Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I have heard that the Ramakrishna Order still enforces age discrimination, as it does not accpt new monks over 35 (or thereabouts). First, this seems outdated, gievn greater longevity in the West and India. Secondly, it runs against the Hindu tradition whereby a householder would be able to take ascetic vows later in life. Thirdly, age discrimination is worldly and arbitrary and has no more to do with spirituality than discrimination on grounds of race or sexual orientation. By continuing this practice, the Ramakrishna Order is missing out on a great deal of practical wisdom, skill, compassion and positive influences. Is it possible that such barriers could be recognised as negative energy and them be put to one side? Best Wishes, Aidan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Ramakrishna , " Aidan Rankin " <aidanr@d...> wrote: > I have heard that the Ramakrishna Order still enforces age discrimination, as it does not accpt new monks over 35 (or thereabouts). First, this seems outdated, gievn greater longevity in the West and India. Secondly, it runs against the Hindu tradition whereby a householder would be able to take ascetic vows later in life. Thirdly, age discrimination is worldly and arbitrary and has no more to do with spirituality than discrimination on grounds of race or sexual orientation. By continuing this practice, the Ramakrishna Order is missing out on a great deal of practical wisdom, skill, compassion and positive influences. > > Is it possible that such barriers could be recognised as negative energy and them be put to one side? > > Best Wishes, > > Aidan Let me explain the age restrictions for being a monk etc that is practised in many Orders in India (I was not aware of it being in effect in the Ramakrishna Order). To live a monk's life, in Sw Vivekananda's words, is to live on the razor's edge. It is a constant battle against worldly temptation; to lose even ONCE is to start all over again, and usually requires DOUBLE the effort every time you fall down. So, ability to put effort and commitment are two key requirements for this life. Let's examine these requirements. ABILITY TO PUT EFFORT Tremendous spiritual disciplines need to be performed with alcrity and regularity, besides the various tests the Guru will place on you. You need a 'prana' or vitality for this endeavour. Hence the age-limit restrction; we all know how the metabolism of a wordly person reduces in or near mid-life. COMMITMENT Forget spiritual life; in order to succeed in material life, you need to start with a goal in life early on and stick to it. Then the success is probable. If you decide the goal late in life, then the chances are that the current conditioning of your life may run counter to your goal (any material goal) and you may find it an extremely uphill task to reach there. If that is the case with material goals, you can forget spiritual life, whose goals are extremely subtle and difficult. The word 'conditioning' can be defined as 'samskara' and is evaluated for each of us by our 'prarabhdha karma'. That conditioning is a key point for 'taking it easy after 35, and not rushing in for the whole deal'. Hence the age restrictions are for our benefit only, not for the Orders' benefit. Do not take the rule to be discriminatory in any way... it is more practical than discriminatory. Here is an example. I know of a man (my friend's paternal uncle) who was accepted as a monk-like disciple at age 55 by a guru in Dehradun, India. This guru had similar restrictions, but he made an exception here. That is because my uncle was doing Gayatri mantra puja for 8-10 hrs every day for the past 10 years, and before that, when he was actively in wordly service, he could still do it atleast 2 hrs or so every day. His 'prarabhdha karma' then easily gave him the commitment for the guru's tutelage, hence the exception. A big commentary can be written on this point, but I think the essence of it has been expressed here. Hope this helps. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 If a person has worldly experiences for a long time and then becomes a monk, the probability that he will be a second rate monk is high. The longevity is not more than a hundred years and the accepted number was a hundred in ancient India. It is not age discrimination. It is just sound common sense. One has rules so that the quality does not suffer. If the order accepted indiscriminately not only will it be bad for the order but for those that draw from it. Age discrimination is not worldly and arbitrary. It is enforced in every work place. One does not hire a 65 year old soldier to fight in the front line however there may be exceptions and one may form a good army of 65 to 70 year olds but in general it is not liklely. One goes by the general and not the specific. There are I am sure institutions where monks and nuns can hang around together, old monks and nuns are accepted and can purchase their way in. One may go there but the quality there is not likely to be as good as a traditional order with some control. Suresh --- Aidan Rankin <aidanr wrote: > I have heard that the Ramakrishna Order still > enforces age discrimination, as it does not accpt > new monks over 