or lived a significant portion of their youth as fully-enlightened beings (whatever that is). If you've got a human body, you've got a human ego, period, regardless of how refined you've trained it to be, and that training takes great effort and constant vigilance. I know it's the custom in much of Hindu spirituality to regard saints as somehow more-than-human and completely egoless, but that view is more in the nature of a romanticized and devotional convention than an accurate portrayal of the actual condition of enlightenment. It is also fuel for aspirants, especially Western ones, to be hypercritical of themselves in a way that hampers their own spiritual development. Thanks for listening. Hafizullah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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