35 (or thereabouts). First, this > seems outdated, gievn greater longevity in the West > and India. Secondly, it runs against the Hindu > tradition whereby a householder would be able to > take ascetic vows later in life. Thirdly, age > discrimination is worldly and arbitrary and has no > more to do with spirituality than discrimination on > grounds of race or sexual orientation. By > continuing this practice, the Ramakrishna Order is > missing out on a great deal of practical wisdom, > skill, compassion and positive influences. > > Is it possible that such barriers could be > recognised as negative energy and them be put to one > side? > > Best Wishes, > > Aidan > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Aidan Rankin [aidanr] Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:15 AM Ramakrishna Re: [sri Ramakrishna] Age discrimination in Ramakrishna Order I have heard that the Ramakrishna Order still enforces age discrimination, as it does not accpt new monks over 35 (or thereabouts). First, this seems outdated, gievn greater longevity in the West and India. Secondly, it runs against the Hindu tradition whereby a householder would be able to take ascetic vows later in life. Thirdly, age discrimination is worldly and arbitrary and has no more to do with spirituality than discrimination on grounds of race or sexual orientation. By continuing this practice, the Ramakrishna Order is missing out on a great deal of practical wisdom, skill, compassion and positive influences. Namaste, While that is the general practice the order does make exceptions. They are perhaps antiquated in some ways, such as age limitations and also the integration of women into a universal environment, but they are not limited in their love of service and dedication to realization. If you sincerely want to join the order there will be a way. Love, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Aiden, It seems that you are making a very irrational conclusion about Ramakrishna Order. Discrimination is a very powerful word in today's world and you should use it only after careful consideration and being absolutely sure. Here is my suggestion to you to understand the situation. 1. If someone wants to become a monk, why do you need Ramakrishna Order? Do it yourself. Renounce everything. Why attach to anything or any Order? Longivity has nothing to do with being a monk. Everyone knows that the golden years of human life is between 18 and 30. I think 35 itself is too late to become a monk. You are welcome to become a monk at 35 or any age, just do it your own. I think the main aim is to renounce and not joining an Order! 2. The Hindu tradition of ascetic vows (Sanyasa) does not require to join any Order. The tradition is 5000 years older than Ramakrishna Order. Again, my point is why Ramakrishna Order is to blame for someone wanting to lead an ascetic life in their ripe years? 3. Being a monk is NOT for everyone. It is only for an extremely limited number of people. It is a very difficult life for a person who is not totally motivated from an early age. In order to choose the right kind of people for this extreme lifestyle Ramakrishna Order has to set very strict conditions for joining. The monks of the RKM Order must be the chosen few to keep up the quality of Spiritual and Service to Humankind they are known for. It would not serve the purpose for common people who go through the emotional roller coaster of 'feeling spiritual' for a few days to join the Order. That does not mean that the common people have no hope. Ramakrishna showed in his life how one can be a monk and a hoseholder. Ramakrishna has said a thousand times to renounce internally and need not be outwardly. We need to support the excellent work Ramakrishna Mission is doing throughout the world quietly. Amit Chatterjee Livonia,Michigan, USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 dear all, it was interesting to read about the age discrimination topic. all the rejoinders are valid and sensible. just to add a few thoughts, let us look at the mundane world. the corporate world wants only persons either below or above certain age group for certain positions. mostly it is unlikely to jave someone as CEO at 20 or a junior clerk as a fresh induction at 50 !! It is another matter that someone remains a junior clerk throughout his life !!! coming to spiritual and religious organisations, majority of them have age restrictions. Sankara Matams at kanchi, sringeri, etc. are evne more rigid and absorb young boys and train them. Same goes with raghavendra matts. in fact the age 35 limit of RKM is quite generous. we all in normal world are guided by prejudices, rigid views and ways and living and habits. given that itself being very difficlut to change, what to talk of becoming a monk very late in life !!! as brother amit mukerji beutifully says, why RKM, a man can become amonk just be renouncing, if he can. every organisation, whether commercial or others, within rational limits, has these guideliens for its own better functioning and hence we should respect and appreciate the rationale behind such guideliens. jay ramakrishna, chellamani a.r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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